Vote Liberal

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2019-10-03 8:44 PM

 

Your second point is best answered by the fruit and veg farmers who can't get British pickers. Few bother applying and those that do rarely last the course. It's not because of money either, more the fact it's hard physical work.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-agriculture-farms-fruit-picking-migrant-workers-labour-shortage-a8469806.html

 

British farmers have used itinerant workers from abroad for years before we joined the EU ;-) .........

 

The difference was we weren't forced to give them access to our benefit system, schools, NHS etc *-) ........

 

 

[747]

pelmetman - 2019-10-04 8:34 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-10-03 8:44 PM

 

Your second point is best answered by the fruit and veg farmers who can't get British pickers. Few bother applying and those that do rarely last the course. It's not because of money either, more the fact it's hard physical work.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-agriculture-farms-fruit-picking-migrant-workers-labour-shortage-a8469806.html

 

British farmers have used itinerant workers from abroad for years before we joined the EU ;-) .........

 

The difference was we weren't forced to give them access to our benefit system, schools, NHS etc *-) ........

 

 

Quite correct young man ... and Blutoguy knows that.

 

Just let him carry on with his daily "Mr Angry" slot and ignore him. You know what they say about 'empty vessels'. :D

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2019-10-04 8:34 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2019-10-03 8:44 PM

 

Your second point is best answered by the fruit and veg farmers who can't get British pickers. Few bother applying and those that do rarely last the course. It's not because of money either, more the fact it's hard physical work.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-agriculture-farms-fruit-picking-migrant-workers-labour-shortage-a8469806.html

 

British farmers have used itinerant workers from abroad for years before we joined the EU ;-) .........

 

The difference was we weren't forced to give them access to our benefit system, schools, NHS etc *-) ........

Yes UK was still using slaves in the 50's and 60's and i remember seeing the filthy shacks and hovels hop pickers were housed in. Is that what you want to go back to?

 

The welfare state and migrants is a tired old chestnut wheeled out by the far right perpetuating the myth that migrant workers simply walk in and claim a pile of benefits where nothing could be further from the truth. But they've been drip fed this bullcrap by idiots like Fartage which appeals to their Little Englander xenophobia.

 

Can EU migrants easily claim benefits when they arrive in another EU country?

 

No - there are conditions, depending on an individual's circumstances.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25134521

[Archiesgrandad]

Bulletguy, I wonder if you might care to help me understand these things a little better. Take for instance the use of BMW SUVs by the Met Police. We all know that to produce a car suited to high speed motoring it is desirable that it should be low, (low centre of gravity), it should be of a slippery shape,( low cd), it should be of low cross sectional frontal area, (less air to push aside), and if it is to be purchased by public funds it should be as inexpensive as possible. If it is difficult to see why the Met would require the 4wd facility that is the essential feature of these particular cars, taking account of the terrain over which the Met have have to operate, so why would the Met buy these cars.? The very nature of the SUV makes it not suited to high speed pursuit on metalled roads, there are other makes of SUV which would give the same performance envelope at much lower cost, even ones that could be bought from Germany, or heaven forbid, the UK, so what is so special about the BMW? I'm not an expert on anything , especially The cars used by the German Police, but I have family in Germany so I do go there from time to time, but I do not recall ever seeing a BMW police car on the autobahns, in fact the impression I get is that the German police use mostly VWs.

I also note that the French police use pretty much only Renault, Peugeot and Citroen nad they seem to get by.

Another though about police cars, the smallest police force in terms of the area to be covered is The City of London Police, ( nothing to do with the Met), and they cover one square mile of some of the most densely trafficked streets in the UK. There are a few inclines, but no steep passes or vast open spaces, no unmade roads, the weather is very benign and they rarely see snow or ice. It is difficult to imagine a high speed chase that might require a high performance car, because at 60 mph they would run out of area after a few seconds and the Met would take over, but they have BMWs.

There must be something I've missed.

With regard to the migrant worker problem, what is it that you object to in my suggesting that we should try to encourage people on the dole to take up some of the work currently done by EU immigrants. I didn't suggest we should frogmarch them down to the fields at gun point, or deny them food and shelter, I didn't suggest we should withdraw their entitlement to money through social security, I suggested that we try to encourage them, I think it would be to the advantage of us all in the long run.

I really don't understand why people seem so keen on giving up our status as an independent nation, tying us to the near bankrupt, totally undemocratic union. This stupidity has surely gone on for long enough. Surely we have all had more than enough opportunity to see through all the bullsh*t and waffle of the protagonists on both sides of the argument, and think for a moment about it in our own way. Europe is heavily dependent on the UK in many ways, but to what extent are we really dependent on them. How do all the countries outside the EU get all they need, and why aren't they clamouring to join the EU or some similar institution in their own part of the world, and even why don't they all live miserable lives in near poverty as a consequence, and if they don't, why should we?

Be prepared to challenge your own understandings, be a bit sceptical about the utterings of experts, especially those who make a living from convincing us that their guesses are always right, is the sky really going to fall in.

All this would be amusing if it wasn't so serious and democratically wrong.

AGD

[Barryd999]

I Dont think we have a migrant worker problem. Those that come here to work contribute more than none EU migrants and even more so than your average Brit apparently. As for getting our unemployed to do the jobs migrants do well many employers have tried that and they were flaming hopeless. You would probably have to pay in excess of £20-30 per hour for some of the stuff they do in order to attract a decent enough calibre of Brit. Fine but lets see how well that goes down when your cabbages are a tenner each (Actually that might be how much a cabbage costs I dunno).

 

I could cite several examples. A quarry where I work sometimes employs Polish workers do do certain tasks. They have been unable to find locals to do the work but unfortunately some of them have cleared off due to Brexit. Ive never seen lads work so hard.

 

Then what about places like the Lake District? Thousands of EU workers there, many live in. Also very hard working. How are you going to get great swathes of unemployed from Manchester or where ever to go and do that work?

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage. You will miss them when they are gone, mark my words on that one.

[malc d]

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 1:41 PM

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage.

 

.

 

Should we expect people ( U.K. or E.U. ) doing tough jobs to be paid minimum wage ?

 

:-|

[Barryd999]

malc d - 2019-10-05 3:04 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 1:41 PM

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage.

 

.

 

Should we expect people ( U.K. or E.U. ) doing tough jobs to be paid minimum wage ?

 

:-|

 

Good question. I guess it depends what it is. I think the guys that work in the quarry actually get paid quite well but they still cant get UK staff. There is an argument that in some low paid jobs EU migrants have suppressed wages although generally there isnt that much evidence to prove that. What would happen if all the cabbage pullers and minimum wage foreigners went home though? Costs I guess would rocket so a lot of these businesses would fold as it would probably work out cheaper to import that produce than to pay Brits that were prepared to do it for more money. Also they keep telling us we have very low employment so where would the workers come from within the UK anyway?

 

Whoever is left on the long term unemployed within the UK wont be doing it thats for sure.

[Bulletguy]

Archiesgrandad - 2019-10-05 12:41 PM

 

Bulletguy, I wonder if you might care to help me understand these things a little better. Take for instance the use of BMW SUVs by the Met Police. We all know that to produce a car suited to high speed motoring it is desirable that it should be low, (low centre of gravity), it should be of a slippery shape,( low cd), it should be of low cross sectional frontal area, (less air to push aside), and if it is to be purchased by public funds it should be as inexpensive as possible.

 

 

If it is difficult to see why the Met would require the 4wd facility that is the essential feature of these particular cars, taking account of the terrain over which the Met have have to operate, so why would the Met buy these cars.?

 

 

The very nature of the SUV makes it not suited to high speed pursuit on metalled roads, there are other makes of SUV which would give the same performance envelope at much lower cost, even ones that could be bought from Germany, or heaven forbid, the UK, so what is so special about the BMW? I'm not an expert on anything , especially The cars used by the German Police, but I have family in Germany so I do go there from time to time, but I do not recall ever seeing a BMW police car on the autobahns, in fact the impression I get is that the German police use mostly VWs. I also note that the French police use pretty much only Renault, Peugeot and Citroen nad they seem to get by.

All down to job suitability….having the right tools for the job and in that respect BMW often tops the list for build, quality engineering, wide range of powerful engine specs giving up to 155mph. Even their SUV's are pretty powerful though no match for fifth or sixth generation E series….but then the SUV's have a big load capacity and able to offroad.

 

No idea where you go in Germany but there's plenty of BMW police cars around on both Autobahns and town patrols. In addition, VW, Mercedes, Audi and Opel explained in more detail from their wiki page; German police typically use cars from German manufacturers. Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi, Opel and BMW are commonly used as patrol cars (Streifenwagen). States used to prefer vehicles built in or close to the respective state. However, with most states now leasing instead of buying their vehicles and in light of European Union rules on contract bidding, states have less latitude in choosing which manufacturer will provide their patrol cars than they did.

 

In the Saarland which is historically closely tied to neighbouring France, vehicles from French companies as well as European Fords are used as police cars. The Bavarian State Police uses mainly BMW and Audi vehicles, as both companies are based in Bavaria (BMW in Munich and Audi in Ingolstadt). In the eastern states of Germany, mostly Volkswagens are in use (Volkswagen is based in Wolfsburg, close to the eastern states). The Hessian police prefer Opel cars (General Motors-brand Opel is based in Rüsselsheim near Frankfurt am Main in Hesse). Baden-Württemberg mostly uses Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen cars for their police force.

 

 

Another though about police cars, the smallest police force in terms of the area to be covered is The City of London Police, ( nothing to do with the Met), and they cover one square mile of some of the most densely trafficked streets in the UK. There are a few inclines, but no steep passes or vast open spaces, no unmade roads, the weather is very benign and they rarely see snow or ice.

 

It is difficult to imagine a high speed chase that might require a high performance car, because at 60 mph they would run out of area after a few seconds and the Met would take over, but they have BMWs.

 

There must be something I've missed.

Among the vehicle fleet listed is a horsebox. My local force covers 904 sq miles more......but doesn't have a horsebox. Yes driving in London is a joke as the city gets rammed and you're better off using public transport or walking. One of my nephews lives in central London and has never owned a car but in the case of emergency vehicles on blue lights, other road users soon clear out the way.

 

With regard to the migrant worker problem, what is it that you object to in my suggesting that we should try to encourage people on the dole to take up some of the work currently done by EU immigrants. I didn't suggest we should frogmarch them down to the fields at gun point, or deny them food and shelter, I didn't suggest we should withdraw their entitlement to money through social security, I suggested that we try to encourage them, I think it would be to the advantage of us all in the long run.

Far as i recollect i didn't raise an objection but simply pointed out the facts as experienced by the fruit farm owners themselves and linked to it. It's hard manual labour which EU workers (particularly Eastern) are used to. The one disadvantage is it's seasonal work and most British seeking work would be after more permanent work. However our resident Brexiters will tell you employment is at a record high so apparently everything is hunky dory and we don't need these people. The fruit farm owners tell a very different story. But what do they know eh? They just own the businesses.

 

 

I really don't understand why people seem so keen on giving up our status as an independent nation, tying us to the near bankrupt, totally undemocratic union. This stupidity has surely gone on for long enough. Surely we have all had more than enough opportunity to see through all the bullsh*t and waffle of the protagonists on both sides of the argument, and think for a moment about it in our own way. Europe is heavily dependent on the UK in many ways, but to what extent are we really dependent on them. How do all the countries outside the EU get all they need, and why aren't they clamouring to join the EU or some similar institution in their own part of the world, and even why don't they all live miserable lives in near poverty as a consequence, and if they don't, why should we?

 

Be prepared to challenge your own understandings, be a bit sceptical about the utterings of experts, especially those who make a living from convincing us that their guesses are always right, is the sky really going to fall in.

All this would be amusing if it wasn't so serious and democratically wrong.

AGD

The irony of this is you sitting at your pc at home in France writing the above! It's the same as the pensioner Brits enjoying the good life in Spain who voted to end their own FoM because they thought it didn't apply to them......only to "proper Europeans". Yep seriously, that was the term used from a Brexit voting pensioner in Spain! Then folk wonder where//how the "Little Englander" term came about!

 

The history behind the EU or EEC as it then was is there for good reasons, not bad, and my personal belief will always be that we should remain together. Look at the two countries who most desire the breakup of the EU and ask yourself why they are so keen to see that happen. As for independence UK has always cherry picked it's way throughout it's EU membership.....a little bit of that, but we don't want this, yes we'll have all of that etc etc. Quite disgraceful really. As for "undemocratic" i've no idea how you arrive at that as it's certainly more democratic than our own HoL which has almost 800 unelected peers, the worlds second largest chamber after communist China.

 

Up to now we seem to be doing a pretty good job of breaking up our own nation and as for "bankrupt" some clown on here suggested our economy is "ticking over quite nicely", so i'll leave you with this link showing the UK national debt. You could use it as a screensaver.

 

http://www.nationaldebtclock.co.uk/

[malc d]

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 3:41 PM

 

malc d - 2019-10-05 3:04 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 1:41 PM

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage.

 

.

 

Should we expect people ( U.K. or E.U. ) doing tough jobs to be paid minimum wage ?

 

:-|

 

Good question. I guess it depends what it is. I think the guys that work in the quarry actually get paid quite well but they still cant get UK staff.

 

There is an argument that in some low paid jobs EU migrants have suppressed wages ………………………………..

 

.

 

 

That seems very likely to me.

 

Problem is that a low age in U.K. terms is quite a high wage in Eastern European terms - so when the immigrant workers send their money ' home ' it is worth a lot more over there.

 

In the very long term I'm sure the theory is that wages all over the EU will slowly equalise - but if that means a levelling off downwards it's never going to be acceptable to those affected adversely.

Especially as salaries ( and bonuses ) of those ' running things ' continue to go through the roof.

 

:-|

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2019-10-05 3:04 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 1:41 PM

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage.

 

.

 

Should we expect people ( U.K. or E.U. ) doing tough jobs to be paid minimum wage ?

 

:-|

Malc most are paid above minimum as that link i posted shows. It's the nature of the job which doesn't appeal to them.

 

Another example, a couple of years ago i was in Peterhead watching a trawler unload. I got chatting to the owner who told me all his crew with the exception of his skipper were East Europeans. Very few local lads made the grade. It's hard physical labour and very dangerous too. Pay is also catch dependent. One of his crew was training for his Masters certificate so once passed, would qualify him to skipper any trawler.

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2019-10-05 4:14 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 3:41 PM

 

malc d - 2019-10-05 3:04 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 1:41 PM

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage.

 

.

 

Should we expect people ( U.K. or E.U. ) doing tough jobs to be paid minimum wage ?

 

:-|

 

Good question. I guess it depends what it is. I think the guys that work in the quarry actually get paid quite well but they still cant get UK staff.

 

There is an argument that in some low paid jobs EU migrants have suppressed wages ………………………………..

 

.

 

 

That seems very likely to me.

 

Problem is that a low age in U.K. terms is quite a high wage in Eastern European terms - so when the immigrant workers send their money ' home ' it is worth a lot more over there.

 

In the very long term I'm sure the theory is that wages all over the EU will slowly equalise - but if that means a levelling off downwards it's never going to be acceptable to those affected adversely.

Especially as salaries ( and bonuses ) of those ' running things ' continue to go through the roof.

 

:-|

Malc/Barry.....imo zero hour contracts and agency work has suppressed income levels more than anything. Take a look at the job types it attracts.

[747]

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 1:41 PM

 

I Dont think we have a migrant worker problem. Those that come here to work contribute more than none EU migrants and even more so than your average Brit apparently. As for getting our unemployed to do the jobs migrants do well many employers have tried that and they were flaming hopeless. You would probably have to pay in excess of £20-30 per hour for some of the stuff they do in order to attract a decent enough calibre of Brit. Fine but lets see how well that goes down when your cabbages are a tenner each (Actually that might be how much a cabbage costs I dunno).

 

I could cite several examples. A quarry where I work sometimes employs Polish workers do do certain tasks. They have been unable to find locals to do the work but unfortunately some of them have cleared off due to Brexit. Ive never seen lads work so hard.

 

Then what about places like the Lake District? Thousands of EU workers there, many live in. Also very hard working. How are you going to get great swathes of unemployed from Manchester or where ever to go and do that work?

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage. You will miss them when they are gone, mark my words on that one.

 

You mention the Lake District. If you take that area and Cumbria in general, young Brits have to move away for decent jobs and they cannot afford to rent or buy property due to the high property prices in a Tourist area. It is replicated in other parts of the UK. Cheap live in Staff is the only solution to Business in the Tourist Trade. It may benefit Eastern Europeans but it benefits business more.

[Barryd999]

747 - 2019-10-05 5:29 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-05 1:41 PM

 

I Dont think we have a migrant worker problem. Those that come here to work contribute more than none EU migrants and even more so than your average Brit apparently. As for getting our unemployed to do the jobs migrants do well many employers have tried that and they were flaming hopeless. You would probably have to pay in excess of £20-30 per hour for some of the stuff they do in order to attract a decent enough calibre of Brit. Fine but lets see how well that goes down when your cabbages are a tenner each (Actually that might be how much a cabbage costs I dunno).

 

I could cite several examples. A quarry where I work sometimes employs Polish workers do do certain tasks. They have been unable to find locals to do the work but unfortunately some of them have cleared off due to Brexit. Ive never seen lads work so hard.

 

Then what about places like the Lake District? Thousands of EU workers there, many live in. Also very hard working. How are you going to get great swathes of unemployed from Manchester or where ever to go and do that work?

 

I think people have to face facts that we have been lucky to find really good calibre European workers that are prepared to work in tough jobs for minimum wage. You will miss them when they are gone, mark my words on that one.

 

You mention the Lake District. If you take that area and Cumbria in general, young Brits have to move away for decent jobs and they cannot afford to rent or buy property due to the high property prices in a Tourist area. It is replicated in other parts of the UK. Cheap live in Staff is the only solution to Business in the Tourist Trade. It may benefit Eastern Europeans but it benefits business more.

 

Its a funny old place though as I think Cumbria overall has a crap economy. The periphery is pretty sh1t and there are plenty of places around the coast that are cheap but they are pretty depressed areas. Its kind of isolated I guess unless your lucky enough to get a job at the nuclear power station or building submarines. in the Lake district itself of course its a different story. Its like comparing Beverly hills to Middlesbrough. your right though. Cheap labour from Europe does benefit the business owners. I knew a lot of them when I had boats there. Everyone, especially around Windermere is totally minted.

[jumpstart]

It’s the same in central Paris....and your point is?

[Barryd999]

jumpstart - 2019-10-05 8:12 PM

 

It’s the same in central Paris....and your point is?

 

Not really the same as Paris has a good underground and public transport network. Cumbria does not. While there might be people in outlying towns such as Workington or Barrow on the coast to do the jobs in the central tourist areas getting to them will not always be easy. It could well be the same for a lot of outlying rural fruit and veg farms out in the middle of nowhere. If you can find an unemployed Brit capable of doing the same work (and good luck with that) are they to be expected to commute say 60 miles with no public transport each day?

 

Already we are hearing reports of fruit rotting in the ground because of lack of workers. Will hotels start closing next?

 

Ill tell you what will happen. We will have to recruit from Asia and Africa which is already starting to happen. that wont please some I bet. The UK is quickly becoming a less attractive place to work for a lot of Europeans. Eastern European economies are rising as well. A while back Bulgaria I think it was was advertising for Brit workers! Oh the irony.

[jumpstart]

Not surprised some Eastern European economies are doing better ,that’s where our Eu contributions are going.

[Barryd999]

jumpstart - 2019-10-06 6:41 PM

 

Not surprised some Eastern European economies are doing better ,that’s where our Eu contributions are going.

 

Wasnt that part of the entire point of the project? To bring countries up to similar economic levels and thus creating more trade and and an even more powerful bloc? If you want a seed to grow and flower you have to water it. If you want to flower on your own you better make sure you have everything you need in house to feed and water yourself. We dont.

[jumpstart]

Barryd999 - 2019-10-06 7:35 PM

 

jumpstart - 2019-10-06 6:41 PM

 

Not surprised some Eastern European economies are doing better ,that’s where our Eu contributions are going.

 

Wasnt that part of the entire point of the project? To bring countries up to similar economic levels and thus creating more trade and and an even more powerful bloc? If you want a seed to grow and flower you have to water it. If you want to flower on your own you better make sure you have everything you need in house to feed and water yourself. We dont.

 

Unfortunately the flower turned out to be a weed.

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2019-10-06 7:35 PM

 

jumpstart - 2019-10-06 6:41 PM

 

Not surprised some Eastern European economies are doing better ,that’s where our Eu contributions are going.

 

Wasnt that part of the entire point of the project? To bring countries up to similar economic levels and thus creating more trade and and an even more powerful bloc? If you want a seed to grow and flower you have to water it. If you want to flower on your own you better make sure you have everything you need in house to feed and water yourself. We dont.

 

Leveling down maybe your idea of a successful union Barry *-) ..........

 

It deffo ain't mine >:-) ........

 

 

[Barryd999]

I wouldnt call the worlds biggest trading bloc a weed or levelling down. Ive still yet to see a Brexiteer come up with a definitive list of what we can set up to better what we already have outside of the EU.

 

I bet your gonna say good ole Australia eh?

 

[jumpstart]

You still misunderstand. Trading block fine...but not the rest. Macron yesterday says he will give the uk until Friday....Germany and France continually think it’s a one man show ...that’s what I object to.

[Barryd999]

jumpstart - 2019-10-07 6:55 AM

 

You still misunderstand. Trading block fine...but not the rest. Macron yesterday says he will give the uk until Friday....Germany and France continually think it’s a one man show ...that’s what I object to.

 

Macron is just doing a Boris though. He is trying to appeal to the electorate where his rating is really crap by appearing all powerful and leader like. He did the same posturing last time but its not up to him. None of them can make decisions on stuff like this without the say so of the other countries including Germany.

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2019-10-07 8:29 AM

 

jumpstart - 2019-10-07 6:55 AM

 

You still misunderstand. Trading block fine...but not the rest. Macron yesterday says he will give the uk until Friday....Germany and France continually think it’s a one man show ...that’s what I object to.

 

Macron is just doing a Boris though. He is trying to appeal to the electorate where his rating is really crap by appearing all powerful and leader like. He did the same posturing last time but its not up to him. None of them can make decisions on stuff like this without the say so of the other countries including Germany.

 

Macron is just a Frog windbag who's trying to deflect from his own country's problems *-) ...........

 

Boris "is" attempting to carry out the will of the people ;-) .........

 

But he's being stymied by the Loser Brigade who will get their comeuppance at the next GE >:-) .......

 

 

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2019-10-07 9:27 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-07 8:29 AM

 

jumpstart - 2019-10-07 6:55 AM

 

You still misunderstand. Trading block fine...but not the rest. Macron yesterday says he will give the uk until Friday....Germany and France continually think it’s a one man show ...that’s what I object to.

 

Macron is just doing a Boris though. He is trying to appeal to the electorate where his rating is really crap by appearing all powerful and leader like. He did the same posturing last time but its not up to him. None of them can make decisions on stuff like this without the say so of the other countries including Germany.

 

 

Macron is just a Frog windbag who's trying to deflect from his own country's problems *-) ...........

 

Boris "is" attempting to carry out the will of the people ;-) .........

 

But he's being stymied by the Loser Brigade who will get their comeuppance at the next GE >:-) .......

 

 

Well that cant be true as the will of the "majority" of the people in the UK is to remain in the EU.

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2019-10-07 9:27 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-07 8:29 AM

 

jumpstart - 2019-10-07 6:55 AM

 

You still misunderstand. Trading block fine...but not the rest. Macron yesterday says he will give the uk until Friday....Germany and France continually think it’s a one man show ...that’s what I object to.

 

Macron is just doing a Boris though. He is trying to appeal to the electorate where his rating is really crap by appearing all powerful and leader like. He did the same posturing last time but its not up to him. None of them can make decisions on stuff like this without the say so of the other countries including Germany.

 

Boris "is" attempting to carry out the will of the people ;-) .........

Rubbish.....37% of the electorate does not represent "the people" at all and never did.