Will health & safety prove to be the ultimate culprit for the deaths at Grenfell?.........

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:43 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:36 PM

 

Yep - especially since the responsibility fire inspection lies with the Royal Tory Borough who designed, built and approved Grenfell as well.

Lets see you blame Corbyn for that one *-)

 

So was it designed and built differently to those built by Labour councils? :-| .........

 

 

 

 

Apparently yes

Now how are you going to blame Corbyn for the Royal Tory Borough's fire inspections :D

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-05-31 4:00 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:43 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:36 PM

 

Yep - especially since the responsibility fire inspection lies with the Royal Tory Borough who designed, built and approved Grenfell as well.

Lets see you blame Corbyn for that one *-)

 

So was it designed and built differently to those built by Labour councils? :-| .........

 

 

 

 

Apparently yes

Now how are you going to blame Corbyn for the Royal Tory Borough's fire inspections :D

 

 

Really......in 1972 ? 8-) ........No doubt you can elaborate? ;-) ...........

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

 

Because loony lefty folk like you are apologists for illegal immigrants *-) ........

 

 

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:06 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 4:00 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:43 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:36 PM

 

Yep - especially since the responsibility fire inspection lies with the Royal Tory Borough who designed, built and approved Grenfell as well.

Lets see you blame Corbyn for that one *-)

 

So was it designed and built differently to those built by Labour councils? :-| .........

 

 

 

 

Apparently yes

Now how are you going to blame Corbyn for the Royal Tory Borough's fire inspections :D

 

 

Really......in 1972 ? 8-) ........No doubt you can elaborate? ;-) ...........

 

 

Errrrr ... Hmmmm ... Ohhhhhh .... Errrr ... Give me a minute .... Oh yeah it was Jimmy Savilles fault ... Somehow ... Probably .... The Queens ... Errr

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:15 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

 

Because loony lefty folk like you are apologists for illegal immigrants *-) ........

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that when the Royal Tory Borough is so careless as to pay over £100k claim without checking claimants identity or even whether their aleged council flat actually existed, that someone is going to put in false claims, and if it wasn't these illegal immigrants it would have been someone else?

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-05-31 8:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:15 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

 

Because loony lefty folk like you are apologists for illegal immigrants *-) ........

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that when the Royal Tory Borough is so careless as to pay over £100k claim without checking claimants identity or even whether their aleged council flat actually existed, that someone is going to put in false claims, and if it wasn't these illegal immigrants it would have been someone else?

 

Maybe they got away with it because folk like you turned a disaster into a weapon to beat the Tories with *-) ........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 8:45 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 8:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:15 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

 

Because loony lefty folk like you are apologists for illegal immigrants *-) ........

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that when the Royal Tory Borough is so careless as to pay over £100k claim without checking claimants identity or even whether their aleged council flat actually existed, that someone is going to put in false claims, and if it wasn't these illegal immigrants it would have been someone else?

 

Maybe they got away with it because folk like you turned a disaster into a weapon to beat the Tories with *-) ........

 

 

Even if that were true how does it stop the Royal Tory Borough from doing the most basic checks - identity of claimant and alleged council flat - before paying out over £100K of our money?

 

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-05-31 9:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 8:45 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 8:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:15 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

 

Because loony lefty folk like you are apologists for illegal immigrants *-) ........

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that when the Royal Tory Borough is so careless as to pay over £100k claim without checking claimants identity or even whether their aleged council flat actually existed, that someone is going to put in false claims, and if it wasn't these illegal immigrants it would have been someone else?

 

Maybe they got away with it because folk like you turned a disaster into a weapon to beat the Tories with *-) ........

 

 

Even if that were true how does it stop the Royal Tory Borough from doing the most basic checks - identity of claimant and alleged council flat - before paying out over £100K of our money?

 

Maybe its because the scumbags were experts fraudsters *-) ........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:32 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 9:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 8:45 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 8:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:15 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

 

Because loony lefty folk like you are apologists for illegal immigrants *-) ........

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that when the Royal Tory Borough is so careless as to pay over £100k claim without checking claimants identity or even whether their aleged council flat actually existed, that someone is going to put in false claims, and if it wasn't these illegal immigrants it would have been someone else?

 

Maybe they got away with it because folk like you turned a disaster into a weapon to beat the Tories with *-) ........

 

 

Even if that were true how does it stop the Royal Tory Borough from doing the most basic checks - identity of claimant and alleged council flat - before paying out over £100K of our money?

 

Maybe its because the scumbags were experts fraudsters *-) ........

 

 

Or maybe its because thye Royal Tory Borough didn't even check their own records to see whether the alleged flat existed?

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-05-31 9:37 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:32 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 9:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 8:45 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 8:26 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:15 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:57 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:37 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:32 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:49 AM

Aaah so it's now the Royal Tory Boroughs fault that illegal immigrants have fleeced the taxpayer? 8-) .......

Whose fault is it illegal immigrants in the Royal Tory Borough have been ALLOWED to fleece the taxpayer *-)

 

Folk like Corbyn and you >:-) .........

 

 

Go on then. What Mad Hatter logic puts the responsibility for checking Royal Tory Borough benefit claims on Corbyn and Me :D

 

Because loony lefty folk like you are apologists for illegal immigrants *-) ........

 

 

 

 

Can't you see that when the Royal Tory Borough is so careless as to pay over £100k claim without checking claimants identity or even whether their aleged council flat actually existed, that someone is going to put in false claims, and if it wasn't these illegal immigrants it would have been someone else?

 

Maybe they got away with it because folk like you turned a disaster into a weapon to beat the Tories with *-) ........

 

 

Even if that were true how does it stop the Royal Tory Borough from doing the most basic checks - identity of claimant and alleged council flat - before paying out over £100K of our money?

 

Maybe its because the scumbags were experts fraudsters *-) ........

 

 

Or maybe its because thye Royal Tory Borough didn't even check their own records to see whether the alleged flat existed?

 

Prolly because they were trying to cope with unique a disaster *-) ........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:55 PM

 

Prolly because they were trying to cope with unique a disaster *-) ........

 

Front line aid was largely left to volunteers and charities, at least in the early stages.

Surely the least the Royal Tory Borough could have done is tried to ensure the aid Theresa May took from poorer areas to send to them went to the right people?

How long would it take a council to check whether one of their own council flats existed?

The fact they didn't even bother shows their breathtaking carelessness that caused the tragedy :-(

Which has proven to be the ultimate culprit for the deaths at Grenfell >:-)

[John52]

antony1969 - 2018-05-31 4:21 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 4:06 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 4:00 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 3:43 PM

 

John52 - 2018-05-31 3:36 PM

 

Yep - especially since the responsibility fire inspection lies with the Royal Tory Borough who designed, built and approved Grenfell as well.

Lets see you blame Corbyn for that one *-)

 

So was it designed and built differently to those built by Labour councils? :-| .........

 

 

 

 

Apparently yes

Now how are you going to blame Corbyn for the Royal Tory Borough's fire inspections :D

 

 

Really......in 1972 ? 8-) ........No doubt you can elaborate? ;-) ...........

 

 

Errrrr ... Hmmmm ... Ohhhhhh .... Errrr ... Give me a minute .... Oh yeah it was Jimmy Savilles fault ... Somehow ... Probably .... The Queens ... Errr

 

You said that, not me.

But since Grenfell was Tory controlled from start to finish, how can anyone point out its faults without you accusing them of being political?

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-06-01 6:56 AM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:55 PM

 

Prolly because they were trying to cope with unique a disaster *-) ........

 

Front line aid was largely left to volunteers and charities, at least in the early stages.

Surely the least the Royal Tory Borough could have done is tried to ensure the aid Theresa May took from poorer areas to send to them went to the right people?

How long would it take a council to check whether one of their own council flats existed?

The fact they didn't even bother shows their breathtaking carelessness that caused the tragedy :-(

Which has proven to be the ultimate culprit for the deaths at Grenfell >:-)

 

So who's responsible for putting the same cladding on tower blocks in Labour run councils? *-) .........

 

 

[W3526602]

<<< How long would it take a council to check whether one of their own council flats existed? >>>

 

Hi,

 

Probably off-topic, but a few years ago, the media reported that the residents of an an entire street in London had claimed adverse possession on their council owned houses ... millions of pounds worth of properties.

 

As far as I could make out, the borough boundaries had changed, and the new landlords (the council) did not realise that they should start collecting rent. It must be true ... it was in the papers.

 

Question ... do councils have a laid-down procedure to follow when they aquire properties due to a boundary change? Or is it one of those things that you don't think about until it happens ... and if it's not in your job decription ...?.

 

As for apportioning blame for the cladding on Grenfell Tower, surely with a contract that size, the architects would have sought advice from the cladding manufactures. In fact, I'd be surprised if the manufacturers were not clamouring to be involved. I'm guessing that the manufacturers produced the necessary conformity documents ... but would those documents have been specific to the way the cladding was used on Grenfell Tower.

 

It says on this forum that Kensington is the richest borough, but I assume that the residents of Grenfell Tower do not consider themselves to be rich. ??? Yet they do not want to be moved to different boroughs. Kensington Council must be doing something right.

 

Just to bring a smile to your faces (still off topic). You have all seen pictures of the "Giant Cheese Grater" in Swansea (aka DVLA). There are 16 stories, with a central "core" housing the stairs, lift shafts, and toilet facilities. The "gents" each have a row of four urinals ... but only those at the ends of the rows get used. I reckon the architect responsible was either a dwalf or a lady. At face height, hung on the wall, over the two central urinals, are huge cisterns ... preventing us blokes standing close enough to the porcelain.

 

DVLC was once subject of a terrorist attack ... somebody super-glued all the lift UP buttons on the ground floor.

 

602

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-06-01 8:45 AM

 

John52 - 2018-06-01 6:56 AM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:55 PM

 

Prolly because they were trying to cope with unique a disaster *-) ........

 

Front line aid was largely left to volunteers and charities, at least in the early stages.

Surely the least the Royal Tory Borough could have done is tried to ensure the aid Theresa May took from poorer areas to send to them went to the right people?

How long would it take a council to check whether one of their own council flats existed?

The fact they didn't even bother shows their breathtaking carelessness that caused the tragedy :-(

Which has proven to be the ultimate culprit for the deaths at Grenfell >:-)

 

So who's responsible for putting the same cladding on tower blocks in Labour run councils? *-) .........

 

 

Even if its the same cladding thats only one factor

 

[John52]

W3526602 - 2018-06-01 9:03 AM

As far as I could make out, the borough boundaries had changed, and the new landlords (the council) did not realise that they should start collecting rent. It must be true ... it was in the papers.

Yes but Grenfell Tower was well inside the boundary and was designed, built, and paid for by the Royal Tory Borough, and 'maintained' by them until it burnt down.

Is it too much to ask they would know how many flats were in it *-)

[John52]

W3526602 - 2018-06-01 9:03 AM

It says on this forum that Kensington is the richest borough, but I assume that the residents of Grenfell Tower do not consider themselves to be rich. ??? Yet they do not want to be moved to different boroughs. Kensington Council must be doing something right.

602

Maybe because the Royal Tory Borough is showering them with £50 million hush money Theresa May has taken from poorer boroughs to give them?

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-06-01 11:59 AM

 

pelmetman - 2018-06-01 8:45 AM

 

John52 - 2018-06-01 6:56 AM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 9:55 PM

 

Prolly because they were trying to cope with unique a disaster *-) ........

 

Front line aid was largely left to volunteers and charities, at least in the early stages.

Surely the least the Royal Tory Borough could have done is tried to ensure the aid Theresa May took from poorer areas to send to them went to the right people?

How long would it take a council to check whether one of their own council flats existed?

The fact they didn't even bother shows their breathtaking carelessness that caused the tragedy :-(

Which has proven to be the ultimate culprit for the deaths at Grenfell >:-)

 

So who's responsible for putting the same cladding on tower blocks in Labour run councils? *-) .........

 

 

Even if its the same cladding thats only one factor

 

What other factor caused the inferno?..........

 

Oh I know the cladding was paid for by Tories......the flat builders were paid by Tories.......the council is run by Tories........have you got an issue with the Tories Peter? :D ......

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 11:47 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-05-31 10:06 AM

 

pelmetman - 2018-05-31 7:45 AM

 

Oh dear.......Looks like "LABOURS" Blair is in the frame for relaxing building regulations :-| ..........

Have you missed out a quote Dave? If so, I'd be interested to see it, because I haven't yet heard about that. :-)

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/28/grenfell-tower-fire-was-tory-austerity-to-blame-or-do-problems-date-back-to-blair

 

“The cladding of tower blocks began under the Blair government,” said May, adding that the key issue was not the laws involved but how inflammable materials that did not comply with building regulations were put up in at least 120 tower blocks.

 

In particular, she pinpointed the 2005 regulatory reform (fire safety) order introduced under Blair’s government that shifted the responsibility for fire inspection from the fire brigade to the local council. She claimed it had “ended the practice of routine fire inspections”.

;-) .........

Thanks Dave, hadn't seen that. IMO, both Corbyn and May are wrong.

 

Corbyn cites a lack of inspectors and a lack of fire fighters.

 

Inspectors first, it is a matter of record that RBKC building control inspectors regularly visited the site during construction but, of course, by that stage of the project all necessary approvals would have been obtained. We don't yet know who actually approved what, so will have to await the further findings of the enquiry.

 

The actual regulation (B4) states: "(1) The external walls of the building shall adequately resist the spread of fire over the walls and from one building to another, having regard to the height, use and position of the building." That seems clear enough to me.

 

Re fire fighters, as I read the accounts, the brigade were on site quickly and at first believed they had extinguished the fire. The first attenders were leaving when their colleagues outside warned them that the fire was burning outside the building. They were clearly caught out by this, as the outside of such buildings is not supposed to be flammable. Dealing with the external fire necessitated more specialised appliances, which were called out, but took time to arrive, during which time the fire basically became uncontrollable.

 

The problem is that all fire fighting measures for such buildings, including the advice for residents to remain indoors with external doors and windows closed, until instructed otherwise, are based on the building complying with the relevant legislation. This building didn't comply, so the fire fighting procedures and the standard "stay in" advice were tragically wrong. Had the cladding complied, it is unlikely the fire would have progressed to other floors or flats, which is the intent of the regulations.

 

May cites the 2005 fire safety order. I think that was retrograde, but is not relevant because it refers to the duty to carry out periodic fire inspections inside buildings and the flammable material was outside, and was also contained in part within the cladding panels, and in part behind them, where no normal fire inspection would have been able to see, leave alone identify, the materials that had been used. Simply put, I don't think this is a political issue, but a purely technical issue, possibly resulting in part from unwise and ill-informed relaxations of an approval regime that has worked very well in the past.

 

The questions remain, IMO, how was this stuff approved, by whom, and on what basis? The answers to those questions should identify whether the fault lies with the approval system in its present form, or with the individuals who are granting the approvals. Plainly something has changed for the worse, because none of the buildings found to have had similar cladding applied, should ever have been so clad. It is not a problem of one authority, one approval team, or of party bias in interpretation (the councillors don't give the approvals) - no matter how much some people disgracefully want to use 70 deaths to make party political capital.

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2018-06-02 7:31 PM

The questions remain, IMO, how was this stuff approved, by whom, .

Give it time, *-)

Its only a year and we have to wait for them to retire on gold plated pensions first >:-)

[John52]

John52 - 2018-06-02 8:03 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-06-02 7:31 PM

The questions remain, IMO, how was this stuff approved, by whom, .

Give it time, *-)

Its only a year and we have to wait for them to retire on gold plated pensions first >:-)

 

Oh and dish out the £50 million hush money taken from poorer boroughs before they get in the witness box. But thats taking a long time because they are making a right royal mess of that too - dishing out our money to illegal immigrants who have never set foot in Grenfell Tower.'

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2018-06-02 7:31 PM

use 70 deaths to make party political capital.

 

You are doing that yourself but don't seem to realise it.

The Royal Borough has been Tory continuously since 1964 - before Grenfell Tower got on to the drawing board.

So may I ask you the same question I asked Antony because it seems he can't answer it.

How can we comment on Grenfell Tower without making party political capital?

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-06-03 7:09 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-06-02 7:31 PM

use 70 deaths to make party political capital.

 

You are doing that yourself but don't seem to realise it.

The Royal Borough has been Tory continuously since 1964 - before Grenfell Tower got on to the drawing board.

So may I ask you the same question I asked Antony because it seems he can't answer it.

How can we comment on Grenfell Tower without making party political capital?

 

You haven't blamed the Queen yet? *-) ..........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-06-03 8:15 AM

 

John52 - 2018-06-03 7:09 AM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-06-02 7:31 PM

use 70 deaths to make party political capital.

 

You are doing that yourself but don't seem to realise it.

The Royal Borough has been Tory continuously since 1964 - before Grenfell Tower got on to the drawing board.

So may I ask you the same question I asked Antony because it seems he can't answer it.

How can we comment on Grenfell Tower without making party political capital?

 

You haven't blamed the Queen yet? *-) ..........

 

 

So you are evading the question as well.

You are the one trying to make political capital by blaming Blair - but even that comes back to the Royal Tory Borough because he transferred responsibility for fire inspections to them.

You can't answer my question, but I'll answer yours.

No, you can't blame the Queen because you can't find out anything she doesn't want you to know because she is protected by the Official Secrets Act etc,. All we get is the sh*te put out by her spin doctors.

And she won't give interviews or answer questions - just like you.