Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) So the forums intelligentsia thinks the No 1 disadvantage of not being in the EU is "NO REBATE" 8-) ...... >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM 2 Join Euro. Like Poland did? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM 3 Join Schengen. Is that the same Schengen Zone that folk from South America & Russia are not part of? ;-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) And your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) And your point is? No rebate? ;-) ....... If we rejoin like all the other countries who have joined recently.......We'll be quids in B-) ....... So wont need a rebate :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:25 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) So the forums intelligentsia thinks the No 1 disadvantage of not being in the EU is "NO REBATE" 8-) ...… >:-) ....... Have you actually read your own post of 08:26 this morning? "Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now?" Answer as I replied. We now get a rebate on our contributions, which otherwise would be higher that they are. If we were to re-join after leaving it is extremely unlikely we should get that rebate reinstated, so we would be worse off on re-joining that we are now? Surely you can understand that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:44 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:25 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) So the forums intelligentsia thinks the No 1 disadvantage of not being in the EU is "NO REBATE" 8-) ...… >:-) ....... Have you actually read your own post of 08:26 this morning? "Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now?" Answer as I replied. We now get a rebate on our contributions, which otherwise would be higher that they are. If we were to re-join after leaving it is extremely unlikely we should get that rebate reinstated, so we would be worse off on re-joining that we are now? Surely you can understand that? Why would we want to rejoin a club where we pay to get screwed? ;-) ........ Maybe that's your thing Brian 8-) ........ But it deffo ain't mine >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:28 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM 2 Join Euro. Like Poland did? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... You don't have the first idea what the EU is, or how it works, do you? Yet you are sure you want to leave. Is that just because it is too complicated for you to understand, so you want it to go away? Poland, and all the states that joined at the same time are bound by their accession treaties to adopt the Euro. The reason many have not yet done so is because the timing depends on the rate of harmonisation of their economies with those of the other, more economically states. As yet, Poland and the EU agree that Poland is not ready. I thought you knew so much about the EU that you knew why you want to leave? Clearly we were both wrong on that score! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:39 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) And your point is? No rebate? ;-) ....... If we rejoin like all the other countries who have joined recently.......We'll be quids in B-) ....... So wont need a rebate :D ......... Explain. How would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:50 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:44 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:25 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) So the forums intelligentsia thinks the No 1 disadvantage of not being in the EU is "NO REBATE" 8-) ...… >:-) ....... Have you actually read your own post of 08:26 this morning? "Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now?" Answer as I replied. We now get a rebate on our contributions, which otherwise would be higher that they are. If we were to re-join after leaving it is extremely unlikely we should get that rebate reinstated, so we would be worse off on re-joining that we are now? Surely you can understand that? Why would we want to rejoin a club where we pay to get screwed? ;-) ........ Maybe that's your thing Brian 8-) ........ But it deffo ain't mine >:-) ....... Not mine either. You just don't get this at all, do you? You don't know what you want to leave, or why. I'm not wasting any more of my time trying to talk sense to you, it simply isn't possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 It wasn't what we voted for Brian, you actually say so in the first couple of lines of your posting. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:55 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:39 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:34 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) And your point is? No rebate? ;-) ....... If we rejoin like all the other countries who have joined recently.......We'll be quids in B-) ....... So wont need a rebate :D ......... Explain. How would that be? Would you rejoin a club where you are expected to pick the bill for others? 8-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:59 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:50 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:44 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:25 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:21 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 8:26 AM pelmetman - 2019-09-26 9:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-26 5:42 PM jumpstart - 2019-09-24 7:00 AM Are these that same economists who didn’t predict the last economic crash? It is not written in stone that we would not be allowed to rejoin if the populous wanted it. A crash caused by what, exactly? Go on, I dare you! :-) Who said it was written in stone? But were we to seek to rejoin, would we get such beneficial terms as we now have? What would be the point of leaving, suffering the economic loss, and then re-joining on less favourable terms? Less favourable terms?????????????????? (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... I'd happily rejoin on the same terms as.......... "Hungary, Lithuania, Greece and Malta which all receive much more money from the EU than they pay in themselves" >:-) ............. https://inews.co.uk/news/charts/much-uk-pays-eu-much-get-back-537626 Bump :D ............ Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now? >:-) ......... Easy, I'm surprised you don't already know, since you seem to know exactly why we should leave. 1 No rebate. 2 Join Euro. 3 Join Schengen. Those are the terms on which all the later countries have had to join. So, a bit difficult to make an exception for the UK? Especially when our departure, if it happens, will have cost all other EU member states millions. You also seem to overlook the reason why we might want to re-join. If we leave, and the economists turn out to be right and the economy tanks, we shall be wanting to re-join to save our economic bacon. Good bargaining hand when wanting back all our old opt outs and rebate? In your dreams, baby! :-D 1.......No rebate?............ (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) So the forums intelligentsia thinks the No 1 disadvantage of not being in the EU is "NO REBATE" 8-) ...… >:-) ....... Have you actually read your own post of 08:26 this morning? "Obviously Brian cant explain how our terms will be less favourable than they are now?" Answer as I replied. We now get a rebate on our contributions, which otherwise would be higher that they are. If we were to re-join after leaving it is extremely unlikely we should get that rebate reinstated, so we would be worse off on re-joining that we are now? Surely you can understand that? Why would we want to rejoin a club where we pay to get screwed? ;-) ........ Maybe that's your thing Brian 8-) ........ But it deffo ain't mine >:-) ....... Not mine either. You just don't get this at all, do you? You don't know what you want to leave, or why. I'm not wasting any more of my time trying to talk sense to you, it simply isn't possible. Correct ;-) ....... It's not possible to convince me why we should be a EU meal ticket >:-) ........... Perhaps you'll have better luck with the 17,410,741 others :D........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 8:53 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 6:28 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 6:15 PM 2 Join Euro. Like Poland did? (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... You don't have the first idea what the EU is, or how it works, do you? Yet you are sure you want to leave. Is that just because it is too complicated for you to understand, so you want it to go away? Poland, and all the states that joined at the same time are bound by their accession treaties to adopt the Euro. The reason many have not yet done so is because the timing depends on the rate of harmonisation of their economies with those of the other, more economically states. As yet, Poland and the EU agree that Poland is not ready. I thought you knew so much about the EU that you knew why you want to leave? Clearly we were both wrong on that score! :-D I recall being in France when we got kicked out of the ERM ;-) .......... That was the precursor to the Euro >:-) ......... We had a nightmare for a few days 8-) ......... But.......With hind sight, how lucky were we? B-) .......... So I know the score ;-) ........It's UK 1 .......Euro 0 (lol) (lol) (lol) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Brian skewered you. You're just making an idiot out of yourself now. It's embarrassing. Go off and drown your sorrows in the usual alcohol fueled haze you inhabit. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-09-28 9:41 PM Brian skewered you. You're just making an idiot out of yourself now. It's embarrassing. Go off and drown your sorrows in the usual alcohol fueled haze you inhabit. :-| I'd be more embarrassed by the need to be Brian's bum licker 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 28, 2019 Share Posted September 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-09-28 9:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-09-28 9:41 PM Brian skewered you. You're just making an idiot out of yourself now. It's embarrassing. Go off and drown your sorrows in the usual alcohol fueled haze you inhabit. :-| I'd be more embarrassed by the need to be Brian's bum licker 8-) ......... As ex naval rating and pouffe stuffer, Dave, I'll bow to your obviously superior knowledge on such matters, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted September 29, 2019 Author Share Posted September 29, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 10:45 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 9:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-09-28 9:41 PM Brian skewered you. You're just making an idiot out of yourself now. It's embarrassing. Go off and drown your sorrows in the usual alcohol fueled haze you inhabit. :-| I'd be more embarrassed by the need to be Brian's bum licker 8-) ......... As ex naval rating and pouffe stuffer, Dave, I'll bow to your obviously superior knowledge on such matters, In answer to your previous question , it was Banks overextending themselves. Reading some of Margret Thatchers biography she thought uk would be better off leaving the Eu and becoming a free trade low tax economy. So it depends who you listen too as to which route is best. Q. What is a pouffe stuffer and why do they have them in the navy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-09-29 7:53 AM Q. What is a pouffe stuffer and why do they have them in the navy? My Pelmet & Pouffe stuffing empire was post my time afore the mast ;-) .............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-09-29 7:53 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-09-28 10:45 PM pelmetman - 2019-09-28 9:45 PM Bulletguy - 2019-09-28 9:41 PM Brian skewered you. You're just making an idiot out of yourself now. It's embarrassing. Go off and drown your sorrows in the usual alcohol fueled haze you inhabit. :-| I'd be more embarrassed by the need to be Brian's bum licker 8-) ......... As ex naval rating and pouffe stuffer, Dave, I'll bow to your obviously superior knowledge on such matters, 1 In answer to your previous question , it was Banks overextending themselves. 2 Reading some of Margret Thatchers biography she thought uk would be better off leaving the Eu and becoming a free trade low tax economy. So it depends who you listen too as to which route is best. 3 Q. What is a pouffe stuffer and why do they have them in the navy? 1 No Sir. It was fraudulent manipulation of various traded securities, for which a number of people have been sent to prison in the 'States. These were the collateralised debt oligations (CDOs) see here: http://tinyurl.com/jq7z59f that eventually brought down Lehmans. They were, as the Wiki piece explains, collections of mortgages that were rated as good risk investments. However, it had become fairly common practice in the States to issue mortgages with low initial repayment costs that rose over the years. They were widely issued by commission seeking mortgage sales people to NINJAS (no income, no jobs, no assets), who of course did not have the means to repay as soon as the repayment rates increased. These "dodgy" mortgages were then repackaged into CDOs that were passed off as being sound, while they were, in fact, destined to fail as the mortgagees became bankrupt. However, the CDOs continued to be traded in good faith on the basis of their (unchecked by S&P etc) ratings until some went west, and people started looking at what their CDOs actually contained. When that happened large numbers were found to be worth rather less than the paper on which were written. Since many banks held these CDOs as part of their listed assets, when their worthlessness was revealed, a number of the banks lacked the assets to back their liabilities and like Lehmans and in UK Northern Rock were in deep trouble. My point is that holding economists as a group for somehow responsible not knowing that when the relevant authorities had no idea what was going on is wildly unrealistic. Most economists are academics, not financial policemen, and could not possibly have known, or guessed that such widespread fraud was being perpetrated before the truth emerged. 2 No more than I would expect of Mrs Thatcher who, after all, was not an economist. Your earlier post cited Singapore as your ideal for that kind of economy. Note that Singapore is rated the third most unequal economy in the world. It is highly successful for the rich, but anyone else gets a raw deal, especially the ordinary working folk. It may be where Brexit is leading, but no-one who is not very wealthy indeed is likely to find their lives being improved under such a regime. As with the 2008 financial crash, it is wise to look behind the headlines and glimpse the reality before making one's mind up about what is really going on! 3 You'll have to ask Dave, as our resident expert on all thigs anal! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted September 29, 2019 Author Share Posted September 29, 2019 Well I knew how it all started,thought you wanted the consise answer. Singapore was just an example, personally I thought it was too sanatised there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They did not say that we should only leave if we got this deal or that deal, they did not say we will only leave if the financial markets react in this way or that, they did not say we will only leave if the remainers don't mind. They said we should leave. What the remainers have decided is that for whatever reason they do not wish us to leave and that they are prepared to over-ride the democratic will of the people, and aided and abetted by people who should not only know better but who, by the unwritten constitution by which this country is governed,, should not be part of this subject, and to me it seems that they are aided and abetted by people like you Brian, who, because they are relatively eloquent and confident think that their opinions are more important than anyone elses. If you choose to put your faith in the utterings of economists and the like, who for a multitude of reasons think they are peculiarly gifted with some insight that we mere mortals do not understand and believe that they know all the answers, that is your choice, but they have been spectacularly wrong in the past, and to risk our British Democracy on such a flimsy basis would seem to be foolhardy in the extreme. I do not know what the outcome will be, and you do not know what the outcome will be, and no economist knows what the outcome will be, neither does anyone else. We can all make a guess as to what we think, we may choose to put our faith in the manipulators of computer modelling, there may be those who might favour the Tarrot cards or the spin of a coin, but nobody knows and having spent a great deal of my time over the past few months trying to puzzle it out for myself, all the time aware that I personally have lost some 20% of my income during this undemocratic farce thanks to people like you Brian, I still believe that in the short term I may lose out, but I am certain in the knowledge that the UK will be better off outside the undemocratic, almost bankrupt EU in the longer term, and if right and justice prevail we will live in a better place in the longer term. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-09-29 8:08 PM Well I knew how it all started,thought you wanted the consise answer. Singapore was just an example, personally I thought it was too sanatised there. OK, understood. But, in that case, why seek to discredit the advice of economists on the ground that they didn't see the 2008 crash coming? Is this cognitive dissonance at work? It doesn't make sense to me. But, where does that leave us? Should one disregard the advice of economists on Brexit because they didn't detect what the regulators and credit ratings agencies didn't detect, or should one disregard the advice of economists on Brexit because they advise against it, because one doesn't like that advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-29 8:47 PM The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They did not say that we should only leave if we got this deal or that deal, they did not say we will only leave if the financial markets react in this way or that, they did not say we will only leave if the remainers don't mind. They said we should leave. What the remainers have decided is that for whatever reason they do not wish us to leave and that they are prepared to over-ride the democratic will of the people, and aided and abetted by people who should not only know better but who, by the unwritten constitution by which this country is governed,, should not be part of this subject, and to me it seems that they are aided and abetted by people like you Brian, who, because they are relatively eloquent and confident think that their opinions are more important than anyone elses. If you choose to put your faith in the utterings of economists and the like, who for a multitude of reasons think they are peculiarly gifted with some insight that we mere mortals do not understand and believe that they know all the answers, that is your choice, but they have been spectacularly wrong in the past, and to risk our British Democracy on such a flimsy basis would seem to be foolhardy in the extreme. I do not know what the outcome will be, and you do not know what the outcome will be, and no economist knows what the outcome will be, neither does anyone else. We can all make a guess as to what we think, we may choose to put our faith in the manipulators of computer modelling, there may be those who might favour the Tarrot cards or the spin of a coin, but nobody knows and having spent a great deal of my time over the past few months trying to puzzle it out for myself, all the time aware that I personally have lost some 20% of my income during this undemocratic farce thanks to people like you Brian, I still believe that in the short term I may lose out, but I am certain in the knowledge that the UK will be better off outside the undemocratic, almost bankrupt EU in the longer term, and if right and justice prevail we will live in a better place in the longer term. AGD Given your views on economists, who do you trust to lose look after your pension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 29, 2019 Share Posted September 29, 2019 Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-29 8:47 PM The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. Point of order! :-) I'm sorry, but no they did not. Over-claiming does not inspire confidence. First it was not the people of the UK (approx. 66 million) who were eligible to vote, it was the registered electorate (approx.47 million). Second, only 37.44% of the electorate voted leave, with 34.71.9% voted remain, and 27.85% didn't vote. Trying to elevate that result to "the people voted" stretches credulity beyond breaking! The is, in large part why we are in the mess we are in. There is no overall majority for any course. They did not say that we should only leave if we got this deal or that deal, they did not say we will only leave if the financial markets react in this way or that, they did not say we will only leave if the remainers don't mind. They said we should leave. They might have said various things had they a) been given proper factual information before the vote, and b) been asked which of the deals now on offer, or no deal, they preferred. They were not asked, so could hardly express their wishes on their ballot papers, could they? Whose fault was that? What the remainers have decided is that for whatever reason they do not wish us to leave and that they are prepared to over-ride the democratic will of the people.... I disagree that this is their motivation, but can only speak for myself in saying your assumption is wrong. …..and aided and abetted by people who should not only know better but who, by the unwritten constitution by which this country is governed, should not be part of this subject, Whoa there!! Who on earth are these unnamed people who are doing these things? If you really want to complain about undue influence on the part of campaigners, look properly into those who are promoting Brexit. Doo a little google search for the "bad boys of Brexit" and look who they are and what their interests are. Go on, I dare you! :-) …..and to me it seems that they are aided and abetted by people like you Brian, who, because they are relatively eloquent and confident think that their opinions are more important than anyone elses. I will be blunt. You are talking utter rubbish. What I think only I know, and with all due respect, you do not. I have no illusions about the importance of my opinions vis a vis anyone else's. I express my opinions on this issue as clearly as I am able, because I think it is a vitally important matter, and that people's opinions, including mine, should be expressed. Don't try to put words in my mouth. If you choose to put your faith in the utterings of economists and the like, who for a multitude of reasons think they are peculiarly gifted with some insight that we mere mortals do not understand and believe that they know all the answers, that is your choice, You are right, it is my choice. As to what they may think, you clearly know more about the workings of economists minds than I do. All I can say is that I have spent most of my life working with experts in various fields, and that those I have met have been aware of the limits of their knowledge, but have proved significantly more often right than wrong. Were that not the case, they would not be consulted as experts. Is that not obvious? I therefore choose to rely on the advice of the expert in preference to the advice of the non-expert. Why do I do that? Tricky, isn't it? …...but they have been spectacularly wrong in the past, and to risk our British Deocracy on such a flimsy basis would seem to be foolhardy in the extreme. I'm sorry, but it is naïve to expect someone who is regarded as an expert in a particular field to be 100% all the time. But, when confronted by most of an entire profession of experts telling you something is unwise, it is extremely foolish to ignore what they say. However, as above, that is your choice. I do not know what the outcome will be, and you do not know what the outcome will be, and no economist knows what the outcome will be, neither does anyone else. Given present circumstances, this is a bit of a statement of the bleedin' obvious!! Chaos rules, and whose fault is that? But we have the clearest possible indications that the outcomes should we leave will be worse than those should we remain. You reject that advice in preference to (I assume) Tarot cards. As above, your choice. We can all make a guess as to what we think, we may choose to put our faith in the maniplators of computer modelling, there may be those who might favour the Tarrot cards or the spin of a coin, but nobody knows and having spent a great deal of my time over the past few months trying to puzzle it out for myself, all the time aware that I personally have lost some 20% of my income during this undemocratic farce thanks to people like you Brian, I still believe that in the short term I may lose out, but I am certain in the knowledge that the UK will be better off outside the undemocratic, almost bankrupt EU in the longer term, and if right and justice prevail we will live in a better place in the longer term. AGD An outrageous allegation. You have lost 20% of your income thanks to people like me? How in all creation do you arrive at that conclusion? Are you quite sure whatever loss you have suffered is not at your own hand? No-one need guess at anything, certainly not at what they think - at least I don't have to guess what I think. As to whether you may lose out, it seems you already have, apparently because of me. Your final sentiment is noble indeed, but it relies on belief. Some people still believe the earth is flat. They are demonstrably wrong. I hope for all our sakes your beliefs are better founded than theirs, but then I'm afraid I profoundly distrust other people's beliefs, and avoid relying on beliefs myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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