Barryd999 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-08-25 6:22 PM There doesn’t need to be a hard boarder as many have commented there are various electronic & technical ways to do lt. Great! Lets see em then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 6:49 PM jumpstart - 2019-08-25 6:22 PM There doesn’t need to be a hard boarder as many have commented there are various electronic & technical ways to do lt. Great! Lets see em then. Haven't you heard? McVey has all that sorted with "invisible" borders. (lol) https://news.sky.com/video/esther-mcvey-on-brexit-we-can-do-invisible-border-in-ireland-11728782 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 6:49 PM jumpstart - 2019-08-25 6:22 PM There doesn’t need to be a hard boarder as many have commented there are various electronic & technical ways to do lt. Great! Lets see em then. TIR-EPD enough said *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 teflon2 - 2019-08-25 8:20 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 6:49 PM jumpstart - 2019-08-25 6:22 PM There doesn’t need to be a hard boarder as many have commented there are various electronic & technical ways to do lt. Great! Lets see em then. TIR-EPD enough said *-) I refer you to my earlier questions Well in that case why don't they agree to the backstop as it will never be needed? And how do you suggest you stop all these migrants flooding across the ROI / NI border or do you think that passport control should be between NI and the mainland? Are you going to tag the locals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-08-25 8:28 PM teflon2 - 2019-08-25 8:20 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 6:49 PM jumpstart - 2019-08-25 6:22 PM There doesn’t need to be a hard boarder as many have commented there are various electronic & technical ways to do lt. Great! Lets see em then. TIR-EPD enough said *-) I refer you to my earlier questions Well in that case why don't they agree to the backstop as it will never be needed? And how do you suggest you stop all these migrants flooding across the ROI / NI border or do you think that passport control should be between NI and the mainland? Are you going to tag the locals? I was responding to Barrie as for you I deign that only a fool argues with an idiot. (!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 teflon2 - 2019-08-25 8:52 PM Fast Pat - 2019-08-25 8:28 PM teflon2 - 2019-08-25 8:20 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 6:49 PM jumpstart - 2019-08-25 6:22 PM There doesn’t need to be a hard boarder as many have commented there are various electronic & technical ways to do lt. Great! Lets see em then. TIR-EPD enough said *-) I refer you to my earlier questions Well in that case why don't they agree to the backstop as it will never be needed? And how do you suggest you stop all these migrants flooding across the ROI / NI border or do you think that passport control should be between NI and the mainland? Are you going to tag the locals? I was responding to Barrie as for you I deign that only a fool argues with an idiot. (!) Or someone who hasn't got an answer to a simple question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-08-25 8:28 PM And how do you suggest you stop all these migrants flooding across the ROI / NI border or do you think that passport control should be between NI and the mainland? Are you going to tag the locals? Migrants?..........are you really suggesting migrants are going to paddle all the way to Ireland to sneak into the UK???? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... As for the locals ;-) ........The EU already has a system in place for those who have a border with non EU countries >:-) ........... "A Local Border Traffic Regime Search for available translations of the preceding linkEN••• has been established for border residents who frequently need to cross the external borders of the Union. It enables EU States to conclude bilateral agreements with their neighbouring non-EU countries so that the border residents can travel back and forth without a Schengen visa and, therefore, without any impediment to trade, social and cultural interchange in the region concerned." https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/border-crossing_en Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. Nope........I said the real IRA has carried on attacking folk since the GFA was signed.........and I have said there is a Global recession coming........both of which are correct :-| ........... It's you Losers who are desperate to link them to Brexit ;-) ............ Which just shows how pathetic you lot are *-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:16 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts I did explain that to you yesterday I believe. The violence has indeed pretty much stopped as you were also shown the other day. Since the GFA the number if incidents and terrorist attacks has been minuscule in comparison to before. It is true that its still there bubbling under the surface which is why its such a tinder box and why a hard border and a trashed economy in NI could well kick it all off. With the GFA then breached because of Brexit all bets are off! False concern? You think Im not bothered about the people of NI? Despite me being bothered about anyone being killed regardless of any connection I have good friends from NI, I worked there during the troubles in both the north and south. I also had many friends in the army in the 80s one of whom's army career was ended all too swiftly when he lost an eye in a bomb attack and a guy who was a close work colleague lost two brothers! I remember what it was like. We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times. For a while I was there every month. Now look at the place. Its generally peaceful, it has a tourist industry, house prices rose, Belfast is a beautiful city. Brexit threatens all that so dont tell me I have no connection or that you find my false concern sickening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times.. "Europa Hotel".........kinda ironic that ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-26 10:22 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times.. "Europa Hotel".........kinda ironic that ;-) ......... Yeah I liked the name. Actually I liked the hotel and Belfast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Who, exactly, is "trying to reignite the troubles"? No-one that I'm aware of. I wouldn't even use that jibe against you. If we leave the EU, there will be a hard border between Ireland and NI, because whatever politicians on both sides say they "don't want", it is the inevitable consequence of legally separating the UK from the EU. I asked you way back what your solution to the border was - and answer came there none. Goods passing between bona fide companies on either side of the border will go via bona fide logistics handlers on either side of the border, using major road crossings, will be cleared away from the border, and will be recorded as legally required. To the best of my knowledge, the passage of such goods across that border has never been cited as a reason for terrorism on either side. So, those goods are not the potential problem. OTOH, as I've said before there are 260 odd border crossings, of which a mere handful are major road crossings. Apart from roads, cattle and sheep in fields cross the border every day, people own land on both sides of the border, farm buildings lie on both sides of the border, and people cross the border freely on a daily basis. As soon as the UK applies the "advantages" of Brexit, to change tariffs on goods, to alter taxes on goods, to import goods that do not comply with EU regulations (even though they may comply with UK regulations), there will be a market advantage on one side of the border only, and that market advantage will attract people to cross the border to benefit from it. Those goods (including livestock and agricultural products), plus possibly services, will be seen on the losing side as having been smuggled. With the border wide open as it now is, that will generate pressure from the losers (on whichever side) to prevent the smuggling, and that, in turn, will lead to border controls. If you look at any land border pretty much anywhere in the world, but especially around the EU, you will see border control points. They are there for a reason that is obvious to me, and that is why I say their imposition along the Irish border is inevitable. If you can't see the reason, it can only be because you are selectively blind when you look for it. The establishment of those controls - whoever establishes them - will be the point of ignition. It is illusory to claim, for example, that if the EU installs border controls of some kind the IRA will turn to bombing Brussels and not London, because the controls were not established by the UK government. That is infantile reasoning. The chain is blindingly obvious and very simple. Brexit is a UK decision: border controls were not required before Brexit, therefore it is the UK and Brexit that is the reason for the border controls. Do you really think the IRA (in all its forms) are too stupid to draw that simple conclusion? It isn't going to matter a hoot who establishes whatever control, or whether it says made in London or made in Brussels (or whether it is staffed by people in UK uniforms of EU uniforms), the reason they are there will be obviously Brexit, and the buck for their introduction will stop with the UK. Where else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-08-26 1:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Who, exactly, is "trying to reignite the troubles"? No-one that I'm aware of. I wouldn't even use that jibe against you. If we leave the EU, there will be a hard border between Ireland and NI, because whatever politicians on both sides say they "don't want", it is the inevitable consequence of legally separating the UK from the EU. I asked you way back what your solution to the border was - and answer came there none. Goods passing between bona fide companies on either side of the border will go via bona fide logistics handlers on either side of the border, using major road crossings, will be cleared away from the border, and will be recorded as legally required. To the best of my knowledge, the passage of such goods across that border has never been cited as a reason for terrorism on either side. So, those goods are not the potential problem. OTOH, as I've said before there are 260 odd border crossings, of which a mere handful are major road crossings. Apart from roads, cattle and sheep in fields cross the border every day, people own land on both sides of the border, farm buildings lie on both sides of the border, and people cross the border freely on a daily basis. As soon as the UK applies the "advantages" of Brexit, to change tariffs on goods, to alter taxes on goods, to import goods that do not comply with EU regulations (even though they may comply with UK regulations), there will be a market advantage on one side of the border only, and that market advantage will attract people to cross the border to benefit from it. Those goods (including livestock and agricultural products), plus possibly services, will be seen on the losing side as having been smuggled. With the border wide open as it now is, that will generate pressure from the losers (on whichever side) to prevent the smuggling, and that, in turn, will lead to border controls. If you look at any land border pretty much anywhere in the world, but especially around the EU, you will see border control points. They are there for a reason that is obvious to me, and that is why I say their imposition along the Irish border is inevitable. If you can't see the reason, it can only be because you are selectively blind when you look for it. The establishment of those controls - whoever establishes them - will be the point of ignition. It is illusory to claim, for example, that if the EU installs border controls of some kind the IRA will turn to bombing Brussels and not London, because the controls were not established by the UK government. That is infantile reasoning. The chain is blindingly obvious and very simple. Brexit is a UK decision: border controls were not required before Brexit, therefore it is the UK and Brexit that is the reason for the border controls. Do you really think the IRA (in all its forms) are too stupid to draw that simple conclusion? It isn't going to matter a hoot who establishes whatever control, or whether it says made in London or made in Brussels (or whether it is staffed by people in UK uniforms of EU uniforms), the reason they are there will be obviously Brexit, and the buck for their introduction will stop with the UK. Where else? So we let NI have a referendum ;-) ......... Then the buck stops with them >:-) ......... Problem sorted.....NEXT? :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-26 2:09 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-26 1:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Who, exactly, is "trying to reignite the troubles"? No-one that I'm aware of. I wouldn't even use that jibe against you. If we leave the EU, there will be a hard border between Ireland and NI, because whatever politicians on both sides say they "don't want", it is the inevitable consequence of legally separating the UK from the EU. I asked you way back what your solution to the border was - and answer came there none. Goods passing between bona fide companies on either side of the border will go via bona fide logistics handlers on either side of the border, using major road crossings, will be cleared away from the border, and will be recorded as legally required. To the best of my knowledge, the passage of such goods across that border has never been cited as a reason for terrorism on either side. So, those goods are not the potential problem. OTOH, as I've said before there are 260 odd border crossings, of which a mere handful are major road crossings. Apart from roads, cattle and sheep in fields cross the border every day, people own land on both sides of the border, farm buildings lie on both sides of the border, and people cross the border freely on a daily basis. As soon as the UK applies the "advantages" of Brexit, to change tariffs on goods, to alter taxes on goods, to import goods that do not comply with EU regulations (even though they may comply with UK regulations), there will be a market advantage on one side of the border only, and that market advantage will attract people to cross the border to benefit from it. Those goods (including livestock and agricultural products), plus possibly services, will be seen on the losing side as having been smuggled. With the border wide open as it now is, that will generate pressure from the losers (on whichever side) to prevent the smuggling, and that, in turn, will lead to border controls. If you look at any land border pretty much anywhere in the world, but especially around the EU, you will see border control points. They are there for a reason that is obvious to me, and that is why I say their imposition along the Irish border is inevitable. If you can't see the reason, it can only be because you are selectively blind when you look for it. The establishment of those controls - whoever establishes them - will be the point of ignition. It is illusory to claim, for example, that if the EU installs border controls of some kind the IRA will turn to bombing Brussels and not London, because the controls were not established by the UK government. That is infantile reasoning. The chain is blindingly obvious and very simple. Brexit is a UK decision: border controls were not required before Brexit, therefore it is the UK and Brexit that is the reason for the border controls. Do you really think the IRA (in all its forms) are too stupid to draw that simple conclusion? It isn't going to matter a hoot who establishes whatever control, or whether it says made in London or made in Brussels (or whether it is staffed by people in UK uniforms of EU uniforms), the reason they are there will be obviously Brexit, and the buck for their introduction will stop with the UK. Where else? So we let NI have a referendum ;-) ......... Then the buck stops with them >:-) ......... Problem sorted.....NEXT? :D ......... Really? What would the referendum outcome have to be to achieve that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-08-26 2:28 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-26 2:09 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-26 1:18 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Who, exactly, is "trying to reignite the troubles"? No-one that I'm aware of. I wouldn't even use that jibe against you. If we leave the EU, there will be a hard border between Ireland and NI, because whatever politicians on both sides say they "don't want", it is the inevitable consequence of legally separating the UK from the EU. I asked you way back what your solution to the border was - and answer came there none. Goods passing between bona fide companies on either side of the border will go via bona fide logistics handlers on either side of the border, using major road crossings, will be cleared away from the border, and will be recorded as legally required. To the best of my knowledge, the passage of such goods across that border has never been cited as a reason for terrorism on either side. So, those goods are not the potential problem. OTOH, as I've said before there are 260 odd border crossings, of which a mere handful are major road crossings. Apart from roads, cattle and sheep in fields cross the border every day, people own land on both sides of the border, farm buildings lie on both sides of the border, and people cross the border freely on a daily basis. As soon as the UK applies the "advantages" of Brexit, to change tariffs on goods, to alter taxes on goods, to import goods that do not comply with EU regulations (even though they may comply with UK regulations), there will be a market advantage on one side of the border only, and that market advantage will attract people to cross the border to benefit from it. Those goods (including livestock and agricultural products), plus possibly services, will be seen on the losing side as having been smuggled. With the border wide open as it now is, that will generate pressure from the losers (on whichever side) to prevent the smuggling, and that, in turn, will lead to border controls. If you look at any land border pretty much anywhere in the world, but especially around the EU, you will see border control points. They are there for a reason that is obvious to me, and that is why I say their imposition along the Irish border is inevitable. If you can't see the reason, it can only be because you are selectively blind when you look for it. The establishment of those controls - whoever establishes them - will be the point of ignition. It is illusory to claim, for example, that if the EU installs border controls of some kind the IRA will turn to bombing Brussels and not London, because the controls were not established by the UK government. That is infantile reasoning. The chain is blindingly obvious and very simple. Brexit is a UK decision: border controls were not required before Brexit, therefore it is the UK and Brexit that is the reason for the border controls. Do you really think the IRA (in all its forms) are too stupid to draw that simple conclusion? It isn't going to matter a hoot who establishes whatever control, or whether it says made in London or made in Brussels (or whether it is staffed by people in UK uniforms of EU uniforms), the reason they are there will be obviously Brexit, and the buck for their introduction will stop with the UK. Where else? So we let NI have a referendum ;-) ......... Then the buck stops with them >:-) ......... Problem sorted.....NEXT? :D ......... Really? What would the referendum outcome have to be to achieve that? What ever the majority chose ;-) ..........and after they've had a referendum then us English can have one on whether "we" want to be part of the Union >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:16 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts I did explain that to you yesterday I believe. The violence has indeed pretty much stopped as you were also shown the other day. Since the GFA the number if incidents and terrorist attacks has been minuscule in comparison to before. It is true that its still there bubbling under the surface which is why its such a tinder box and why a hard border and a trashed economy in NI could well kick it all off. With the GFA then breached because of Brexit all bets are off! False concern? You think Im not bothered about the people of NI? Despite me being bothered about anyone being killed regardless of any connection I have good friends from NI, I worked there during the troubles in both the north and south. I also had many friends in the army in the 80s one of whom's army career was ended all too swiftly when he lost an eye in a bomb attack and a guy who was a close work colleague lost two brothers! I remember what it was like. We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times. For a while I was there every month. Now look at the place. Its generally peaceful, it has a tourist industry, house prices rose, Belfast is a beautiful city. Brexit threatens all that so dont tell me I have no connection or that you find my false concern sickening. Barry youve explained nothing ... Ive asked you why a border that looks more likely by the day as being a soft border even in a no deal situation will take us back to a "war" in your words and with that "war" I presume bombs on the mainland again ??? Please tell me the great uneducated why we will return to those days because of that , no guff or bluster or Barryvision just facts please ... As for your Europa Hotel guff who gives a crap youve stayed in a hotel long after the ceasefire that was heavily targeted during the troubles , a hotel that underwent a multi-million pound re-fit before the ceasefire by the way ... Do you not know a tourist industry existed in NI before any ceasefire , my in-laws holidayed at least twice a year since the 70s in both Irelands ... You offer nothing to back up your usual Hollywood style claims , for once , just once back up what you claim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Brian there is already a white paper that proposes our relationship with the Eu, which allows for free movement of Eu citizens except if the want to work then they need a work permit.. Illigal immigration is a different problem but no less illegal in the Eu ( except France doesn’t give much of a toot about it ,see all the different nationals at Calais)However it’s not to easy to pop over to Ireland in a rubber dinghy. As far as trade is concerned there are various methods out there without having a hard boarder. Some illigal immigration will take place,it does now. Once there is a trade deal it’s all in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:53 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:16 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts I did explain that to you yesterday I believe. The violence has indeed pretty much stopped as you were also shown the other day. Since the GFA the number if incidents and terrorist attacks has been minuscule in comparison to before. It is true that its still there bubbling under the surface which is why its such a tinder box and why a hard border and a trashed economy in NI could well kick it all off. With the GFA then breached because of Brexit all bets are off! False concern? You think Im not bothered about the people of NI? Despite me being bothered about anyone being killed regardless of any connection I have good friends from NI, I worked there during the troubles in both the north and south. I also had many friends in the army in the 80s one of whom's army career was ended all too swiftly when he lost an eye in a bomb attack and a guy who was a close work colleague lost two brothers! I remember what it was like. We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times. For a while I was there every month. Now look at the place. Its generally peaceful, it has a tourist industry, house prices rose, Belfast is a beautiful city. Brexit threatens all that so dont tell me I have no connection or that you find my false concern sickening. Barry youve explained nothing ... Ive asked you why a border that looks more likely by the day as being a soft border even in a no deal situation will take us back to a "war" in your words and with that "war" I presume bombs on the mainland again ??? Please tell me the great uneducated why we will return to those days because of that , no guff or bluster or Barryvision just facts please ... As for your Europa Hotel guff who gives a crap youve stayed in a hotel long after the ceasefire that was heavily targeted during the troubles , a hotel that underwent a multi-million pound re-fit before the ceasefire by the way ... Do you not know a tourist industry existed in NI before any ceasefire , my in-laws holidayed at least twice a year since the 70s in both Irelands ... You offer nothing to back up your usual Hollywood style claims , for once , just once back up what you claim No Mr Birdbrain. All my time in NI was spent in the height of the troubles before the GFA. The hotel in fact never blew up while I was in it but did the day after I and my colleague left once. I still enjoyed Belfast though but maybe in my 20s I was a bit naive to what was going on. I do remember when something was going to kick off though, people seemed to know. On my first trip I remember the streets suddenly emptying of people quietly. How odd thought I. I just carried on shopping looking for a bit of Irish tat to take home as a souvenir. Next thing I know a load of armoured cars come flying round the corner, a building not ten yard from where I am stood is stormed a load of bangs go off and some blokes get dragged off and thrown in the vans. Ten minutes later its business as usual. I learned a fair bit in the many times I was there and got to know and make friends with many Irish people both sides of the border but it was a fecking dangerous place to be and two 20 something English types wandering around in suits we were told on several occasions was not a great idea in certain parts. On one occasion we had to go to a dodgy end of Belfast to see a journo and our taxi diver refused to drive us all the way saying as we were clearly military or British government we were a target and he dumped us. I sh1t you not. The journo had to come and pick us up. All that has for the most gone now as has any of the real atrocities and yes "war" we experienced but rightly or wrongly Brexit now threatens that. Have Brexit if you must but agree to a solution that does not fcuk with the peace process in NI, your USA deal is also fubared without that anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 26, 2019 Share Posted August 26, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:45 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:53 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:16 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts I did explain that to you yesterday I believe. The violence has indeed pretty much stopped as you were also shown the other day. Since the GFA the number if incidents and terrorist attacks has been minuscule in comparison to before. It is true that its still there bubbling under the surface which is why its such a tinder box and why a hard border and a trashed economy in NI could well kick it all off. With the GFA then breached because of Brexit all bets are off! False concern? You think Im not bothered about the people of NI? Despite me being bothered about anyone being killed regardless of any connection I have good friends from NI, I worked there during the troubles in both the north and south. I also had many friends in the army in the 80s one of whom's army career was ended all too swiftly when he lost an eye in a bomb attack and a guy who was a close work colleague lost two brothers! I remember what it was like. We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times. For a while I was there every month. Now look at the place. Its generally peaceful, it has a tourist industry, house prices rose, Belfast is a beautiful city. Brexit threatens all that so dont tell me I have no connection or that you find my false concern sickening. Barry youve explained nothing ... Ive asked you why a border that looks more likely by the day as being a soft border even in a no deal situation will take us back to a "war" in your words and with that "war" I presume bombs on the mainland again ??? Please tell me the great uneducated why we will return to those days because of that , no guff or bluster or Barryvision just facts please ... As for your Europa Hotel guff who gives a crap youve stayed in a hotel long after the ceasefire that was heavily targeted during the troubles , a hotel that underwent a multi-million pound re-fit before the ceasefire by the way ... Do you not know a tourist industry existed in NI before any ceasefire , my in-laws holidayed at least twice a year since the 70s in both Irelands ... You offer nothing to back up your usual Hollywood style claims , for once , just once back up what you claim No Mr Birdbrain. All my time in NI was spent in the height of the troubles before the GFA. The hotel in fact never blew up while I was in it but did the day after I and my colleague left once. I still enjoyed Belfast though but maybe in my 20s I was a bit naive to what was going on. I do remember when something was going to kick off though, people seemed to know. On my first trip I remember the streets suddenly emptying of people quietly. How odd thought I. I just carried on shopping looking for a bit of Irish tat to take home as a souvenir. Next thing I know a load of armoured cars come flying round the corner, a building not ten yard from where I am stood is stormed a load of bangs go off and some blokes get dragged off and thrown in the vans. Ten minutes later its business as usual. I learned a fair bit in the many times I was there and got to know and make friends with many Irish people both sides of the border but it was a fecking dangerous place to be and two 20 something English types wandering around in suits we were told on several occasions was not a great idea in certain parts. On one occasion we had to go to a dodgy end of Belfast to see a journo and our taxi diver refused to drive us all the way saying as we were clearly military or British government we were a target and he dumped us. I sh1t you not. The journo had to come and pick us up. All that has for the most gone now as has any of the real atrocities and yes "war" we experienced but rightly or wrongly Brexit now threatens that. Have Brexit if you must but agree to a solution that does not fcuk with the peace process in NI, your USA deal is also fubared without that anyway. Have to say the hypocrisy of you Remoaners is really quite staggering *-) ........... You're happy to turn a blind eye to the actual robbery's rapes & murders carried out by 1000's of EU criminals :-| .......... Then you go all Hollywood about a hypothetical increase in IRA crimes 8-) ......... What a bunch of desperate LOSERS you lot are >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:45 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:53 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:16 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts I did explain that to you yesterday I believe. The violence has indeed pretty much stopped as you were also shown the other day. Since the GFA the number if incidents and terrorist attacks has been minuscule in comparison to before. It is true that its still there bubbling under the surface which is why its such a tinder box and why a hard border and a trashed economy in NI could well kick it all off. With the GFA then breached because of Brexit all bets are off! False concern? You think Im not bothered about the people of NI? Despite me being bothered about anyone being killed regardless of any connection I have good friends from NI, I worked there during the troubles in both the north and south. I also had many friends in the army in the 80s one of whom's army career was ended all too swiftly when he lost an eye in a bomb attack and a guy who was a close work colleague lost two brothers! I remember what it was like. We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times. For a while I was there every month. Now look at the place. Its generally peaceful, it has a tourist industry, house prices rose, Belfast is a beautiful city. Brexit threatens all that so dont tell me I have no connection or that you find my false concern sickening. Barry youve explained nothing ... Ive asked you why a border that looks more likely by the day as being a soft border even in a no deal situation will take us back to a "war" in your words and with that "war" I presume bombs on the mainland again ??? Please tell me the great uneducated why we will return to those days because of that , no guff or bluster or Barryvision just facts please ... As for your Europa Hotel guff who gives a crap youve stayed in a hotel long after the ceasefire that was heavily targeted during the troubles , a hotel that underwent a multi-million pound re-fit before the ceasefire by the way ... Do you not know a tourist industry existed in NI before any ceasefire , my in-laws holidayed at least twice a year since the 70s in both Irelands ... You offer nothing to back up your usual Hollywood style claims , for once , just once back up what you claim No Mr Birdbrain. All my time in NI was spent in the height of the troubles before the GFA. The hotel in fact never blew up while I was in it but did the day after I and my colleague left once. I still enjoyed Belfast though but maybe in my 20s I was a bit naive to what was going on. I do remember when something was going to kick off though, people seemed to know. On my first trip I remember the streets suddenly emptying of people quietly. How odd thought I. I just carried on shopping looking for a bit of Irish tat to take home as a souvenir. Next thing I know a load of armoured cars come flying round the corner, a building not ten yard from where I am stood is stormed a load of bangs go off and some blokes get dragged off and thrown in the vans. Ten minutes later its business as usual. I learned a fair bit in the many times I was there and got to know and make friends with many Irish people both sides of the border but it was a fecking dangerous place to be and two 20 something English types wandering around in suits we were told on several occasions was not a great idea in certain parts. On one occasion we had to go to a dodgy end of Belfast to see a journo and our taxi diver refused to drive us all the way saying as we were clearly military or British government we were a target and he dumped us. I sh1t you not. The journo had to come and pick us up. All that has for the most gone now as has any of the real atrocities and yes "war" we experienced but rightly or wrongly Brexit now threatens that. Have Brexit if you must but agree to a solution that does not fcuk with the peace process in NI, your USA deal is also fubared without that anyway. Im curios ... You certainly weren't early 20s when you stayed in The Europa from things youve said before so the 91 bombing of the hotel cant be the one your talking about so we must assume it would be the last bombing of the hotel in 93 which was the largest bombing of it and forcing it to shut ??? ... You STILL haven't offered anything , nothing to say why we will be back at "war" with a no deal Brexit ??? ... C'mon your better than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-08-27 6:28 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:45 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:53 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:16 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts I did explain that to you yesterday I believe. The violence has indeed pretty much stopped as you were also shown the other day. Since the GFA the number if incidents and terrorist attacks has been minuscule in comparison to before. It is true that its still there bubbling under the surface which is why its such a tinder box and why a hard border and a trashed economy in NI could well kick it all off. With the GFA then breached because of Brexit all bets are off! False concern? You think Im not bothered about the people of NI? Despite me being bothered about anyone being killed regardless of any connection I have good friends from NI, I worked there during the troubles in both the north and south. I also had many friends in the army in the 80s one of whom's army career was ended all too swiftly when he lost an eye in a bomb attack and a guy who was a close work colleague lost two brothers! I remember what it was like. We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times. For a while I was there every month. Now look at the place. Its generally peaceful, it has a tourist industry, house prices rose, Belfast is a beautiful city. Brexit threatens all that so dont tell me I have no connection or that you find my false concern sickening. Barry youve explained nothing ... Ive asked you why a border that looks more likely by the day as being a soft border even in a no deal situation will take us back to a "war" in your words and with that "war" I presume bombs on the mainland again ??? Please tell me the great uneducated why we will return to those days because of that , no guff or bluster or Barryvision just facts please ... As for your Europa Hotel guff who gives a crap youve stayed in a hotel long after the ceasefire that was heavily targeted during the troubles , a hotel that underwent a multi-million pound re-fit before the ceasefire by the way ... Do you not know a tourist industry existed in NI before any ceasefire , my in-laws holidayed at least twice a year since the 70s in both Irelands ... You offer nothing to back up your usual Hollywood style claims , for once , just once back up what you claim No Mr Birdbrain. All my time in NI was spent in the height of the troubles before the GFA. The hotel in fact never blew up while I was in it but did the day after I and my colleague left once. I still enjoyed Belfast though but maybe in my 20s I was a bit naive to what was going on. I do remember when something was going to kick off though, people seemed to know. On my first trip I remember the streets suddenly emptying of people quietly. How odd thought I. I just carried on shopping looking for a bit of Irish tat to take home as a souvenir. Next thing I know a load of armoured cars come flying round the corner, a building not ten yard from where I am stood is stormed a load of bangs go off and some blokes get dragged off and thrown in the vans. Ten minutes later its business as usual. I learned a fair bit in the many times I was there and got to know and make friends with many Irish people both sides of the border but it was a fecking dangerous place to be and two 20 something English types wandering around in suits we were told on several occasions was not a great idea in certain parts. On one occasion we had to go to a dodgy end of Belfast to see a journo and our taxi diver refused to drive us all the way saying as we were clearly military or British government we were a target and he dumped us. I sh1t you not. The journo had to come and pick us up. All that has for the most gone now as has any of the real atrocities and yes "war" we experienced but rightly or wrongly Brexit now threatens that. Have Brexit if you must but agree to a solution that does not fcuk with the peace process in NI, your USA deal is also fubared without that anyway. Im curios ... You certainly weren't early 20s when you stayed in The Europa from things youve said before so the 91 bombing of the hotel cant be the one your talking about so we must assume it would be the last bombing of the hotel in 93 which was the largest bombing of it and forcing it to shut ??? ... You STILL haven't offered anything , nothing to say why we will be back at "war" with a no deal Brexit ??? ... C'mon your better than this My work took me to Ireland (both north and south from around 1990 to 2001. I never said early 20s but I was 23/24 when I first went to Belfast. We treated the bombing thing of the hotel like a bit of a joke really back in the office which seems a bit odd now. I have told you several times why I think there will be a return to violence and terrorism. If you choose to ignore that then thats up to you. Here is an idea though. If a technical solution is so easy then why dont we just stay until Boris delivers it? Everyone will be happy then. The yanks, Irish, Brexiteers, remainers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-27 9:14 AM Birdbrain - 2019-08-27 6:28 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:45 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:53 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-26 8:34 AM Birdbrain - 2019-08-26 6:16 AM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 5:15 PM Birdbrain - 2019-08-25 12:57 PM Barryd999 - 2019-08-25 9:41 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:20 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-24 6:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-23 12:59 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-08-23 12:43 PM Do you remember what was going on during "the troubles"? What makes you think the threat of a re-run has gone away. The powder is still there - all it needs is the flame to ignite it. Fences and border posts will provide that flame. That is what Ireland, the EU, and even the Americans can see. Why do you assume they are all wrong? Seems to me the only folk trying to fan the flames are you Remoaners *-) .......... This is the same as arguing that the fire brigade lights fires instead of putting them out. You're comparing Remoaners to the wrong brigade Brian ;-) .......... Trying to reignite the "troubles" is a tactic of the....... Loser Brigade *-) .......... Thats a pretty disgusting moronic thing to come out with even for you. I know people who died and were maimed in that bloody war and it was indeed a war. Your bat sh1t crazy nationalist act of self harm will be the catalyst for this tinder box going up and God knows what else. Tell you whats more disgusting is you using those you claim to know who have died and were maimed in some disgraceful scare story of what might happen Barry ... You have offered nothing to say why Brexit will ignite the troubles again and you use the word war so that war I presume will mean British soldiers again at war in Ireland because of Brexit ... Nows your chance Barry tell why it will ignite the troubles ??? "claimed"? That insinuates I am making it up. I cannot believe that after all this time you do not know why a hard border could lead to a return to the troubles in NI. The return of a border that was always a flashpoint for those that wanted reunification will once again be another target especially if it ends up being manned with British troops. Its actually written into the GFA that there can be no hard border and our own EU withdrawal act that a hard border cannot and will not be put up as a result. Of course this was easy to implement while we are / were all members of the EU. Dave is trying to make out that the violence never stopped in the same way he is telling us a recession is coming anyway to make out that when both happen its not Brexits fault but you would have to be mental to believe that. The troubles pre 98 and GFA were appalling and whichever way you try and square it Brexit will likely kick all that off again. Doesnt matter who puts the border up either. It shouldnt happen but of course it will. It wont end at the border either. Trade will be massively disrupted in NI as will their economy which will only add fuel to the fire. All in the name of something which will only turn out to be the biggest act of self harm in our history. Dave is right the violence has never stopped and if you really cared for NI then you'd know that and thats why your false concern for the place is so sickening ... Your war dig and claims of deaths of those that you know is a real shocker and blaming Brexit voters for any return to 80s levels terrorism and deaths ... You haven't explained why the terrorism will return to the 70/80s levels we all remember because of a border all sides have said they have no intention of enforcing ... Educate me for once with facts I did explain that to you yesterday I believe. The violence has indeed pretty much stopped as you were also shown the other day. Since the GFA the number if incidents and terrorist attacks has been minuscule in comparison to before. It is true that its still there bubbling under the surface which is why its such a tinder box and why a hard border and a trashed economy in NI could well kick it all off. With the GFA then breached because of Brexit all bets are off! False concern? You think Im not bothered about the people of NI? Despite me being bothered about anyone being killed regardless of any connection I have good friends from NI, I worked there during the troubles in both the north and south. I also had many friends in the army in the 80s one of whom's army career was ended all too swiftly when he lost an eye in a bomb attack and a guy who was a close work colleague lost two brothers! I remember what it was like. We used to stay in the Europa Hotel in Belfast which at one point was the most bombed hotel in the world having been blown up 36 times. For a while I was there every month. Now look at the place. Its generally peaceful, it has a tourist industry, house prices rose, Belfast is a beautiful city. Brexit threatens all that so dont tell me I have no connection or that you find my false concern sickening. Barry youve explained nothing ... Ive asked you why a border that looks more likely by the day as being a soft border even in a no deal situation will take us back to a "war" in your words and with that "war" I presume bombs on the mainland again ??? Please tell me the great uneducated why we will return to those days because of that , no guff or bluster or Barryvision just facts please ... As for your Europa Hotel guff who gives a crap youve stayed in a hotel long after the ceasefire that was heavily targeted during the troubles , a hotel that underwent a multi-million pound re-fit before the ceasefire by the way ... Do you not know a tourist industry existed in NI before any ceasefire , my in-laws holidayed at least twice a year since the 70s in both Irelands ... You offer nothing to back up your usual Hollywood style claims , for once , just once back up what you claim No Mr Birdbrain. All my time in NI was spent in the height of the troubles before the GFA. The hotel in fact never blew up while I was in it but did the day after I and my colleague left once. I still enjoyed Belfast though but maybe in my 20s I was a bit naive to what was going on. I do remember when something was going to kick off though, people seemed to know. On my first trip I remember the streets suddenly emptying of people quietly. How odd thought I. I just carried on shopping looking for a bit of Irish tat to take home as a souvenir. Next thing I know a load of armoured cars come flying round the corner, a building not ten yard from where I am stood is stormed a load of bangs go off and some blokes get dragged off and thrown in the vans. Ten minutes later its business as usual. I learned a fair bit in the many times I was there and got to know and make friends with many Irish people both sides of the border but it was a fecking dangerous place to be and two 20 something English types wandering around in suits we were told on several occasions was not a great idea in certain parts. On one occasion we had to go to a dodgy end of Belfast to see a journo and our taxi diver refused to drive us all the way saying as we were clearly military or British government we were a target and he dumped us. I sh1t you not. The journo had to come and pick us up. All that has for the most gone now as has any of the real atrocities and yes "war" we experienced but rightly or wrongly Brexit now threatens that. Have Brexit if you must but agree to a solution that does not fcuk with the peace process in NI, your USA deal is also fubared without that anyway. Im curios ... You certainly weren't early 20s when you stayed in The Europa from things youve said before so the 91 bombing of the hotel cant be the one your talking about so we must assume it would be the last bombing of the hotel in 93 which was the largest bombing of it and forcing it to shut ??? ... You STILL haven't offered anything , nothing to say why we will be back at "war" with a no deal Brexit ??? ... C'mon your better than this My work took me to Ireland (both north and south from around 1990 to 2001. I never said early 20s but I was 23/24 when I first went to Belfast. We treated the bombing thing of the hotel like a bit of a joke really back in the office which seems a bit odd now. I have told you several times why I think there will be a return to violence and terrorism. If you choose to ignore that then thats up to you. Here is an idea though. If a technical solution is so easy then why dont we just stay until Boris delivers it? Everyone will be happy then. The yanks, Irish, Brexiteers, remainers. You haven't told me why a no-deal Irish border that all sides have said they will not enforce will lead to "war" in the UK at all ... Thats a fib Barry ... Lets try again or if you dont want to try again we can leave it where obviously you know nothing of the fear your trying to put up folks with Barryvision guff ... Heres a better idea to yours why dont we leave not enforce the border as has been said umpteen times by all sides and work on a technical solution if its needed ??? Everyone will be happy then apart from Remoaners Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-08-27 9:14 AM I have told you several times why I think there will be a return to violence and terrorism. If you choose to ignore that then thats up to you. Your thinking as per usual makes no sense *-) .......... The old IRA wont kick off because Brexit will help them achieve reunification..... all they need to force is a referendum ;-) ......... The math is on their side........Catholics majority + Remoaner surrender monkeys = Reunification :D ....... Which is the real reason the Irish government is sh*t scared of Brexit >:-) .......... They will get what they've wished for..........ownership of the Hornets nest formerly known as Northern Ireland 8-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-25 9:34 PM Fast Pat - 2019-08-25 8:28 PM And how do you suggest you stop all these migrants flooding across the ROI / NI border or do you think that passport control should be between NI and the mainland? Are you going to tag the locals? Migrants?..........are you really suggesting migrants are going to paddle all the way to Ireland to sneak into the UK???? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... As for the locals ;-) ........The EU already has a system in place for those who have a border with non EU countries >:-) ........... "A Local Border Traffic Regime Search for available translations of the preceding linkEN••• has been established for border residents who frequently need to cross the external borders of the Union. It enables EU States to conclude bilateral agreements with their neighbouring non-EU countries so that the border residents can travel back and forth without a Schengen visa and, therefore, without any impediment to trade, social and cultural interchange in the region concerned." https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/border-crossing_en More unicorns! :-D You've mentioned this scheme before, but you've forgotten that in response I drew your attention to the EU website where it clearly showed a border guard, outside a border post, inspecting the ID of a person using that scheme. See, border guard, border post, and inspect ID. How else could anyone know who was wanting to cross the border, and whether they were eligible? That is all it would take to light the fuse. Blimey, this don't 'arf get 'ard sometimes. Little grey cells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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