Will health & safety prove to be the ultimate culprit for the deaths at Grenfell?.........

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2018-07-04 9:40 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-04 9:43 AM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-03 5:49 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-03 1:51 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2018-07-03 12:38 PM

The other factors, by which I assume you mean the fire doors .

 

Why would you assume I meant the fire doors - and not the removal of fire hoses from the landings for example?

 

You mean like those removed from a tower block in "Labour" run Birmingham? >:-) ........

 

The day after Grenfell 8-) 8-) 8-) ..........

 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/emergency-fire-hoses-removed-birmingham-13212408

 

It's time to rename that moral high ground you and Bullet are on as......"Hypocrite Hill" (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ............

 

 

No I don't mean fire doors. I mean the things the Royal Tory Borough and their hangers on don't want to talk about - like fire hoses removed from landings >:-(

 

Don't you read links from local Birmingham papers who's councils are run by Labour ?? >:-) .........

 

Here's a little ditty from those in that city :D ........

 

"Furious residents in a 19-storey tower block in Small Heath yelled “You’re killing us!” as the council REMOVED emergency fire hoses - just a day after London’s Grenfell Tower blaze."

 

.......That's hardly sounds very bang on caring Labour does it? >:-) ..........

It hardly sounds like a complete report either....in fact it isn't! You've edited out the part which explained the reason.

 

"A decision was made to remove them. The council had voiced concerns about legionella. Council chiefs say that the hose reels were removed in consultation with the fire service, and that there are sprinklers, smoke and fire alarms in the block. “In the event of a fire, the fire service would utilise their own fire-fighting equipment.

 

"They would have no use for the hoses so these were removed in consultation with West Midlands Fire Service

 

“The sprinklers are subject to quarterly review and we have no note of complaints about them."

 

https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/emergency-fire-hoses-removed-birmingham-13212408

[antony1969]

Brian asked the question about some clarity on the supposed missing fire hose reels in the Royal Tory Borough ... Any closer to some detail on this ???

[antony1969]

Its gone incredibly quiet since Brian asked for some info on the claim hose reels were removed from Grenfell ... The disgraceful political point scoring bashing of the Tories over Grenfell is one thing but surely the hose reel claim cant be made up can it ???

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2018-07-06 9:07 AM

 

Its gone incredibly quiet since Brian asked for some info on the claim hose reels were removed from Grenfell ... The disgraceful political point scoring bashing of the Tories over Grenfell is one thing but surely the hose reel claim cant be made up can it ???

 

Yep just googled "Grenfell fire hoses removed".....and nuffink about Grenfell :-S .........

 

Surely our resident Loony Lefties are not resorting to fake news? (lol) .........

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2018-07-06 10:17 AM

 

antony1969 - 2018-07-06 9:07 AM

 

Its gone incredibly quiet since Brian asked for some info on the claim hose reels were removed from Grenfell ... The disgraceful political point scoring bashing of the Tories over Grenfell is one thing but surely the hose reel claim cant be made up can it ???

 

Yep just googled "Grenfell fire hoses removed".....and nuffink about Grenfell :-S .........

 

Surely our resident Loony Lefties are not resorting to fake news? (lol) .........

 

 

Lock em up Lock em up ... They both love peddling fake news on here ... fire hoses , the Tories , Bradford fire ... Its a shame ... A real shame

[John52]

One of the residents said there were fire hoses on the landings when she moved in, but they had since been removed. I think this is pretty common in council flats, but they are supposed to replace the fire hoses with something better, which the Royal Tory Borough obviously failed to do :-( >:-(

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-07-08 10:54 AM

 

One of the residents said there were fire hoses on the landings when she moved in, but they had since been removed. I think this is pretty common in council flats, but they are supposed to replace the fire hoses with something better, which the Royal Tory Borough obviously failed to do :-( >:-(

 

Would that be one of the residents that actually lived there?.........Or one that just pretended to, in order to access some nice benefits? :-| ............

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-07-08 12:13 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-08 10:54 AM

 

One of the residents said there were fire hoses on the landings when she moved in, but they had since been removed. I think this is pretty common in council flats, but they are supposed to replace the fire hoses with something better, which the Royal Tory Borough obviously failed to do :-( >:-(

 

Would that be one of the residents that actually lived there?.........Or one that just pretended to, in order to access some nice benefits? :-| ............

 

 

I think she was genuine because it wasn't the Royal Tory Council reporting it, and I can't imagine anyone else being so careless and reckless as to not bother checking simple basic facts - even when paying £100,000+ sums of our money to scammers. >:-)

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-07-08 6:15 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-08 12:13 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-08 10:54 AM

 

One of the residents said there were fire hoses on the landings when she moved in, but they had since been removed. I think this is pretty common in council flats, but they are supposed to replace the fire hoses with something better, which the Royal Tory Borough obviously failed to do :-( >:-(

 

Would that be one of the residents that actually lived there?.........Or one that just pretended to, in order to access some nice benefits? :-| ............

 

 

I think she was genuine because it wasn't the Royal Tory Council reporting it, and I can't imagine anyone else being so careless and reckless as to not bother checking simple basic facts - even when paying £100,000+ sums of our money to scammers. >:-)

 

So now its the councils fault for believing the lies of scumbags? 8-) ........

 

A bit of advice Peter ;-) ......

 

You ain't doing genuine victims any favours by defending sh*tbags >:-) .......

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-07-08 7:03 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-08 6:15 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-08 12:13 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-08 10:54 AM

 

One of the residents said there were fire hoses on the landings when she moved in, but they had since been removed. I think this is pretty common in council flats, but they are supposed to replace the fire hoses with something better, which the Royal Tory Borough obviously failed to do :-( >:-(

 

Would that be one of the residents that actually lived there?.........Or one that just pretended to, in order to access some nice benefits? :-| ............

 

 

I think she was genuine because it wasn't the Royal Tory Council reporting it, and I can't imagine anyone else being so careless and reckless as to not bother checking simple basic facts - even when paying £100,000+ sums of our money to scammers. >:-)

 

So now its the councils fault for believing the lies of scumbags? 8-) ........

 

A bit of advice Peter ;-) ......

 

You ain't doing genuine victims any favours by defending sh*tbags >:-) .......

 

 

You think the Royal Tory Council is doing genuine victims any favours by paying out their compensation to scammers who claim to have lived in Grenfell flats that never even exisited?

Lets be honest. If you were skint and homeless, and you heard the Royal Tory Council were giving out flats to anyone who claimed to have lived in a Grenfell flat - without even bothering to check whether the flat existed, wouldn't you have been tempted to bung in a claim too?

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-07-09 8:08 AM

If you were skint and homeless, and you heard the Royal Tory Council were giving out flats to anyone who claimed to have lived in a Grenfell flat - without even bothering to check whether the flat existed, wouldn't you have been tempted to bung in a claim too?

 

Nope *-) ...........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-07-09 8:15 AM

 

John52 - 2018-07-09 8:08 AM

If you were skint and homeless, and you heard the Royal Tory Council were giving out flats to anyone who claimed to have lived in a Grenfell flat - without even bothering to check whether the flat existed, wouldn't you have been tempted to bung in a claim too?

 

Nope *-) ...........

 

 

Well I would.

And I think that makes me more honest than you ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-07-09 5:20 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-09 8:15 AM

 

John52 - 2018-07-09 8:08 AM

If you were skint and homeless, and you heard the Royal Tory Council were giving out flats to anyone who claimed to have lived in a Grenfell flat - without even bothering to check whether the flat existed, wouldn't you have been tempted to bung in a claim too?

 

Nope *-) ...........

 

 

Well I would.

And I think that makes me more honest than you ;-)

 

So you admit you'd steal and that makes you more honest than me? 8-) ..........

 

How very raving loony lefty (lol) (lol) (lol) ........

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2018-07-09 6:59 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-09 5:20 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-09 8:15 AM

 

John52 - 2018-07-09 8:08 AM

If you were skint and homeless, and you heard the Royal Tory Council were giving out flats to anyone who claimed to have lived in a Grenfell flat - without even bothering to check whether the flat existed, wouldn't you have been tempted to bung in a claim too?

 

Nope *-) ...........

 

 

Well I would.

And I think that makes me more honest than you ;-)

 

So you admit you'd steal and that makes you more honest than me? 8-) ..........

 

How very raving loony lefty (lol) (lol) (lol) ........

 

 

You really couldn't make it up ... What a complete loop ... Utter ruddy bonkers... Did he ever answer Brian's hose reel question

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-07-09 6:59 PM

 

John52 - 2018-07-09 5:20 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-09 8:15 AM

 

John52 - 2018-07-09 8:08 AM

If you were skint and homeless, and you heard the Royal Tory Council were giving out flats to anyone who claimed to have lived in a Grenfell flat - without even bothering to check whether the flat existed, wouldn't you have been tempted to bung in a claim too?

 

Nope *-) ...........

 

 

Well I would.

And I think that makes me more honest than you ;-)

 

So you admit you'd steal and that makes you more honest than me? 8-) ..........

 

How very raving loony lefty (lol) (lol) (lol) ........

 

 

My comment about me being more honest than you was followed by an icon that shows it wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

And no, I didn't 'admit I would steal' I said I think I would be tempted. I think we all would. But we can't know without experiencing that truly desperate situation of ourselves and loved ones being homeless in London :-(

Put it another way. Do you think its acceptable for the Royal Tory Borough to pay out hundreds of thousands of pounds of other people's money without making the most basic checks like whether the Grenfell flat they claim to have lived in actually existed?

Do you think its acceptable for them to pass all the blame on to the desperate claimants?

[John52]

antony1969 - 2018-07-09 8:23 PM

Did he ever answer Brian's hose reel question

 

Why don't you look on the relevant thread and see?

Make a change from you spouting off with no knowlege (lol)

[antony1969]

John52 - 2018-07-10 6:42 AM

 

antony1969 - 2018-07-09 8:23 PM

Did he ever answer Brian's hose reel question

 

Why don't you look on the relevant thread and see?

Make a change from you spouting off with no knowlege (lol)

 

Brian I think asked for some kind of clarification on the subject ... With your past record of fantasy proof is what we would like ... Post up a link about what you claim or as usual are you "spouting off with no knowledge" ???

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-07-10 6:33 AM

 

Do you think its acceptable for them to pass all the blame on to the desperate claimants?

 

Do you think its acceptable for you loony lefties to make political capital out of a disaster? :-| .........

 

 

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-07-10 8:25 AM

 

John52 - 2018-07-10 6:33 AM

 

Do you think its acceptable for them to pass all the blame on to the desperate claimants?

 

Do you think its acceptable for you loony lefties to make political capital out of a disaster? :-| .........

 

 

 

 

The Council 'responsible' for Grenfell Tower has been Tory continuously since 1964 - before Grenfell Tower got on to the drawing board.

So what can anybody say about it without being accused of 'making political capital'?

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-07-11 9:42 AM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-10 8:25 AM

 

John52 - 2018-07-10 6:33 AM

 

Do you think its acceptable for them to pass all the blame on to the desperate claimants?

 

Do you think its acceptable for you loony lefties to make political capital out of a disaster? :-| .........

 

 

 

 

The Council 'responsible' for Grenfell Tower has been Tory continuously since 1964 - before Grenfell Tower got on to the drawing board.

So what can anybody say about it without being accused of 'making political capital'?

 

So they're the only ones who ever built tower blocks? .......and they're the ones who only used the cladding that caused the disaster? *-) ..............

 

Give up Peter ;-) ........Grenfell ain't gonna make a blind bit of difference come the next election ;-) ........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2018-07-11 11:34 AM

 

So they're the only ones who ever built tower blocks? .......and they're the ones who only used the cladding that caused the disaster? *-) ..............

 

Of course not.

But disasters are seldom caused by one factor alone.

The cladding is only one factor which combined to cause the disaster :-(

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-07-12 12:21 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-07-11 11:34 AM

 

So they're the only ones who ever built tower blocks? .......and they're the ones who only used the cladding that caused the disaster? *-) ..............

 

Of course not.

But disasters are seldom caused by one factor alone.

The cladding is only one factor which combined to cause the disaster :-(

 

It'll prove to be the only reason the fire spread ..........

 

Why it was cleared for use is the more important question :-| ........

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

John52 - 2018-07-10 6:42 AM

 

antony1969 - 2018-07-09 8:23 PM

Did he ever answer Brian's hose reel question

 

Why don't you look on the relevant thread and see?

Make a change from you spouting off with no knowlege (lol)

It's in this thread, John, and you replied "One of the residents said there were fire hoses on the landings when she moved in, but they had since been removed. I think this is pretty common in council flats, but they are supposed to replace the fire hoses with something better, which the Royal Tory Borough obviously failed to do."

 

It is not conclusive or corroborated, so just vague hearsay. Assuming it is true, there is no evidence as to what RBKC provided instead, so who knows? Possibly, that new fire alarm system that reportedly wasn't working at the time of the fire? Possibly those new fire doors to the flats that were sold as 30 minute doors, but had glazed panels in them that negated their fire performance? As I said who knows?

 

I'm afraid I think you are overly influenced by the inclusion of the word "Royal" in Kensington and Chelsea's official name, and by the political make up of its council. RBKC own the building, and commissioned (apparently in some way via the Tenant Management Organisation, which seems to have been extraordinarily "light" in essential technical advisors/knowledge) the refurbishment work, so are de facto primarily responsible for the outcome of the fire. That much is fact. But, since the cladding was the vector through which the fire spread, was illegal, was not specified by RBKC, it seems reasonable to identify who specified that cladding, and whether, and if so by whom, and with whose approval, that specification was varied. Those questions are central to what the enquiry is about, and the only sensible thing to do is allow the enquiry to follow the evidence and see where it points. The time to shout "whitewash" will be if the enquiry findings seem to be protecting those actually responsible on political grounds.

 

I'm sorry, but you seem to me to have identified all the culprits on the basis of what they are called and how you assume they think, and not on the basis of what they actually did, or failed to do. That, is unreasonable.

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2018-07-12 4:47 PM

not on the basis of what they actually did, or failed to do.

You should read what the Tenants have to say, (eg: https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/ - note the date is before the fire) and how they were treated differently to the well-heeled Tory voting part of the Royal Borough - where proper precautions were taken against fire. :-(

I use the full title Royal Tory Borough for the same reason I use the full title of Sir Jimmy Savile OBE KCSG - his establishment credentials and close friendship with Royalty and Tory PM Thatcher were fundamental to him getting away with it because ordinary folk could not challenge him - they would be effectively brushed aside like the tenants of Grenfell Tower, not believed. If they spoke the truth they would have to pay absurd damages, like the £1million pounds plus it cost the Daily Star (at the time when the average house price was £25k) just for truthfully printing LORD Archer gave money to a working girl.

But I'm sure the enquiry will 'clarify' the situation.

As Sir Humphrey Appleby said 'to clarify the situation does not mean to make the situation clear, it means to put one's self in the clear' ...

[Bulletguy]

 

Interesting link John. I knew Grenfell residents had formed an Action Group long before the fire took place and lodged a list of valid complaints including that of fire hazard.....but were ignored.

 

This from the same action group;

 

Firefighters, alongside the bereaved, survivors and residents, want those at the top who made the big decisions held to account and, where appropriate, prosecuted. That means the business owners and landlords who failed to keep their premises safe. It is shocking that a year down the line nobody has been arrested, despite the obvious fact that a death trap was created at Grenfell.

 

We want government ministers held to account for overseeing a deregulatory regime that failed to keep people safe in their homes, surely a basic expectation of public authorities in a civilised society. Only this process of holding to account, alongside a fundamental change in the approach to housing and to fire safety will bring justice for Grenfell.

 

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/