Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... In 1976 it WAS based in Odessa :D ..........I know because I was there (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country 8-) 8-) 8-) ....... Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners - it just takes a bit longer to show when they start with national wealth as their source, before screwing theier own population - and it is unfotunate that the freedom of thought and speech that undemocratic Britain enjoys is often one of the first casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-15 7:08 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country 8-) 8-) 8-) ....... Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners - it just takes a bit longer to show when they start with national wealth as their source, before screwing theier own population - and it is unfotunate that the freedom of thought and speech that undemocratic Britain enjoys is often one of the first casualties. You have a point Rich ;-) ............ Nicolás Maduro Moros (/m?'d??ro?/; Spanish: [niko'las ma'du?o 'mo?os];[2] born 23 November 1962) is a Venezuelan politician serving as the 46th President of Venezuela since 2013 and previously served as Minister of Foreign Affairs from 2006 to 2013 and as Vice President of Venezuela from 2012 to 2013 under President Hugo Chávez. Beginning his working life as a bus driver, Maduro rose to become a trade union leader before being elected to the National Assembly in 2000. He was appointed to a number of positions within the Venezuelan government under Chávez, ultimately being made Foreign Minister in 2006. He was described during this time as the "most capable administrator and politician of Chávez's inner circle".[3] After Chávez's death was announced on 5 March 2013, Maduro assumed the powers and responsibilities of the President. A special election was held on 14 April 2013 to elect a new President, and Maduro won with 50.62% of the votes as the candidate of the United Socialist Party of Venezuela. He was formally inaugurated on 19 April.[4] He has ruled Venezuela by decree since 19 November 2013 through powers granted to him by the Venezuela legislature.[5][6][7][8] His presidency has coincided with a decline in Venezuela's socioeconomic status, with crime, inflation, poverty and hunger increasing; analysts have attributed Venezuela's decline to both Chávez and Maduro's economic policies,[9][10][11][12] while Maduro has blamed speculation and economic warfare waged by his political opponents.[13][14][15][16][17][18] Shortages in Venezuela and decreased living standards resulted in protests beginning in 2014 that escalated into daily marches nationwide, resulting in 43 deaths and a decrease in Maduro's popularity.[19][20][21][22] Maduro's loss of popularity saw the election of an opposition-led National Assembly in 2015 and a movement toward recalling Maduro in 2016, though Maduro still maintains power through loyal political bodies, such as the Supreme Tribunal, National Electoral Council and the military.[ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicol%C3%A1s_Maduro It appears the moral to this story is 8-) ..........Beware us ex Bus drivers :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 malc d - 2019-02-14 5:18 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ? Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely! :-D I reckon HMS Devonshire used to sail in circles around the Isle of Wight - land occasionally - and, each time, tell Dave he was in a different country. ;-) Actually Malc my first foreign trip on the Devonshire was to Hamburg ;-) ....... Where I went window shopping down the Reeperbahn as a 17 year old 8-) ...... Since then......Window shopping has been a massive disappointment :'( ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ....... Back then it was no different to a county border in the UK ;-) ......... As far as the Government and the Navy was concerned we were engaged in reciprocal visits with Russia ;-) ............. Which is why a Russian ship was timed to visit Portsmouth at the same time :D ........ https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-ajaxnetphoto-28th-may1976-portsmouthengland-the-russians-are-coming-134200281.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-15 7:08 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country 8-) 8-) 8-) ....... Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners - America? Yes you'd be right on "screwing up any country to feather their own nest" on that one, though i've always had their politics more right wing leaning than left. There are plenty of American media sources explaining their meddling and encouraging various coups over the years to install another puppet. Doesn't take much to see why the US is so interested in Venezuela. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:45 PM Tracker - 2019-02-15 7:08 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country 8-) 8-) 8-) ....... Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners - America? Yes you'd be right on "screwing up any country to feather their own nest" on that one, though i've always had their politics more right wing leaning than left. There are plenty of American media sources explaining their meddling and encouraging various coups over the years to install another puppet. Doesn't take much to see why the US is so interested in Venezuela. Doesn't take much to see why Putin is so interested in Venezuela............ Comrade ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ...... You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map? JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ...... You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map? JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply. Russia :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ...... You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map? JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply. Russia :D ........ There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ...... You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map? JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply. Russia :D ........ There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it? Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-15 9:11 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ...... You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map? JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply. Russia :D ........ There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it? Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia :D ......... No it wasn't......you're purposely avoiding stating Ukraine as though it never existed. I asked you to state the name of the country Odessa is, and always has been, geographically located in.....not politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 9:20 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 9:11 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ...... You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map? JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply. Russia :D ........ There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it? Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia :D ......... No it wasn't......you're purposely avoiding stating Ukraine as though it never existed. I asked you to state the name of the country Odessa is, and always has been, geographically located in.....not politically. A bit of history for you about your Communist chums....... The Ukrainian government briefly allied themselves with Poland, but could not withstand the Soviet assault. In 1922, Ukraine became one of the original constituent republics of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (U.S.S.R.); it would not regain its independence until the U.S.S.R.'s collapse in 1991.5 Nov 2009 Ergo....... they were part of the USSR, commonly known as Russia since 1922 until 1991 ;-) ....... Although it appears your mate Putin has an issue with them leaving :-| .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-15 9:40 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 9:20 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 9:11 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:54 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:51 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 8:39 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 8:29 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 7:06 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 6:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:39 PM It's not an "argument" though Dave, you cannot dispute a geographical fact of the location of Odessa. Will you do yourself a favour by looking at that 1970's map of Ukraine (the full jpeg i linked) as i know you haven't looked at it? Even though all the place names are in Cyrillic, it's very easy to see the location of Odessa. The thing is Paul .........I know where Odessa is as I went there :D ........... I also know it was very much part of Russia as it was home to the Russian Black Sea Fleet ....... Sorry but you're still attempting to 'move' the geographical location of a city out of one country to another. Have you actually looked at that map? You haven't have you? I know why you won't but please open it (the large jpeg i linked) and then tell me the name of the country you see Odessa marked. The Black Sea Fleet base is Sevastopol Crimea, one of the reasons for it's recent annexation from Ukraine by Russia but thats a convenient deflection. The Black Sea Fleet is NOW based in the Crimea .......Because Putin has annexed it ;-) ....... Dave....we aren't discussing the Black Sea Fleet which was why i said it's just a convenient deflection. Neither was i discussing Venezuela, Putin or God knows what else you want to shoehorn in. Now, back to what i've been asking you to do but for some reason you've continually avoided. 1) Click on this jpeg link of 1970's Ukraine; http://expositions.nlr.ru/ex_map/Krim/images/big/18.jpg 2) Tell me the country name where Odessa is marked. Paul......In 1976 the Ukraine was part of the USSR commonly known as Russia *-) ...... You're conflating political location with geographical location which i've already gone through so i'll ask you again.....what is the name of the country Odessa is marked on that 1970's map? JUST the country name......cut the waffle and deflection, just name the country. One word is all you need in reply. Russia :D ........ There is a very large country between Moldova and Russia. Can you tell me the name of it? Yeah ......in 1976 it was commonly known as Russia :D ......... No it wasn't......you're purposely avoiding stating Ukraine as though it never existed. I asked you to state the name of the country Odessa is, and always has been, geographically located in.....not politically. Ukraine. Correct.....i've edited out the rest of your waffle because i only needed to see you state the name of the country Odessa is and always has been geographically located in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 This stupid childish prattle of repasting yards of repeats to add a one line response is stupid and childish - deliberate repeat - and is contributing towards making this forum so unattractive to many people and you should be ashamed of your own stupid and childish point scoring attempts. Grow up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-13 8:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-13 8:38 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-09 1:29 PM...………….. We were lied to 40 odd years ago when we were told we could join a Common Market >:-) ......… It is strange that such a serious minded and precocious youth failed to read the papers in 1973, and remained unaware of the nature of the European Economic Community (AKA the Common Market), it origins, and the changes it had already made. We did join, though, so what was the actual lie? Could that now mature youth point to it? That precocious youth has become a belligerent Brexiteer after 46 years experience of EU membership >:-) ........... So there was no lie: you were told you could join a Common Market, and you did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-14 4:43 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ? Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely! :-D I doubt the Russians saw it that way Brian? Left hand down a bit! Yes, but I bet the Ukrainians did! It'd be like telling a Welshman that Wales is part of England, wouldn't it? I'll get me own coat! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-14 5:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ? Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely! :-D In 1976 it was part of the Soviet Union which was commonly referred to as "Russia" Brian *-) ......... From wiki...... "Nominally a union of multiple national Soviet republics, its government and economy were highly centralized. The country was a one-party state, governed by the Communist Party with Moscow as its capital in its largest republic, the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (Russian SFSR)." Judging by Putin's actions he intends to make it part of Russia again ;-) ......... Also from Wiki, but on Ukraine: "The territory of modern Ukraine has been inhabited since 32,000 BC. During the Middle Ages, the area was a key centre of East Slavic culture, with the powerful state of Kievan Rus' forming the basis of Ukrainian identity. Following its fragmentation in the 13th century, the territory was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers, including Lithuania, Poland, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire and Russia. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but its territory was eventually split between Poland and the Russian Empire, and finally merged fully into the Russian-dominated Soviet Union in the late 1940s as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. In 1991 Ukraine gained its independence from the Soviet Union in the aftermath of its dissolution at the end of the Cold War. Before its independence, Ukraine was typically referred to in English as "The Ukraine", but most sources have since moved to drop "the" from the name of Ukraine in all uses." So, even under the USSR it retained its name, as in "the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic", but never Russia. Just depends when you count from, doesn't it? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-15 7:08 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-15 4:49 PM Coz as we can see from Venezuela they can even f*ck up a oil rich country 8-) 8-) 8-) ....... Commies and lefties are not proud - they will screw up any country whilst they feather their own comfy corners - it just takes a bit longer to show when they start with national wealth as their source, before screwing theier own population - and it is unfotunate that the freedom of thought and speech that undemocratic Britain enjoys is often one of the first casualties. Here is a Wiki link: http://tinyurl.com/yyhftjd3 It is a long piece, that I found fascinating, as so many of the stated reasons behind Brexit chime with me. It also seems relevant to the title of this string, as what it is really pointing out is how much our democracy has been quietly eroded over the years. Some of the links are also interesting, especially that to Migration Watch, where you should find a chart showing how newspaper articles have linked words together in articles over the years: for example continually associating "migrant" with "illegal", so that the pairing creates a sub-conscious assumption that the one invariably implies the other. If you have the stamina, have a read. I would also add that the unstated message I took from the whole piece is that in relationship to the political views above, it is not just the "commies and lefties" who are good at screwing up countries. We might be wise to look closer to home, and to recognise the role played by good old fashioned right wing "laissez faire" politics in achieving the same end. See what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-16 2:50 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-14 5:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-14 4:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-14 8:56 AM...…………………...How much would you like to bet that I wasn't on HMS Devonshire when she visited Odessa in Russia in 1976 ? Er, its in Ukraine, Dave. Not another of those embarrassing navy lark errors, surely! :-D In 1976 it was part of the Soviet Union which was commonly referred to as "Russia" Brian *-) ......... From wiki...... "Nominally a union of multiple national Soviet republics, its government and economy were highly centralized. The country was a one-party state, governed by the Communist Party with Moscow as its capital in its largest republic, the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (Russian SFSR)." Judging by Putin's actions he intends to make it part of Russia again ;-) ......... Also from Wiki, but on Ukraine: "The territory of modern Ukraine has been inhabited since 32,000 BC. During the Middle Ages, the area was a key centre of East Slavic culture, with the powerful state of Kievan Rus' forming the basis of Ukrainian identity. Following its fragmentation in the 13th century, the territory was contested, ruled and divided by a variety of powers, including Lithuania, Poland, Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman Empire and Russia. A Cossack republic emerged and prospered during the 17th and 18th centuries, but its territory was eventually split between Poland and the Russian Empire, and finally merged fully into the Russian-dominated Soviet Union in the late 1940s as the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. In 1991 Ukraine gained its independence from the Soviet Union in the aftermath of its dissolution at the end of the Cold War. Before its independence, Ukraine was typically referred to in English as "The Ukraine", but most sources have since moved to drop "the" from the name of Ukraine in all uses." So, even under the USSR it retained its name, as in "the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic", but never Russia. Just depends when you count from, doesn't it? :-D Had he visited Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria or GDR in the 70's i'm sure he'd still claim to have "been in" Russia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ageingandrew Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-15 4:02 PM ageingandrew - 2019-02-15 11:36 AM HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-12 9:13 AM pelmetman - 2019-02-09 1:29 PM HarveyHeaven - 2019-02-08 11:20 AM Brexit is wrong it was won illegally promoted by a totally right wing press and Tory owned BBC...it is not possible to have considered discussion in relation to Brexit...where do you start....it was fraudulent and nothing can change that, it was won illegally.... the UK Government is corrupt .....the UK is fast becomming a dictatorship and the future is bleak...whatever the outcome of this particular corrupt event the UK will never be the same again. We know those who voted Brexit were lied to but sadly they know it now too but still support the corruption. Treaties and responsibilities are being broken without a thought for the consequences. The Tory Government are happily passing laws which result in the deaths of thousands of people in utter misery, poverty is rife....Victorian diseases realted to poverty have returned to the UK...homelessness is at an all time high with people in wheelchairs being made homeless and dying on the streets, the NHS is being totally destroyed to justify selling it off, hundreds of thousands of children are now living in poverty and temporary accommodation relying on food banks to stave off starvation, but the right wing press and the BBC remain stum......Democracy is dead and will remain so until some level honour is restored aided and a betted by an impartial media who will report the true state of affairs the country is now in. Get over it *-) ........... We were lied to 40 odd years ago when we were told we could join a Common Market >:-) ......... The Electoral Commission found the Leave Campaign guilty of electoral fraud in 2016 and subject ot foreign interference..... NOTHING will change that....a democracy would have immediately declared the Referendum void and re-run it without delay ensuring there was no fraud and no foreign interference...these are facts....whist this remains the case the UK cannot be described as a Democracy and Democracy will not be restored until this fraudulent situation has been addressed........I cannot recall the Referendum of 40 years ago being officially found to be fraudulent!! Not so and completely wrong. The Electoral commission did not find the Leave campaign guilty of electoral fraud. The electoral commission found them guilty of exceeding spending limits but then admitted that they themselves (the electoral commission) had misinterpreted their own spending rules. There is no evidence of foreign interference highlighted anywhere in the election commission reports so how you can make such sweeping statements with no evidence is beyond me. As for the rest of this diatribe; un-substantiated nonsense; of utter crap; inane bitching; I really don't know why I have bothered to respond to it..... But I did. It makes me wonder whether the 'Remainiacs' would have bitched so much if 'Remain' had won. Vote Leave and BeLeave were running funding through different accounts, similar to money laundering if you like, and BeLeave spent more than £675,000 with Aggregate IQ under a common plan with Vote Leave. Aggregate IQ is a Canadian company so there's your evidence of 'foreign interference' straight away, part of which was the web intertwined through Cambridge Analytica and SCL. False declarations were made and that's electoral fraud. You really should have a listen to Chris Whylie's testimony to MP's. Don't be fooled by his outward appearance, that guy worked with CA as a data consultant and is extremely articulate and intelligent. I'm amazed anyone can still bury their heads over this as the evidence has long been out in the public domain that the Leave campaign actions were a subversion of democracy and quite how anyone can be comfortable with that, i've no idea. As with most Brexiteers you mention "the win" which sadly, appears to be of more importance than valuing and ensuring lawful democracy. Aggregate IQ/Cambridge Analytics supplied a data analytics service to the Leave campaign, you cannot make a claim of “foreign interference” just because they are based in Canada. They were contracted to provide a service for the legitimate Leave campaign. They provided targeted audience analysis and targeted messaging for the legitimate Leave campaign; a far less intrusive messaging campaign than the Government’s which was paid for with tax payers funds when they sent every household in the UK a blatant piece of pro-EU propaganda advising us to vote to remain. No-one is burying their heads, we can all see what happened and see the dirty tricks used by both sides during the referendum campaign including the “punishment budget” we were all threatened with, the loss of 50,000 jobs straight away and many, many more vile threats designed to browbeat us and frighten us to vote to remain. Just because you believe fraud was committed does not make it a fact. The electoral commission does not recognise electoral fraud as having happened. The law broken by Leave was to exceed their spending limit, a limit that the electoral commission themselves had misinterpreted, and inaccuracies in reporting. So many clearly want to believe that “we was robbed”; that democracy has been subverted. Neither of these things are true. In 2016 the UK held its greatest democratic exercise for more than 40 years. More people voted in the referendum than in pretty much any election in the past 40 years. Just because you don’t get what you want does not mean that democracy has been subverted. The only subversion of democracy will be the UK not leaving the EU as voted on by the majority of UK voters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 ageingandrew - 2019-02-15 11:36 AM...…………….Not so and completely wrong. The Electoral commission did not find the Leave campaign guilty of electoral fraud. The electoral commission found them guilty of exceeding spending limits but then admitted that they themselves (the electoral commission) had misinterpreted their own spending rules. There is no evidence of foreign interference highlighted anywhere in the election commission reports so how you can make such sweeping statements with no evidence is beyond me. As for the rest of this diatribe; un-substantiated nonsense; of utter crap; inane bitching; I really don't know why I have bothered to respond to it..... But I did. It makes me wonder whether the 'Remainiacs' would have bitched so much if 'Remain' had won. So here's the thing. Brexit is hopelessly mired. It is clear that parliament has no majority for any solution to the referendum vote outcome. Therefore, what are the options? A slim majority of the electorate voted to leave. A substantial minority voted remain. Those who voted leave voted on the basis of a number of issues, principally national sovereignty, immigration, and border security. Those who voted remain did so mainly on the basis of the damage to the UK economy that Brexit seemed most likely to cause. In effect, leave voted against the EU, while remain voted for future prosperity. But, how are those two conflicting views, the one backward looking, the other forward looking, to be reconciled via a compromise all can accept? On present evidence, no such compromise exists, and parliament is demonstrating that. We are stuck in limbo. Our MPs are not themselves at risk from Brexit: most will retain their seats post Brexit, and of those who lose theirs, the majority will be employed by organisations that expect to benefit from their inside knowledge. Yet the majority of MPs, unaffected by such self-interest, think Brexit a mistake. Their problem is that they have hooked themselves, first by agreeing to the referendum without thinking through its consequences and planning for a leave vote, again by agreeing to its binary, in-out format, and finally by agreeing to serve notice under Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty before the government had presented a worked set of objectives for Brexit. They are all implicated, and all conflicted. They want to carry out the democratic will of the electorate to leave the EU - while inflicting the minimum of damage on the UK economy. They see no version of Brexit that will benefit the UK economy, so are faced with a quest for the Holy Grail: a formula that satisfies the will to leave, while retaining all the economically beneficial aspects of remaining. To date, the Holy Grail has not been found. They all know that. Theresa May's "deal" is only about leaving: it does not address UK's post Brexit relationship with the EU at all. All that remains to be negotiated during the transition period. But, that future deal is the most important element of Brexit. A further referendum seems to me as likely to result in the same result as the first, or merely an equally narrow majority for remain. What then? Same parliament, same MPs. same quandary. No solution. It is interesting that the leave vote came primarily from disadvantaged parts of the UK. From our northern industrial areas - now de-industrialised, from mining areas - now with no mines, from sea fishing areas - now with restricted quotas, from areas previously with few immigrants, now accommodating large numbers of eastern European migrants. None of these grievances resulted from the EU, but from UK government failure, over many years, to cushion those areas from the economic and social disadvantages of uncontrolled globalisation, laissez faire politics, and unmanaged migration. They can be remedied by UK governments, but will not be remedied by Brexit - which will merely make that task more difficult. So, having argued themselves to a standstill, and faced with the unwanted results of an ill-considered referendum that they cannot resolve, what should they do? Leave with no deal, which is almost universally held the most damaging outcome? Accept Theresa's flawed deal with the infamous backstop - to which I think there is no alternative solution? Switch to a Norway type deal with free movement, single market, and customs union? Seek an extension of time - which will probably not be granted? Or pull the Article 50 notification against a cross party undertaking that those disadvantaged areas will become the first priority of all future governments until remedied, and then hold a further referendum when all areas of the UK can see EU membership through other than the distorting lens of social and economic deprivation. Will we get to that point? Who knows, but it is at least possible. The eventual outcome, whatever it might be, will still disappoint some: that is inevitable. What it would avoid, however, is the perversity of inflicting economic damage on us all, in order to remedy problems that require a thriving economy to eradicate. Brexit is not fundamentally about the EU, it is about years of failed UK government policy. Bin Brexit and fix the UK. Good slogan? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-16 5:34 PM . Bin Brexit and fix the UK. Good slogan? :-D Good slogan indeed. But who on earth would trust either major UK political party to honour it ! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 malc d - 2019-02-16 5:48 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-16 5:34 PM . Bin Brexit and fix the UK. Good slogan? :-D Good slogan indeed. But who on earth would trust either major UK political party to honour it ! :-( Hobson's choice? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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