Vote Liberal

[Guest pelmetman]

Fast Pat - 2019-09-29 9:01 PM

 

Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-29 8:47 PM

 

The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They did not say that we should only leave if we got this deal or that deal, they did not say we will only leave if the financial markets react in this way or that, they did not say we will only leave if the remainers don't mind. They said we should leave.

What the remainers have decided is that for whatever reason they do not wish us to leave and that they are prepared to over-ride the democratic will of the people, and aided and abetted by people who should not only know better but who, by the unwritten constitution by which this country is governed,, should not be part of this subject, and to me it seems that they are aided and abetted by people like you Brian, who, because they are relatively eloquent and confident think that their opinions are more important than anyone elses.

If you choose to put your faith in the utterings of economists and the like, who for a multitude of reasons think they are peculiarly gifted with some insight that we mere mortals do not understand and believe that they know all the answers, that is your choice, but they have been spectacularly wrong in the past, and to risk our British Democracy on such a flimsy basis would seem to be foolhardy in the extreme. I do not know what the outcome will be, and you do not know what the outcome will be, and no economist knows what the outcome will be, neither does anyone else. We can all make a guess as to what we think, we may choose to put our faith in the manipulators of computer modelling, there may be those who might favour the Tarrot cards or the spin of a coin, but nobody knows and having spent a great deal of my time over the past few months trying to puzzle it out for myself, all the time aware that I personally have lost some 20% of my income during this undemocratic farce thanks to people like you Brian, I still believe that in the short term I may lose out, but I am certain in the knowledge that the UK will be better off outside the undemocratic, almost bankrupt EU in the longer term, and if right and justice prevail we will live in a better place in the longer term.

AGD

 

Given your views on economists, who do you trust to lose look after your pension?

 

Economists become irrelevant if you end up with Venezuelan style economy 8-) .........

 

 

[Archiesgrandad]

I try to choose the least untrustworthy.

AGD

[Archiesgrandad]

Brian, by the interpretation of democracy on which the UK is governed the majority of voters did vote to leave the EU, and always keep in mind Ike's comment all those years ago, " there are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics." , we should all be cautious about how we express ourselves.

 

Your clinical disection of my piece may do more to confirm my view than you intended.

 

AGD

 

[Barryd999]

Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-29 8:47 PM

 

The people of the UK voted to leave the EU. They did not say that we should only leave if we got this deal or that deal, they did not say we will only leave if the financial markets react in this way or that, they did not say we will only leave if the remainers don't mind. They said we should leave.

What the remainers have decided is that for whatever reason they do not wish us to leave and that they are prepared to over-ride the democratic will of the people, and aided and abetted by people who should not only know better but who, by the unwritten constitution by which this country is governed,, should not be part of this subject, and to me it seems that they are aided and abetted by people like you Brian, who, because they are relatively eloquent and confident think that their opinions are more important than anyone elses.

If you choose to put your faith in the utterings of economists and the like, who for a multitude of reasons think they are peculiarly gifted with some insight that we mere mortals do not understand and believe that they know all the answers, that is your choice, but they have been spectacularly wrong in the past, and to risk our British Democracy on such a flimsy basis would seem to be foolhardy in the extreme. I do not know what the outcome will be, and you do not know what the outcome will be, and no economist knows what the outcome will be, neither does anyone else. We can all make a guess as to what we think, we may choose to put our faith in the manipulators of computer modelling, there may be those who might favour the Tarrot cards or the spin of a coin, but nobody knows and having spent a great deal of my time over the past few months trying to puzzle it out for myself, all the time aware that I personally have lost some 20% of my income during this undemocratic farce thanks to people like you Brian, I still believe that in the short term I may lose out, but I am certain in the knowledge that the UK will be better off outside the undemocratic, almost bankrupt EU in the longer term, and if right and justice prevail we will live in a better place in the longer term.

AGD

 

I posted some percentage figures the other week regarding leavers thoughts on Brexit back in 2016 at the time of the referendum. By far the greatest percentage of them assumed we would leave with a good deal, only 17% assumed we would leave with no deal. A similar percentage thought we would leave with both very close ties to Europe with single market and customs union membership.

 

Remainers were less sure that we would forge a good deal and so far it seems we were correct, we have not.

 

You and I have no idea what each leaver wanted from Brexit but its pretty clear that not that many wanted a crash out no deal Brexit and there is still nowhere near a majority for that now. As the Brexiteers have failed to deliver what they promised which was a great deal then IMO there should be a confirmatory referendum on whatever naff deal Johnson comes up with (he wont) or more likely no deal vs remain. That would be the democratic answer to the situation we are in now which lets face it parliament are not going to solve on their own.

[jumpstart]

Just shows you how wrong that was then. Always make me laugh when you hear about surveys...like people telling the truth.

[Brian Kirby]

Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-30 10:15 AM Brian, by the interpretation of democracy on which the UK is governed the majority of voters did vote to leave the EU, and always keep in mind Ike's comment all those years ago, " there are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics." , we should all be cautious about how we express ourselves.

Yes, but that narrow margin is a far cry from being, as you claimed, what "the people" voted for. Had the result been that a majority of the electorate had voted to leave, I would not dispute your claim. Why then, do you feel the need to exaggerate the referendum outcome when you do not know, any more than I do, how those 13 million non-voters might have voted?

 

Your clinical disection of my piece may do more to confirm my view than you intended.

AGD

Sad, but your choice.

[malc d]

Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 10:29 AM

 

 

 

I posted some percentage figures the other week regarding leavers thoughts on Brexit back in 2016 ………………………………………….

 

.

 

One of the biggest errors made consistently by both sides of the Brexit ' dispute ' is to keep posting ( or if on TV - spouting ) percentage figures, or statistics, which they personally believe in - in the forlorn hope that the other side will eventually believe them.

 

:-(

[747]

I'm with AGD on Brexit and so are many others.

 

The more that Remainers juggle percentages and numbers to 'verify' their outlook, the more Brexiteers get annoyed. Yet Remainers take no responsibility for the bad feelings which have finally reached the floor of the Westminster Chamber. None of it has been caused by them ... apparently.

 

Everywhere Boris goes there is an organised gang of professional agitators (like in Luxembourg). So, who is paying for all this. We hear plenty about Billionnaires funding the Brexit camp but nothing about the likes of Soros et al.

 

I have said before that I come from a background where whingers and whiners are looked down upon (even despised at times). The worst kind of whiner is the one who whines non-stop yet never gets off his Sofa to do anything about it (I realise Barry has actually attended demonstrations and so might get off with just having electrodes attached to his genitals). As for the rest of you Remainers, I now fervently hope for a swift Brexit just to spite you. ;-)

[Bulletguy]

 

AGD

 

I'm curious as to whether you intend to move back here or remain living in France?

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2019-09-30 1:31 PM

 

 

AGD

 

I'm curious as to whether you intend to move back here or remain living in France?

 

If Corbyn gets in we'll all be heading for the EXIT 8-) ..........

 

 

[jumpstart]

Going off target here....if Liberals get in there won’t be Brexit.

[Archiesgrandad]

Difficult one this. It is almost 30 years since I had the first of my four heart attacks, so I am constantly amazed to find that I have survived the night and look likely to live another day. We came to France because my dear wife has family here and on the assumption that my being ten years older than her, and having regard for my potential medical frailty, we expected that I would pre-decease her, and it seemed reasonable to try to ensure that she has family around her when she is on her own. However, the best laid schemes of mice and men,........ as they say, and poor old CG has been diagnosed with a degenerative immune condition, and it is no longer certain that it will be CG who is left on her own. Regardless of the end result of this Brexit farce we are now starting to think that we might prefer to spend our last days back in the UK where we can at least understand the language. We will certainly lose a lot of money when we try to sell our lovely little house, so it is difficult to start to plan anything yet, but we try to be realistic.

There is one point though, I think of France as a country that is for the most part quite beautiful, but it is almost full of Frenchmen and they do detract from what could otherwise be a very pleasant place to live.

Another point, I seem to be as fit as a tick and and at this time I feel that I could carry one for years yet so please do not be concerned on my account.

AGD

[Barryd999]

747 - 2019-09-30 1:10 PM

 

I'm with AGD on Brexit and so are many others.

 

The more that Remainers juggle percentages and numbers to 'verify' their outlook, the more Brexiteers get annoyed. Yet Remainers take no responsibility for the bad feelings which have finally reached the floor of the Westminster Chamber. None of it has been caused by them ... apparently.

 

Everywhere Boris goes there is an organised gang of professional agitators (like in Luxembourg). So, who is paying for all this. We hear plenty about Billionnaires funding the Brexit camp but nothing about the likes of Soros et al.

 

I have said before that I come from a background where whingers and whiners are looked down upon (even despised at times). The worst kind of whiner is the one who whines non-stop yet never gets off his Sofa to do anything about it (I realise Barry has actually attended demonstrations and so might get off with just having electrodes attached to his genitals). As for the rest of you Remainers, I now fervently hope for a swift Brexit just to spite you. ;-)

 

Perhaps its important though to remind people of what the feelings and outlook was three and a half years ago though. Brexit was indeed sold with a vision of the UK being so clever and important we would be able to have our cake and eat it. Brexiteers in the main believed that and thats what the percentages show. Hardly any of them thought we would be leaving on no deal and virtually all of them said they wanted to leave with a good deal, unless they were also lying of course.

 

I spent over three and a half years campaigning to try and make people see that we wouldnt get that fantastic deal and therefore it might be a good idea to have a vote on it at the end. I Dont mean on here either. We seem to have failed as there is little talk on a final vote now. I just think people need to think back to what they envisaged the outcome to be back in 2016 and ask yourself is what we are looking at now with a no deal and all the predictions of what that means even remotely like what you envisaged in 2016.

[malc d]

747 - 2019-09-30 1:10 PM

 

 

 

As for the rest of you Remainers, I now fervently hope for a swift Brexit ……………. ;-)

 

 

I can't imagine what people mean by a " swift exit " -

 

…..... deal or no deal , I can see negotiations going on for years.

 

:-|

[Archiesgrandad]

Brian you appear to be an intelligent man, you have lived through many national elections and probably 2 referendums, so you know exactly how the British system works. Although there have always been those who think that the current system is not fair, and you may be one of those few, that view has failed to attract the attention of the majority of people in the UK, and the major political parties have so far not expressed any interest in changing to a different system, so as a UK citizen you are expected to accept that in any national election or referendum held in the UK the candidate or choice receiving the highest number of votes will be declared the winner. The choice to leave the EU received the largest number of votes in the referendum so it is decreed that the people of the UK have voted to leave the EU.

If, however, you really feel that the decision should be overturned then how truly committed are you to that reaction, it must be reasonable to assume that you would want the decision on previous referendum overturned, which would of course, mean that the referendum by which we voted to join the EU must also be overturned making our membership of the EU unlawful , so why just drop out and pretend it never happened., then we could all be friends again.

AGD

[Bulletguy]

Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-30 5:34 PM

 

Difficult one this. It is almost 30 years since I had the first of my four heart attacks, so I am constantly amazed to find that I have survived the night and look likely to live another day. We came to France because my dear wife has family here and on the assumption that my being ten years older than her, and having regard for my potential medical frailty, we expected that I would pre-decease her, and it seemed reasonable to try to ensure that she has family around her when she is on her own. However, the best laid schemes of mice and men,........ as they say, and poor old CG has been diagnosed with a degenerative immune condition, and it is no longer certain that it will be CG who is left on her own. Regardless of the end result of this Brexit farce we are now starting to think that we might prefer to spend our last days back in the UK where we can at least understand the language. We will certainly lose a lot of money when we try to sell our lovely little house, so it is difficult to start to plan anything yet, but we try to be realistic.

There is one point though, I think of France as a country that is for the most part quite beautiful, but it is almost full of Frenchmen and they do detract from what could otherwise be a very pleasant place to live.

Another point, I seem to be as fit as a tick and and at this time I feel that I could carry one for years yet so please do not be concerned on my account.

AGD

Well yes, France does tend to be "full of French folk" which is a bit of a damn nuisance making life unpleasant. Trump would tell them to go back to where they came from.

 

I don't personally know any British immigrants in France or Spain but know both countries are well noted for their Brit enclaves which to me, has always seemed rather odd, particularly given Brits (in UK) penchant for complaining about any 'funny foreigner' folk here who don't integrate. True, some don't...but they are a minority.

 

I've met a few British who live and work in Germany, Austria and Bulgaria. All spoke the language fluently so i'm at a loss as to how you've lived in France for X number of years without learning the language.

[jumpstart]

My father used to moan about the French quite a bit, as a family we always loved going there, but then......he was French.

[Barryd999]

Bulletguy - 2019-09-30 8:21 PM

 

Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-30 5:34 PM

 

Difficult one this. It is almost 30 years since I had the first of my four heart attacks, so I am constantly amazed to find that I have survived the night and look likely to live another day. We came to France because my dear wife has family here and on the assumption that my being ten years older than her, and having regard for my potential medical frailty, we expected that I would pre-decease her, and it seemed reasonable to try to ensure that she has family around her when she is on her own. However, the best laid schemes of mice and men,........ as they say, and poor old CG has been diagnosed with a degenerative immune condition, and it is no longer certain that it will be CG who is left on her own. Regardless of the end result of this Brexit farce we are now starting to think that we might prefer to spend our last days back in the UK where we can at least understand the language. We will certainly lose a lot of money when we try to sell our lovely little house, so it is difficult to start to plan anything yet, but we try to be realistic.

There is one point though, I think of France as a country that is for the most part quite beautiful, but it is almost full of Frenchmen and they do detract from what could otherwise be a very pleasant place to live.

Another point, I seem to be as fit as a tick and and at this time I feel that I could carry one for years yet so please do not be concerned on my account.

AGD

Well yes, France does tend to be "full of French folk" which is a bit of a damn nuisance making life unpleasant. Trump would tell them to go back to where they came from.

 

I don't personally know any British immigrants in France or Spain but know both countries are well noted for their Brit enclaves which to me, has always seemed rather odd, particularly given Brits (in UK) penchant for complaining about any 'funny foreigner' folk here who don't integrate. True, some don't...but they are a minority.

 

I've met a few British who live and work in Germany, Austria and Bulgaria. All spoke the language fluently so i'm at a loss as to how you've lived in France for X number of years without learning the language.

 

Most of the ex pats I know in France do integrate and they tell me if you do then life is so much better. That makes sense to me. Ive spend a lot of time in France over the past decade and Ive generally found the French great. A bit bonkers and peculiar at times but I find that appealing. What I do know is that by making an effort to talk to them in French even if your sh1t at it is always appreciated. I do know they really dont take to Brits who go over there with a pompous superior attitude and you do see them. Makes you wonder why these type of Brits go abroad at all.

[Brian Kirby]

Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-30 5:34 PM.....................There is one point though, I think of France as a country that is for the most part quite beautiful, but it is almost full of Frenchmen and they do detract from what could otherwise be a very pleasant place to live.

Another point, I seem to be as fit as a tick and and at this time I feel that I could carry one for years yet so please do not be concerned on my account. AGD

So, your best remedy would be to learn the language, and get to know the people. There is no such thing as "the French", any more than there is such a thing as the English, the Irish, the Scots or the Welsh. There are regional and local difference all over the country but, if you take the trouble to speak their language, and to get to know the people, they are generally very friendly, very funny, very generous, honest, and almost invariably polite. Whether you will be able to stay will depend on how events around Brexit turn out, and what legal hoops you may have to jump through to secure your rights to do so. However, given the choice, and seeing what state the UK has descended into at present, I'd choose France over the UK any day. Good luck whatever you decide.

[Brian Kirby]

Archiesgrandad - 2019-09-30 6:40 PM

Brian you appear to be an intelligent man, you have lived through many national elections and probably 2 referendums, so you know exactly how the British system works. Although there have always been those who think that the current system is not fair, and you may be one of those few, that view has failed to attract the attention of the majority of people in the UK, and the major political parties have so far not expressed any interest in changing to a different system, so as a UK citizen you are expected to accept that in any national election or referendum held in the UK the candidate or choice receiving the highest number of votes will be declared the winner. The choice to leave the EU received the largest number of votes in the referendum so it is decreed that the people of the UK have voted to leave the EU.

If, however, you really feel that the decision should be overturned then how truly committed are you to that reaction, it must be reasonable to assume that you would want the decision on previous referendum overturned, which would of course, mean that the referendum by which we voted to join the EU must also be overturned making our membership of the EU unlawful , so why just drop out and pretend it never happened., then we could all be friends again. AGD

Yes, I am aware of how the British system works. In this context it has two components: elections and, since 1975, referendums. The two should not be lumped together as equivalent. Rather than go on about that at length, there is a good Wiki explanation here: http://tinyurl.com/gslqybs

 

I much prefer our traditional means of government by parliament, as elected at elections, to referendums, of which we have no tradition. If you look at the Wiki piece, on referendums I am in the Alien Device camp.

 

So far as the Brexit referendum is concerned I do not dispute that in terms of the conduct of the vote, and the count, it was well and properly conducted.

 

However, in terms of the campaigns beforehand, the simplistic question that was asked, and the preparatory information that was provided to the electorate, it was a complete shambles and I have thought since it was first announced that, conducted as it was, the result should have been challenged legally.

 

It has since become clear to me that that preparatory information could not have been presented because the government had not done its own homework on what Brexit meant or entailed. I assume this omission underlay Mrs May's asinine phrase "Brexit means Brexit".

 

We are now finding that out after the vote, and are seeing that it is far more complex, with far more far reaching implications, than was ever made clear before the vote. In short, the referendum asked a question of child like simplicity on an issue that, post vote, is proving impossible to deliver. In short, the electorate was sold a false prospectus.

 

People were led to believe that all was possible when it was not, and voted in good faith for what could not be granted. Surely that is clear? Were it not so, we should already have left with satisfactory terms agreed with the EU.

 

The over-riding difference between an election and a referendum is that when we elect a government we know that even if that government proves a disaster, in five max years time they can be replaced in the hope the next government will do better. Not so with referendums: they are held as one off events in order to inform governments of public preference on a particular issue. That is why they are, in the UK, advisory and not legally binding. It was Cameron who gave the rash and extremely ill advised undertaking, on behalf of government, to deliver on the outcome. That same Cameron who had failed to do his homework on what Brexit entailed, were the vote to go that way. He did not, at that point, think he would ever have to deliver Brexit, which seems to be why he fled when the result was announced.

 

Pleading that if I think this referendum result should be over turned I should also apply the same thinking to the 1975 referendum is an ingenious ploy, but makes no dense at all to me. As a result of that referendum we joined the EEC, and have been members of it for the past 45 years. Trying now to reverse that vote is exactly what this last referendum seeks to do. Where s the difference? There would still be 45 years of integration with what is now a confederation of 28 member states to disentangle. It could and can be done amicably, but not in months, and not to our advantage.

 

So yes, I accept the result was that a (small - just under 4 voters in every 100) majority of votes cast were in favour of leaving, but I also accept the advice of expert opinion that leaving is against our best interests. So I persist, in the only ways open to me, to argue that shooting one's self in the foot is not the best solution to a problem that does not, in reality, exist.

 

We are where we now are as a result of a huge political mis-calculation made by a government that thought it would never have to deliver on the outcome, so failed to make any plans for how to do so. I see no sense in pursuing such an ill-considered venture - however many people voted for it. It was gross irresponsibility.

 

Those who launched this catastrophe must eventually be made to answer for it, but I see no justification for defending it, or acquiescing in it. I rather liked the UK in which I grew up, and should like to continue doing so, but that liking is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain.

[747]

Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:42 PM

 

747 - 2019-09-30 1:10 PM

 

I'm with AGD on Brexit and so are many others.

 

The more that Remainers juggle percentages and numbers to 'verify' their outlook, the more Brexiteers get annoyed. Yet Remainers take no responsibility for the bad feelings which have finally reached the floor of the Westminster Chamber. None of it has been caused by them ... apparently.

 

Everywhere Boris goes there is an organised gang of professional agitators (like in Luxembourg). So, who is paying for all this. We hear plenty about Billionnaires funding the Brexit camp but nothing about the likes of Soros et al.

 

I have said before that I come from a background where whingers and whiners are looked down upon (even despised at times). The worst kind of whiner is the one who whines non-stop yet never gets off his Sofa to do anything about it (I realise Barry has actually attended demonstrations and so might get off with just having electrodes attached to his genitals). As for the rest of you Remainers, I now fervently hope for a swift Brexit just to spite you. ;-)

 

Perhaps its important though to remind people of what the feelings and outlook was three and a half years ago though. Brexit was indeed sold with a vision of the UK being so clever and important we would be able to have our cake and eat it. Brexiteers in the main believed that and thats what the percentages show. Hardly any of them thought we would be leaving on no deal and virtually all of them said they wanted to leave with a good deal, unless they were also lying of course.

 

I spent over three and a half years campaigning to try and make people see that we wouldnt get that fantastic deal and therefore it might be a good idea to have a vote on it at the end. I Dont mean on here either. We seem to have failed as there is little talk on a final vote now. I just think people need to think back to what they envisaged the outcome to be back in 2016 and ask yourself is what we are looking at now with a no deal and all the predictions of what that means even remotely like what you envisaged in 2016.

 

Your memory has been suspect on a number of occasions Barry. Your memory of three and a half years ago is no longer accurate due to your crusade to stop Brexit. There were no lies told by the Remainer camp back then according to you. I'm sorry but nobody listens to you because you preach at them ... all the time, non stop and you have become an irritation. I should really refer to you by using the nickname Thrush because that is what you have become, an irritating ****. Your mantra has been repeated too many times, it is the same old, same old. You have been angry for 3.5 years. If Brexit is stopped, the other side (who did not march or campaign because they expected the referendum result to be carried out) will have their turn to protest. I am fairly laid back (unless somebody does something to affect me or my family directly) but I am angry that a principle has been abandoned, the principle of a citizens vote. I don't want a rerun of the same vote, I want the result carried out. Your opinion counts for nothing when set against the wishes of 17.4 million others.

[Barryd999]

747 - 2019-09-30 11:37 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:42 PM

 

747 - 2019-09-30 1:10 PM

 

I'm with AGD on Brexit and so are many others.

 

The more that Remainers juggle percentages and numbers to 'verify' their outlook, the more Brexiteers get annoyed. Yet Remainers take no responsibility for the bad feelings which have finally reached the floor of the Westminster Chamber. None of it has been caused by them ... apparently.

 

Everywhere Boris goes there is an organised gang of professional agitators (like in Luxembourg). So, who is paying for all this. We hear plenty about Billionnaires funding the Brexit camp but nothing about the likes of Soros et al.

 

I have said before that I come from a background where whingers and whiners are looked down upon (even despised at times). The worst kind of whiner is the one who whines non-stop yet never gets off his Sofa to do anything about it (I realise Barry has actually attended demonstrations and so might get off with just having electrodes attached to his genitals). As for the rest of you Remainers, I now fervently hope for a swift Brexit just to spite you. ;-)

 

Perhaps its important though to remind people of what the feelings and outlook was three and a half years ago though. Brexit was indeed sold with a vision of the UK being so clever and important we would be able to have our cake and eat it. Brexiteers in the main believed that and thats what the percentages show. Hardly any of them thought we would be leaving on no deal and virtually all of them said they wanted to leave with a good deal, unless they were also lying of course.

 

I spent over three and a half years campaigning to try and make people see that we wouldnt get that fantastic deal and therefore it might be a good idea to have a vote on it at the end. I Dont mean on here either. We seem to have failed as there is little talk on a final vote now. I just think people need to think back to what they envisaged the outcome to be back in 2016 and ask yourself is what we are looking at now with a no deal and all the predictions of what that means even remotely like what you envisaged in 2016.

 

Your memory has been suspect on a number of occasions Barry. Your memory of three and a half years ago is no longer accurate due to your crusade to stop Brexit. There were no lies told by the Remainer camp back then according to you. I'm sorry but nobody listens to you because you preach at them ... all the time, non stop and you have become an irritation. I should really refer to you by using the nickname Thrush because that is what you have become, an irritating ****. Your mantra has been repeated too many times, it is the same old, same old. You have been angry for 3.5 years. If Brexit is stopped, the other side (who did not march or campaign because they expected the referendum result to be carried out) will have their turn to protest. I am fairly laid back (unless somebody does something to affect me or my family directly) but I am angry that a principle has been abandoned, the principle of a citizens vote. I don't want a rerun of the same vote, I want the result carried out. Your opinion counts for nothing when set against the wishes of 17.4 million others.

 

I would say my memory is better than yours but I am also pretty sure I can pull up exactly what was said and facts and figures a lot easier than most. I might be passionate about stopping Brexit (not so much anymore to be honest) but I dont know how you have the audacity to call me angry. You have thrown your toys out of the pram more times than Dave Pelmet has scoffed Pie and Mash at Sweaty Betty's 24 hour Ingleeesh Brexit bar and grill in Costa del Twunt.

 

You should take a look at the governments own figures for the effect a no deal Brexit or any kind of Brexit for that matter will have on the north east where you and your family live when you talk about getting angry if somebody does something to affect you or your family. FFS! you should be thanking people like me and movements like "North East for Europe" because that is exactly the region we have been fighting for. I dont want a rerun of the 2016 vote either. All I ever wanted was a confirmatory vote on whatever s**tty deal the Tories came up with or as it seems the no deal nobody was ever talking about ever happening in 2016 which now seems imminent.

 

Yeah your angry alright, angry because you know I am fecking right and clearly as you see me as an irritating twaat I Can see how that might make you angry.

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2019-10-01 8:23 AM

 

747 - 2019-09-30 11:37 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:42 PM

 

747 - 2019-09-30 1:10 PM

 

I'm with AGD on Brexit and so are many others.

 

The more that Remainers juggle percentages and numbers to 'verify' their outlook, the more Brexiteers get annoyed. Yet Remainers take no responsibility for the bad feelings which have finally reached the floor of the Westminster Chamber. None of it has been caused by them ... apparently.

 

Everywhere Boris goes there is an organised gang of professional agitators (like in Luxembourg). So, who is paying for all this. We hear plenty about Billionnaires funding the Brexit camp but nothing about the likes of Soros et al.

 

I have said before that I come from a background where whingers and whiners are looked down upon (even despised at times). The worst kind of whiner is the one who whines non-stop yet never gets off his Sofa to do anything about it (I realise Barry has actually attended demonstrations and so might get off with just having electrodes attached to his genitals). As for the rest of you Remainers, I now fervently hope for a swift Brexit just to spite you. ;-)

 

Perhaps its important though to remind people of what the feelings and outlook was three and a half years ago though. Brexit was indeed sold with a vision of the UK being so clever and important we would be able to have our cake and eat it. Brexiteers in the main believed that and thats what the percentages show. Hardly any of them thought we would be leaving on no deal and virtually all of them said they wanted to leave with a good deal, unless they were also lying of course.

 

I spent over three and a half years campaigning to try and make people see that we wouldnt get that fantastic deal and therefore it might be a good idea to have a vote on it at the end. I Dont mean on here either. We seem to have failed as there is little talk on a final vote now. I just think people need to think back to what they envisaged the outcome to be back in 2016 and ask yourself is what we are looking at now with a no deal and all the predictions of what that means even remotely like what you envisaged in 2016.

 

Your memory has been suspect on a number of occasions Barry. Your memory of three and a half years ago is no longer accurate due to your crusade to stop Brexit. There were no lies told by the Remainer camp back then according to you. I'm sorry but nobody listens to you because you preach at them ... all the time, non stop and you have become an irritation. I should really refer to you by using the nickname Thrush because that is what you have become, an irritating ****. Your mantra has been repeated too many times, it is the same old, same old. You have been angry for 3.5 years. If Brexit is stopped, the other side (who did not march or campaign because they expected the referendum result to be carried out) will have their turn to protest. I am fairly laid back (unless somebody does something to affect me or my family directly) but I am angry that a principle has been abandoned, the principle of a citizens vote. I don't want a rerun of the same vote, I want the result carried out. Your opinion counts for nothing when set against the wishes of 17.4 million others.

 

I would say my memory is better than yours but I am also pretty sure I can pull up exactly what was said and facts and figures a lot easier than most. I might be passionate about stopping Brexit (not so much anymore to be honest) but I dont know how you have the audacity to call me angry. You have thrown your toys out of the pram more times than Dave Pelmet has scoffed Pie and Mash at Sweaty Betty's 24 hour Ingleeesh Brexit bar and grill in Costa del Twunt.

 

You should take a look at the governments own figures for the effect a no deal Brexit or any kind of Brexit for that matter will have on the north east where you and your family live when you talk about getting angry if somebody does something to affect you or your family. FFS! you should be thanking people like me and movements like "North East for Europe" because that is exactly the region we have been fighting for. I dont want a rerun of the 2016 vote either. All I ever wanted was a confirmatory vote on whatever s**tty deal the Tories came up with or as it seems the no deal nobody was ever talking about ever happening in 2016 which now seems imminent.

 

Yeah your angry alright, angry because you know I am fecking right and clearly as you see me as an irritating twaat I Can see how that might make you angry.

 

Nah we're not angry yet ;-) .........

 

We just find you anti democratic Losers extremely annoying *-).........

 

Succeed in stopping Brexit then the EU & You will discover how angry we can get >:-) ........

 

 

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2019-10-01 8:47 AM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-10-01 8:23 AM

 

747 - 2019-09-30 11:37 PM

 

Barryd999 - 2019-09-30 5:42 PM

 

747 - 2019-09-30 1:10 PM

 

I'm with AGD on Brexit and so are many others.

 

The more that Remainers juggle percentages and numbers to 'verify' their outlook, the more Brexiteers get annoyed. Yet Remainers take no responsibility for the bad feelings which have finally reached the floor of the Westminster Chamber. None of it has been caused by them ... apparently.

 

Everywhere Boris goes there is an organised gang of professional agitators (like in Luxembourg). So, who is paying for all this. We hear plenty about Billionnaires funding the Brexit camp but nothing about the likes of Soros et al.

 

I have said before that I come from a background where whingers and whiners are looked down upon (even despised at times). The worst kind of whiner is the one who whines non-stop yet never gets off his Sofa to do anything about it (I realise Barry has actually attended demonstrations and so might get off with just having electrodes attached to his genitals). As for the rest of you Remainers, I now fervently hope for a swift Brexit just to spite you. ;-)

 

Perhaps its important though to remind people of what the feelings and outlook was three and a half years ago though. Brexit was indeed sold with a vision of the UK being so clever and important we would be able to have our cake and eat it. Brexiteers in the main believed that and thats what the percentages show. Hardly any of them thought we would be leaving on no deal and virtually all of them said they wanted to leave with a good deal, unless they were also lying of course.

 

I spent over three and a half years campaigning to try and make people see that we wouldnt get that fantastic deal and therefore it might be a good idea to have a vote on it at the end. I Dont mean on here either. We seem to have failed as there is little talk on a final vote now. I just think people need to think back to what they envisaged the outcome to be back in 2016 and ask yourself is what we are looking at now with a no deal and all the predictions of what that means even remotely like what you envisaged in 2016.

 

Your memory has been suspect on a number of occasions Barry. Your memory of three and a half years ago is no longer accurate due to your crusade to stop Brexit. There were no lies told by the Remainer camp back then according to you. I'm sorry but nobody listens to you because you preach at them ... all the time, non stop and you have become an irritation. I should really refer to you by using the nickname Thrush because that is what you have become, an irritating ****. Your mantra has been repeated too many times, it is the same old, same old. You have been angry for 3.5 years. If Brexit is stopped, the other side (who did not march or campaign because they expected the referendum result to be carried out) will have their turn to protest. I am fairly laid back (unless somebody does something to affect me or my family directly) but I am angry that a principle has been abandoned, the principle of a citizens vote. I don't want a rerun of the same vote, I want the result carried out. Your opinion counts for nothing when set against the wishes of 17.4 million others.

 

I would say my memory is better than yours but I am also pretty sure I can pull up exactly what was said and facts and figures a lot easier than most. I might be passionate about stopping Brexit (not so much anymore to be honest) but I dont know how you have the audacity to call me angry. You have thrown your toys out of the pram more times than Dave Pelmet has scoffed Pie and Mash at Sweaty Betty's 24 hour Ingleeesh Brexit bar and grill in Costa del Twunt.

 

You should take a look at the governments own figures for the effect a no deal Brexit or any kind of Brexit for that matter will have on the north east where you and your family live when you talk about getting angry if somebody does something to affect you or your family. FFS! you should be thanking people like me and movements like "North East for Europe" because that is exactly the region we have been fighting for. I dont want a rerun of the 2016 vote either. All I ever wanted was a confirmatory vote on whatever s**tty deal the Tories came up with or as it seems the no deal nobody was ever talking about ever happening in 2016 which now seems imminent.

 

Yeah your angry alright, angry because you know I am fecking right and clearly as you see me as an irritating twaat I Can see how that might make you angry.

 

Nah we're not angry yet ;-) .........

 

We just find you anti democratic Losers extremely annoying *-).........

 

Succeed in stopping Brexit then the EU & You will discover how angry we can get >:-) ........

 

 

Careful Dave. In this current climate that could be considered as inciting violence on the internet which I am pretty sure is illegal! (lol) Not that the thought of a few hundred irate pensioners fills me with fear and dread.

 

As I keep saying and have always said. I want a democratic public majority to decide on the Brexit outcome. What is anti democratic about that? The government and parliament have had three and a half years to find a solution and they cant, let the people decide on whatever options are left. Then maybe we can all move on.

[jumpstart]

So let the “people “decide again and MP’s. say No.dont like that.