Fast Pat Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 teflon2 - 2019-02-18 6:58 PM Paranoid or not you seem to have dropped the we were not lied to comment. As I said Brian the information we were fed was meant to deceive and like a fool I was one who was deceived. I've 40+ years to watch where the EU is going but I didn't need that it was obvious within the 1st few that the only countries to benefit were to be the mainland Europe ones Ask yourself why did Greenland leave the EU in 1985 if not to protect their fish stocks from over-fishing by the mainland EU countries ? Now we need to follow them and regain our sovereignty. Just look all EU associated countries are now called states. Greenland has 50,000 inhabitants and fishing contributes to 50% of economy. The UK fishing industry employs 24,000 people and the fishing and fish processing industries accounted for 0.12% of the all UK economic output. How many people do you think were (past tense) employed in car manufacturing in the UK and what % of GDP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Screwing the motor industry in the past did not seem to bother the unions or successive governments so why the big deal now - oh yes, I know, because it suits the remoaner's half baked idea that everything EU is good and Brexit isn't! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 "The UK fishing industry employs 24,000 people and the fishing and fish processing industries accounted for 0.12% of the all UK economic output". That is a direct result of EU fishing quotas and fish stock policies after the area was fished out by numerous EU Member States. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-02-18 7:08 PM teflon2 - 2019-02-18 6:58 PM Paranoid or not you seem to have dropped the we were not lied to comment. As I said Brian the information we were fed was meant to deceive and like a fool I was one who was deceived. I've 40+ years to watch where the EU is going but I didn't need that it was obvious within the 1st few that the only countries to benefit were to be the mainland Europe ones Ask yourself why did Greenland leave the EU in 1985 if not to protect their fish stocks from over-fishing by the mainland EU countries ? Now we need to follow them and regain our sovereignty. Just look all EU associated countries are now called states. Greenland has 50,000 inhabitants and fishing contributes to 50% of economy. The UK fishing industry employs 24,000 people and the fishing and fish processing industries accounted for 0.12% of the all UK economic output. How many people do you think were (past tense) employed in car manufacturing in the UK and what % of GDP? The difference is the car industry is having to reinvent itself globally ;-) .......... So blaming it on Brexit is just mere opportunism from the usual suspects *-) ......... Are you Remoaners are so deluded......That you think that if we stayed in they wouldn't be closing factories???? 8-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Tracker - 2019-02-18 7:21 PM Screwing the motor industry in the past did not seem to bother the unions or successive governments so why the big deal now - oh yes, I know, because it suits the remoaner's half baked idea that everything EU is good and Brexit isn't! Illogical! :-D Who, actually, owns the "British Motor Industry"? India? Japan? France? Germany? This isn't about the EU, it is about the progressive loss of jobs, which translates to a loss of incomes and their spending to the economy in general, plus a loss of the resulting taxation to the exchequer, so transferring a lot of people who are at present on the income side of the government's balance sheet to the expenditure side. Spin that how you will, but it is the costs and uncertainties surrounding Brexit that are inevitably adding to the reasons for firms to review if the reason they manufacture in the UK. We are seeing the consequences of their deliberations. It isn't just Brexit, no-one but a fool would claim that. But equally, no one but a fool could claim that Brexit is having no impact. We could do without it, before the damage cascades through the whole economy. We are watching domino theory in action. The Brexiters won't be convinced until they are sitting amid the ruins, wondering where their lives went. They will be proudly independent, but we will all be impoverished in the process. I'm not "scaremongering" to try to persuade Brexiters to return to some fuzzy, warm, EU nest, I'm stating what I think the future holds for all of us, and I can see it happening. We are seeing a gathering storm, with the Brexiters looking in the opposite direction and saying storm, what storm - even as the first drops of rain are falling. The silly games have to stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 9:29 AM Tracker - 2019-02-18 7:21 PM Screwing the motor industry in the past did not seem to bother the unions or successive governments so why the big deal now - oh yes, I know, because it suits the remoaner's half baked idea that everything EU is good and Brexit isn't! Illogical! :-D Who, actually, owns the "British Motor Industry"? India? Japan? France? Germany? This isn't about the EU, it is about the progressive loss of jobs, which translates to a loss of incomes and their spending to the economy in general, plus a loss of the resulting taxation to the exchequer, so transferring a lot of people who are at present on the income side of the government's balance sheet to the expenditure side. Spin that how you will, but it is the costs and uncertainties surrounding Brexit that are inevitably adding to the reasons for firms to review if the reason they manufacture in the UK. We are seeing the consequences of their deliberations. It isn't just Brexit, no-one but a fool would claim that. But equally, no one but a fool could claim that Brexit is having no impact. We could do without it, before the damage cascades through the whole economy. We are watching domino theory in action. The Brexiters won't be convinced until they are sitting amid the ruins, wondering where their lives went. They will be proudly independent, but we will all be impoverished in the process. I'm not "scaremongering" to try to persuade Brexiters to return to some fuzzy, warm, EU nest, I'm stating what I think the future holds for all of us, and I can see it happening. We are seeing a gathering storm, with the Brexiters looking in the opposite direction and saying storm, what storm - even as the first drops of rain are falling. The silly games have to stop. The difference is Brexit will take us out of the storms path ;-) ............ It's the EU that will require the Ark when their empire sinks and the deluge of populism >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Anyone worrying about the loss of Manufacturing has come to the table about 50 years too late. That Horse bolted a long time ago. :'( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-19 11:16 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 9:29 AM Tracker - 2019-02-18 7:21 PM Screwing the motor industry in the past did not seem to bother the unions or successive governments so why the big deal now - oh yes, I know, because it suits the remoaner's half baked idea that everything EU is good and Brexit isn't! Illogical! :-D Who, actually, owns the "British Motor Industry"? India? Japan? France? Germany? This isn't about the EU, it is about the progressive loss of jobs, which translates to a loss of incomes and their spending to the economy in general, plus a loss of the resulting taxation to the exchequer, so transferring a lot of people who are at present on the income side of the government's balance sheet to the expenditure side. Spin that how you will, but it is the costs and uncertainties surrounding Brexit that are inevitably adding to the reasons for firms to review if the reason they manufacture in the UK. We are seeing the consequences of their deliberations. It isn't just Brexit, no-one but a fool would claim that. But equally, no one but a fool could claim that Brexit is having no impact. We could do without it, before the damage cascades through the whole economy. We are watching domino theory in action. The Brexiters won't be convinced until they are sitting amid the ruins, wondering where their lives went. They will be proudly independent, but we will all be impoverished in the process. I'm not "scaremongering" to try to persuade Brexiters to return to some fuzzy, warm, EU nest, I'm stating what I think the future holds for all of us, and I can see it happening. We are seeing a gathering storm, with the Brexiters looking in the opposite direction and saying storm, what storm - even as the first drops of rain are falling. The silly games have to stop. The difference is Brexit will take us out of the storms path ;-) ............ It's the EU that will require the Ark when their empire sinks under the deluge of populism >:-) ........... Just changed a typo ;-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 9:29 AM Tracker - 2019-02-18 7:21 PM Screwing the motor industry in the past did not seem to bother the unions or successive governments so why the big deal now - oh yes, I know, because it suits the remoaner's half baked idea that everything EU is good and Brexit isn't! It isn't just Brexit, no-one but a fool would claim that. But equally, no one but a fool could claim that Brexit is having no impact. We could do without it, before the damage cascades through the whole economy. We are watching domino theory in action. The Brexiters won't be convinced until they are sitting amid the ruins, wondering where their lives went. They will be proudly independent, but we will all be impoverished in the process. I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. I'm not "scaremongering" to try to persuade Brexiters to return to some fuzzy, warm, EU nest, I'm stating what I think the future holds for all of us, and I can see it happening. We are seeing a gathering storm, with the Brexiters looking in the opposite direction and saying storm, what storm - even as the first drops of rain are falling. The silly games have to stop. Couldn't agree more. It's about time Article 50 was pulled. They got that totally the wrong way round and instead of triggering should have looked first at all the consequences rather than after. A huge amount of damage has already been done and continuing virtually daily now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. Clearly the majority thinks leaving the EU will be the best for the UK in the long run.....Just as I do B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 747 - 2019-02-19 12:35 PM Anyone worrying about the loss of Manufacturing has come to the table about 50 years too late. That Horse bolted a long time ago. :'( Yes it did, buy why add to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 2:54 PM 747 - 2019-02-19 12:35 PM Anyone worrying about the loss of Manufacturing has come to the table about 50 years too late. That Horse bolted a long time ago. :'( Yes it did, but why add to it? Brexit has nothing to do with International businesses getting ready for a recession and restructuring *-) ......... It's just provided them with a useful whipping post ;-) ........ Do you actually think canceling Brexit will make a blind bit of difference??? 8-) ......... If you do then you've become even more deluded than I've given you credit for :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-19 11:16 AM...………………….The difference is Brexit will take us out of the storms path ;-) ............ So how will that work, Dave, and how long is the long run? There was good reason to attract foreign firms to the UK to replace those that were lost in the last decades of the 1900s: see here http://tinyurl.com/y3a5t6mm That is what persuaded Macmillan and Heath that we should join the EEC, the country was a floundering mess. If that foreign investment now leaves, as is becoming evident, who will employ those thousands who work in their factories now? If the investment goes, the banks will follow, because they feed on the investment. The UK economy is 80% services, and services are generally high earning but low cost businesses. Manufacturing is slow to react because the "up front" costs are so high, and their set up times so long. Services turn on a sixpence because their "up front" costs are low, and their set up times so short. There is a turning point, and once it is reached there is an exodus, followed by an economic collapse. The economic canary has now stopped singing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Seeing as they're all self employed I cant see how I could :-S ......... But they did all vote for Brexit B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 3:34 PM The UK economy is 80% services, and services are generally high earning but low cost businesses. Which kinda shows that the UK made the right decisions to focus on services instead of manufacturing like Germany B-) .......... So it's the German canary that is in danger of losing its trill :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:01 PM...……….. 1 Brexit has nothing to do with International businesses getting ready for a recession and restructuring *-) ......... 2 It's just provided them with a useful whipping post ;-) ........ 3 Do you actually think canceling Brexit will make a blind bit of difference??? 8-) ......... 1 It does, but you refuse to see it. What the international businesses are seeing is that when the recession comes, Britain will be worse affected as a result of Brexit than other countries, and so will take longer to recover - especially if we Brexit with no deal. But look at how many are relocating into mainland Europe. How does that equate to them seeing the decline of Europe and the renaissance of the UK that you so love opining on? 2 So consider, why do they want that whipping post? See last sentence above! 3 Difference to what? To the damage that has already been done (which you seem to think advantageous): no, those jobs have gone. Too late. To the damage yet to be done, yes, by minimising the outflow and so the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 3:34 PM If that foreign investment now leaves, as is becoming evident, who will employ those thousands who work in their factories now? If the investment goes, the banks will follow, because they feed on the investment. Seeing as the car industry prefers government bungs for finance ;-) ......... I doubt them leaving will have much affect on the banks *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:47 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Seeing as they're all self employed I cant see how I could :-S ......... Emboldened the words to make it easier for you to understand what i asked you. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 3:53 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:01 PM...……….. 1 Brexit has nothing to do with International businesses getting ready for a recession and restructuring *-) ......... 2 It's just provided them with a useful whipping post ;-) ........ 3 Do you actually think canceling Brexit will make a blind bit of difference??? 8-) ......... 1 It does, but you refuse to see it. What the international businesses are seeing is that when the recession comes, Britain will be worse affected as a result of Brexit than other countries, and so will take longer to recover - especially if we Brexit with no deal. But look at how many are relocating into mainland Europe. How does that equate to them seeing the decline of Europe and the renaissance of the UK that you so love opining on? 2 So consider, why do they want that whipping post? See last sentence above! 3 Difference to what? To the damage that has already been done (which you seem to think advantageous): no, those jobs have gone. Too late. To the damage yet to be done, yes, by minimising the outflow and so the damage. 1......Que?........Seeing as the UK is doing better than much of the EU in spite of Brexit :-S ........ 2......They want a whipping post because it sounds better than telling staff that they're getting the sack because some bloke in Slovakia will work for peanuts and their government has offered them millions to move *-) ......... 3.......The damage you refer to was going to happen as soon as governments starting blaming diesels for global warming ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:47 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Seeing as they're all self employed I cant see how I could :-S ......... But they did all vote for Brexit B-) ......... What, you really think the self-employed can't lose their employment? When people don't have money to spend, the self-employed lose their employment - mostly by becoming bankrupt. Then they generally look for work elsewhere, just like all those others who have lost their jobs. Problem then is: no jobs. No job, no income, no money for the mortgage, no home, no food banks - because the better off are no longer better off so no donations. The streets are cold, hard, places, Dave. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:56 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:47 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Seeing as they're all self employed I cant see how I could :-S ......... Emboldened the words to make it easier for you to understand what i asked you. Try again. Yep ;-) ..........Because I voted for what will be best for the UK B-) ......... Just as THEY DID :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-02-19 4:03 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:47 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Seeing as they're all self employed I cant see how I could :-S ......... But they did all vote for Brexit B-) ......... What, you really think the self-employed can't lose their employment? When people don't have money to spend, the self-employed lose their employment - mostly by becoming bankrupt. Then they generally look for work elsewhere, just like all those others who have lost their jobs. Problem then is: no jobs. No job, no income, no money for the mortgage, no home, no food banks - because the better off are no longer better off so no donations. The streets are cold, hard, places, Dave. Get real. Remind me of your experience of being self employed Brian? *-) .......... My families been self employed for 4 generations, so we have plenty of experience of surviving downturns ;-) ........... So I dont need to get real.......reality is in my DNA B-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-02-19 4:04 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:56 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:47 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Seeing as they're all self employed I cant see how I could :-S ......... Emboldened the words to make it easier for you to understand what i asked you. Try again. Yep ;-) ........... So you'd willingly put a member of your own family out of work just to get what you want. Staggering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 4:13 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 4:04 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:56 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 3:47 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 3:42 PM pelmetman - 2019-02-19 2:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-02-19 2:35 PM I'm afraid until it directly impacts on those individuals lives they won't ever accept they got it wrong. When a father was asked why he'd voted Brexit with a son who worked at Airbus, he replied, "so what....i voted for what i want, not for him", you realise how selfish some people are. The father of course was a retired pensioner. It was ever thus ;-) ...........The majority votes for what is best for them :D ............. So using the same example......you'd vote your own family member out of a job? *-) Seeing as they're all self employed I cant see how I could :-S ......... Emboldened the words to make it easier for you to understand what i asked you. Try again. Yep ;-) ........... So you'd willingly put a member of your own family out of work just to get what you want. Staggering. Yep.......we all voted for what's best for the country.........we're not selfish like you Remoaners >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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