Bulletguy Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:36 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 6:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:24 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 6:19 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 3:38 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:06 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 8:23 AM……………………..If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down >:-) .......Help us out here Dave, can you please quote the EU directive that imposes that duty on us?As Pelmet has avoided answering this obviously he was unable to quote the directive. Hardly surprising as no such directive exists! Lies just trip off his tongue daily. *-)I know, but I like to be fair and helpful, so I thought he should have a chance. However, I'll help him with a clue. The answer lies in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004. Specifically, in Chapter VI thereof, from which he will see that no such obligation exists, and that we have the right - subject to reasonable conditions - to "restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health." It's all there on't interweb, so no need to remain ill-informed.Facts over hysteria, eh? Quite pointless, of course! :-Dhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/07/judges-rule-romanian-criminal-cannot-deported-eu-law/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-rules-stopped-britain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/There's a couple of FACTS for you Brian *-) ..........Errrm.......without even opening either of those links, both are persons already here.....so who let them in? And your original claim was about "being forced to import EU criminals".....not export. *-)"In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a serious threat."https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/workers/index_en.htmWhich concerns deporting and not "forced to import" the latter of which was what you claimed in your original post. Unable to show an EU directive for that (because there is no such EU directive!) as Brian asked you, typically you now change tack. *-) [it's pretty obvious to me that the EU say's we cant deny them entry unless they admit they're coming to the UK to commit crime *-) Unless a person has a criminal history then there is absolutely no lawful reason for a country to deny that person entry. If they do have one, then it is not an EU problem to address but whatever border force in whichever country at their point of entry. Quite simple really.But then again you are a Corbyn supporter so will have no problem sticking up for terrorists or rapists and murderers *-) ........ Utter tosh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:23 PMjumpstart - 2019-11-13 12:04 PMmalc d - 2019-11-13 9:52 AMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-12 9:52 PM People need to start asking themselves why there are no economic forecasts that show Brexit as a benefit to the man in the street - which is all of us.If there were any more " economic forecasts " ( or as I prefer to call them ' Informed Guesses ' ) people would simply believe / not believe them according to which side they were on. So a bit pointless ?What I would like to see ( not previously attempted by leavers as far as I know ) are some facts about the benefits to each of us, of leaving.Specifically I would like to know what we will be able to do after we have left the EU, that we can't do now. :-|Stop paying into their fund.So that's it? Disregard the economic advantages of membership in order to stop contributing to the common costs? This must be the ultimate a penny wise, pound foolish, doctrine.This thread has drawn my attention to the fact that I have been paying into a club for many many years and I've suddenly realised that nearly all the money has been spent on other people !But , it's the RAC - so I've decided to carry on. 8-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 13, 2019 Share Posted November 13, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-13 7:09 PMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 6:46 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:36 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 6:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:24 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 6:19 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 3:38 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:06 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 8:23 AM……………………..If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down >:-) .......Help us out here Dave, can you please quote the EU directive that imposes that duty on us?As Pelmet has avoided answering this obviously he was unable to quote the directive. Hardly surprising as no such directive exists! Lies just trip off his tongue daily. *-)I know, but I like to be fair and helpful, so I thought he should have a chance. However, I'll help him with a clue. The answer lies in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004. Specifically, in Chapter VI thereof, from which he will see that no such obligation exists, and that we have the right - subject to reasonable conditions - to "restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health." It's all there on't interweb, so no need to remain ill-informed.Facts over hysteria, eh? Quite pointless, of course! :-Dhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/07/judges-rule-romanian-criminal-cannot-deported-eu-law/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-rules-stopped-britain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/There's a couple of FACTS for you Brian *-) ..........Errrm.......without even opening either of those links, both are persons already here.....so who let them in? And your original claim was about "being forced to import EU criminals".....not export. *-)"In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a serious threat."https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/workers/index_en.htmIt's pretty obvious to me that the EU say's we cant deny them entry unless they admit they're coming to the UK to commit crime *-) ..........But then again you are a Corbyn supporter so will have no problem sticking up for terrorists or rapists and murderers *-) ........Dave. I presume you want trade deals when we leave with the rest of the world although knowing you probably not but lets assume you do. You do realise that one of the first things countries will ask for is Freedom of movement. India already said as much. What makes you think that by swapping Europeans for Asians, Americans or Australians they wont have the odd criminal amongst them?Fortress Britain only exists in your mind. It will never happen. You keep telling us we are at near full employment therefore we are dependent on immigrants and guess what? Some of them are criminals just like some Brits are criminals. Who would have though it eh?Unlike you Barry ;-) ........I think it would be beneficial for the UK to be able to decide between an Indian brain surgeon and a Romanian pickpocket >:-) ........Unfortunately the EU prevents us from making that choice >:-( .........You think they dont have pickpockets in India? Maybe you think we will be able to pick and choose but the clue is in the name. Free movement of people. Its not free movement of brain surgeons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-11-13 10:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 7:09 PMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 6:46 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:36 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 6:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:24 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 6:19 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 3:38 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:06 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 8:23 AM……………………..If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down >:-) .......Help us out here Dave, can you please quote the EU directive that imposes that duty on us?As Pelmet has avoided answering this obviously he was unable to quote the directive. Hardly surprising as no such directive exists! Lies just trip off his tongue daily. *-)I know, but I like to be fair and helpful, so I thought he should have a chance. However, I'll help him with a clue. The answer lies in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004. Specifically, in Chapter VI thereof, from which he will see that no such obligation exists, and that we have the right - subject to reasonable conditions - to "restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health." It's all there on't interweb, so no need to remain ill-informed.Facts over hysteria, eh? Quite pointless, of course! :-Dhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/07/judges-rule-romanian-criminal-cannot-deported-eu-law/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-rules-stopped-britain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/There's a couple of FACTS for you Brian *-) ..........Errrm.......without even opening either of those links, both are persons already here.....so who let them in? And your original claim was about "being forced to import EU criminals".....not export. *-)"In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a serious threat."https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/workers/index_en.htmIt's pretty obvious to me that the EU say's we cant deny them entry unless they admit they're coming to the UK to commit crime *-) ..........But then again you are a Corbyn supporter so will have no problem sticking up for terrorists or rapists and murderers *-) ........Dave. I presume you want trade deals when we leave with the rest of the world although knowing you probably not but lets assume you do. You do realise that one of the first things countries will ask for is Freedom of movement. India already said as much. What makes you think that by swapping Europeans for Asians, Americans or Australians they wont have the odd criminal amongst them?Fortress Britain only exists in your mind. It will never happen. You keep telling us we are at near full employment therefore we are dependent on immigrants and guess what? Some of them are criminals just like some Brits are criminals. Who would have though it eh?Unlike you Barry ;-) ........I think it would be beneficial for the UK to be able to decide between an Indian brain surgeon and a Romanian pickpocket >:-) ........Unfortunately the EU prevents us from making that choice >:-( .........You think they dont have pickpockets in India? Maybe you think we will be able to pick and choose but the clue is in the name. Free movement of people. Its not free movement of brain surgeons.The clue is..... if we had a Australian points based system the UK would not give any country free movement ;-) ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-14 7:46 AMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 10:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 7:09 PMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 6:46 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:36 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 6:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:24 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 6:19 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 3:38 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:06 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 8:23 AM……………………..If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down >:-) .......Help us out here Dave, can you please quote the EU directive that imposes that duty on us?As Pelmet has avoided answering this obviously he was unable to quote the directive. Hardly surprising as no such directive exists! Lies just trip off his tongue daily. *-)I know, but I like to be fair and helpful, so I thought he should have a chance. However, I'll help him with a clue. The answer lies in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004. Specifically, in Chapter VI thereof, from which he will see that no such obligation exists, and that we have the right - subject to reasonable conditions - to "restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health." It's all there on't interweb, so no need to remain ill-informed.Facts over hysteria, eh? Quite pointless, of course! :-Dhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/07/judges-rule-romanian-criminal-cannot-deported-eu-law/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-rules-stopped-britain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/There's a couple of FACTS for you Brian *-) ..........Errrm.......without even opening either of those links, both are persons already here.....so who let them in? And your original claim was about "being forced to import EU criminals".....not export. *-)"In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a serious threat."https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/workers/index_en.htmIt's pretty obvious to me that the EU say's we cant deny them entry unless they admit they're coming to the UK to commit crime *-) ..........But then again you are a Corbyn supporter so will have no problem sticking up for terrorists or rapists and murderers *-) ........Dave. I presume you want trade deals when we leave with the rest of the world although knowing you probably not but lets assume you do. You do realise that one of the first things countries will ask for is Freedom of movement. India already said as much. What makes you think that by swapping Europeans for Asians, Americans or Australians they wont have the odd criminal amongst them?Fortress Britain only exists in your mind. It will never happen. You keep telling us we are at near full employment therefore we are dependent on immigrants and guess what? Some of them are criminals just like some Brits are criminals. Who would have though it eh?Unlike you Barry ;-) ........I think it would be beneficial for the UK to be able to decide between an Indian brain surgeon and a Romanian pickpocket >:-) ........Unfortunately the EU prevents us from making that choice >:-( .........You think they dont have pickpockets in India? Maybe you think we will be able to pick and choose but the clue is in the name. Free movement of people. Its not free movement of brain surgeons.The clue is..... if we had a Australian points based system the UK would not give any country free movement ;-) ...............Johnson came out with that guff about an Australian points system in 2016 and it was soon dropped as it was proved to be not suitable here. I see you and he have forgotten all that and are banging on about it again. Even the Ex Australian PM said it wont work here. Its designed to encourage immigration not deter it. As I said if you want a trade deal with another bloc or country and they insist on free movement they will want free movement for all. If you start saying "well we want to pick and choose" chances are they will tell you to get lost. Depends who's holding all the cards doesnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-11-14 9:24 AMpelmetman - 2019-11-14 7:46 AMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 10:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 7:09 PMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 6:46 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:36 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 6:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:24 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 6:19 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 3:38 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:06 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 8:23 AM……………………..If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down >:-) .......Help us out here Dave, can you please quote the EU directive that imposes that duty on us?As Pelmet has avoided answering this obviously he was unable to quote the directive. Hardly surprising as no such directive exists! Lies just trip off his tongue daily. *-)I know, but I like to be fair and helpful, so I thought he should have a chance. However, I'll help him with a clue. The answer lies in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004. Specifically, in Chapter VI thereof, from which he will see that no such obligation exists, and that we have the right - subject to reasonable conditions - to "restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health." It's all there on't interweb, so no need to remain ill-informed.Facts over hysteria, eh? Quite pointless, of course! :-Dhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/07/judges-rule-romanian-criminal-cannot-deported-eu-law/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-rules-stopped-britain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/There's a couple of FACTS for you Brian *-) ..........Errrm.......without even opening either of those links, both are persons already here.....so who let them in? And your original claim was about "being forced to import EU criminals".....not export. *-)"In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a serious threat."https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/workers/index_en.htmIt's pretty obvious to me that the EU say's we cant deny them entry unless they admit they're coming to the UK to commit crime *-) ..........But then again you are a Corbyn supporter so will have no problem sticking up for terrorists or rapists and murderers *-) ........Dave. I presume you want trade deals when we leave with the rest of the world although knowing you probably not but lets assume you do. You do realise that one of the first things countries will ask for is Freedom of movement. India already said as much. What makes you think that by swapping Europeans for Asians, Americans or Australians they wont have the odd criminal amongst them?Fortress Britain only exists in your mind. It will never happen. You keep telling us we are at near full employment therefore we are dependent on immigrants and guess what? Some of them are criminals just like some Brits are criminals. Who would have though it eh?Unlike you Barry ;-) ........I think it would be beneficial for the UK to be able to decide between an Indian brain surgeon and a Romanian pickpocket >:-) ........Unfortunately the EU prevents us from making that choice >:-( .........You think they dont have pickpockets in India? Maybe you think we will be able to pick and choose but the clue is in the name. Free movement of people. Its not free movement of brain surgeons.The clue is..... if we had a Australian points based system the UK would not give any country free movement ;-) ...............Johnson came out with that guff about an Australian points system in 2016 and it was soon dropped as it was proved to be not suitable here. I see you and he have forgotten all that and are banging on about it again. Even the Ex Australian PM said it wont work here. Its designed to encourage immigration not deter it. As I said if you want a trade deal with another bloc or country and they insist on free movement they will want free movement for all. If you start saying "well we want to pick and choose" chances are they will tell you to get lost. Depends who's holding all the cards doesnt it?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50338073Doesn't look like they've changed their minds on a points based system to me B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-14 9:28 AMBarryd999 - 2019-11-14 9:24 AMpelmetman - 2019-11-14 7:46 AMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 10:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 7:09 PMBarryd999 - 2019-11-13 6:46 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:36 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 6:31 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:24 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 6:19 PMBulletguy - 2019-11-13 3:38 PMBrian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:06 PMpelmetman - 2019-11-13 8:23 AM……………………..If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down >:-) .......Help us out here Dave, can you please quote the EU directive that imposes that duty on us?As Pelmet has avoided answering this obviously he was unable to quote the directive. Hardly surprising as no such directive exists! Lies just trip off his tongue daily. *-)I know, but I like to be fair and helpful, so I thought he should have a chance. However, I'll help him with a clue. The answer lies in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004. Specifically, in Chapter VI thereof, from which he will see that no such obligation exists, and that we have the right - subject to reasonable conditions - to "restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health." It's all there on't interweb, so no need to remain ill-informed.Facts over hysteria, eh? Quite pointless, of course! :-Dhttps://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/07/judges-rule-romanian-criminal-cannot-deported-eu-law/https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-rules-stopped-britain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/There's a couple of FACTS for you Brian *-) ..........Errrm.......without even opening either of those links, both are persons already here.....so who let them in? And your original claim was about "being forced to import EU criminals".....not export. *-)"In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a serious threat."https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/workers/index_en.htmIt's pretty obvious to me that the EU say's we cant deny them entry unless they admit they're coming to the UK to commit crime *-) ..........But then again you are a Corbyn supporter so will have no problem sticking up for terrorists or rapists and murderers *-) ........Dave. I presume you want trade deals when we leave with the rest of the world although knowing you probably not but lets assume you do. You do realise that one of the first things countries will ask for is Freedom of movement. India already said as much. What makes you think that by swapping Europeans for Asians, Americans or Australians they wont have the odd criminal amongst them?Fortress Britain only exists in your mind. It will never happen. You keep telling us we are at near full employment therefore we are dependent on immigrants and guess what? Some of them are criminals just like some Brits are criminals. Who would have though it eh?Unlike you Barry ;-) ........I think it would be beneficial for the UK to be able to decide between an Indian brain surgeon and a Romanian pickpocket >:-) ........Unfortunately the EU prevents us from making that choice >:-( .........You think they dont have pickpockets in India? Maybe you think we will be able to pick and choose but the clue is in the name. Free movement of people. Its not free movement of brain surgeons.The clue is..... if we had a Australian points based system the UK would not give any country free movement ;-) ...............Johnson came out with that guff about an Australian points system in 2016 and it was soon dropped as it was proved to be not suitable here. I see you and he have forgotten all that and are banging on about it again. Even the Ex Australian PM said it wont work here. Its designed to encourage immigration not deter it. As I said if you want a trade deal with another bloc or country and they insist on free movement they will want free movement for all. If you start saying "well we want to pick and choose" chances are they will tell you to get lost. Depends who's holding all the cards doesnt it?https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50338073Doesn't look like they've changed their minds on a points based system to me B-) .........Doctors told to leave UK after Home Office refuses to issue them visashttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/nhs-doctors-visas-home-office-uk-leave-immigration-cap-a8383311.htmlNHS doctor told to leave Britain or go to jail - despite spending half her life in UKhttps://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nhs-doctor-told-leave-britain-20383996Thousands of UK visa applications by doctors refusedhttps://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/12/uk-visa-applications-doctors-thousands-refused-figures-show-nhs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 https://apple.news/ANSzG_HgLQAKVYXEML3Lb1w British citizens of Russian descent. I suppose it’ll be illegal for donations from the Welsh next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-13 6:24 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-13 6:19 PM Bulletguy - 2019-11-13 3:38 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-13 1:06 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-13 8:23 AM……………………..If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down >:-) ....... Help us out here Dave, can you please quote the EU directive that imposes that duty on us? As Pelmet has avoided answering this obviously he was unable to quote the directive. Hardly surprising as no such directive exists! Lies just trip off his tongue daily. *-) I know, but I like to be fair and helpful, so I thought he should have a chance. However, I'll help him with a clue. The answer lies in DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL of 29 April 2004. Specifically, in Chapter VI thereof, from which he will see that no such obligation exists, and that we have the right - subject to reasonable conditions - to "restrict the freedom of movement and residence of Union citizens and their family members, irrespective of nationality, on grounds of public policy, public security or public health." It's all there on't interweb, so no need to remain ill-informed. Facts over hysteria, eh? Quite pointless, of course! :-D 1 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/07/07/judges-rule-romanian-criminal-cannot-deported-eu-law/ 2 p/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/06/eu-rules-stopped-britain-deporting-murders-rapists-and-violent-c/ There's a couple of FACTS for you Brian *-) .......... 3 ps://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/residence/residence-rights/workers/index_en.htm "In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a serious threat." 4 in essence we cant deport them unless they admit they're about to steal, rape or murder someone :-| .......... 5 as I've already highlighted we cant even keep out afterwards >:-( ........ 1 The case was appealed, and the court of appeal found the tribunal was wrong in law and that Viscu could be deported. In reaching that decision the appeal court relied heavily on existing ECJ judgements. So this was not a case of the ECJ preventing deportation, but the UK tribunal getting its law wrong. 2 Of the 50 cases cited (back in 2016, when Vote Leave was trying frighten people into voting leave) all the deportations were blocked by UK tribunals (as in the Viscu case), not by the ECJ. 3 Correct. 4 No, but we do have to prove that is what they have been doing. These acts constitute a failure to integrate properly into British society, as evidenced by the criminals concerned having received custodial sentences. Under those circumstances, they can be deported. 5 We can, and the fact that we sometimes fail to do so does not disprove that fact. It merely proves that our border staff miss them, or fail to apply the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 2 Of the 50 cases cited (back in 2016, when Vote Leave was trying frighten people into voting leave) all the deportations were blocked by UK tribunals (as in the Viscu case), not by the ECJ. UK tribunals applying EU law *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 4 No, but we do have to prove that is what they have been doing. These acts constitute a failure to integrate properly into British society, as evidenced by the criminals concerned having received custodial sentences. Under those circumstances, they can be deported. They only get deported if they're really really really unlucky :-| ............ After costing the taxpayer a ruddy fortune *-) ......... Need I remind you of those child rapists who had their UK citizenship removed and were supposed to be deported? >:-( ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 5 We can, and the fact that we sometimes fail to do so does not disprove that fact. It merely proves that our border staff miss them, or fail to apply the law. Which just goes to show why they keep trying :-| ........... As our border force has to catch them every time whilst the illegals only need to get lucky once *-) ........ Because once they're here they've hit the taxpayer funded jackpot *-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-15 7:48 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 2 Of the 50 cases cited (back in 2016, when Vote Leave was trying frighten people into voting leave) all the deportations were blocked by UK tribunals (as in the Viscu case), not by the ECJ. UK tribunals applying EU law *-) ......... Well, actually no, because our government transposed those regulations into UK law without requesting a derogation, and after having agreed to them becoming EU law. That is why the cases can be heard under UK jurisdiction. The point is the cases you cited (from your usual non-factual sources) were not as you claim. Pays to check, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-15 7:53 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 4 No, but we do have to prove that is what they have been doing. These acts constitute a failure to integrate properly into British society, as evidenced by the criminals concerned having received custodial sentences. Under those circumstances, they can be deported. They only get deported if they're really really really unlucky :-| ............ After costing the taxpayer a ruddy fortune *-) ......... Need I remind you of those child rapists who had their UK citizenship removed and were supposed to be deported? >:-( ........ Dave, you posted "If we stopped being forced to import EU criminals then perhaps our crime rate would go down. As I showed you, we are not, and there is no such obligation. Your comments above are on a different topic, and have no relevance to your original post. You post ill-informed tripe, and you don't check your facts. I assume these "child rapists" fall into the same category as your fictitious 50 criminals - that the failure to deport has nothing to do with EU law, and everything to do with the way in which UK courts respond to UK law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-15 7:56 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 5 We can, and the fact that we sometimes fail to do so does not disprove that fact. It merely proves that our border staff miss them, or fail to apply the law. Which just goes to show why they keep trying :-| ........... As our border force has to catch them every time whilst the illegals only need to get lucky once *-) ........ Because once they're here they've hit the taxpayer funded jackpot *-) ........... Gordon Bennet! How would any alternative form of border controls change that? If Britain were a small impoverished country why would people want to come? As it is not, people want to come, and the game becomes catch the illegal entrant. In, or out of, the EU, that requires stringent control at our borders, and a government that is prepared to enforce that. The government creates the enforcement loopholes and blind spots through which some people may pass illegally, because it wants some immigration. So, some sneak in. They then disappear and become very difficult to detect, because unlike almost every developed country in the world, no-one I obliged to carry identification documents in the UK. It isn't the law that is at fault, it is that no-one in authority has the will to rigidly enforce it. Why? Go figure! As to the cost. Given a coastline (including islands) approaching 20,000 miles in length, plus the NI border, do you really think enforcing a totally impervious border would be any less costly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 11:22 AM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 7:56 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 5 We can, and the fact that we sometimes fail to do so does not disprove that fact. It merely proves that our border staff miss them, or fail to apply the law. Which just goes to show why they keep trying :-| ........... As our border force has to catch them every time whilst the illegals only need to get lucky once *-) ........ Because once they're here they've hit the taxpayer funded jackpot *-) ........... Gordon Bennet! How would any alternative form of border controls change that? If Britain were a small impoverished country why would people want to come? As it is not, people want to come, and the game becomes catch the illegal entrant. In, or out of, the EU, that requires stringent control at our borders, and a government that is prepared to enforce that. The government creates the enforcement loopholes and blind spots through which some people may pass illegally, because it wants some immigration. So, some sneak in. They then disappear and become very difficult to detect, because unlike almost every developed country in the world, no-one I obliged to carry identification documents in the UK. It isn't the law that is at fault, it is that no-one in authority has the will to rigidly enforce it. Why? Go figure! As to the cost. Given a coastline (including islands) approaching 20,000 miles in length, plus the NI border, do you really think enforcing a totally impervious border would be any less costly? You are starting to sound more like a Corbynite everyday Brian 8-) .......... No doubt you would like totally open borders to? ;-) ......... Perhaps once your little bit of East Sussex no longer uses English as their main language you'll have second thoughts? :D .......... Just askin >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-15 1:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 11:22 AM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 7:56 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 5 We can, and the fact that we sometimes fail to do so does not disprove that fact. It merely proves that our border staff miss them, or fail to apply the law. Which just goes to show why they keep trying :-| ........... As our border force has to catch them every time whilst the illegals only need to get lucky once *-) ........ Because once they're here they've hit the taxpayer funded jackpot *-) ........... Gordon Bennet! How would any alternative form of border controls change that? If Britain were a small impoverished country why would people want to come? As it is not, people want to come, and the game becomes catch the illegal entrant. In, or out of, the EU, that requires stringent control at our borders, and a government that is prepared to enforce that. The government creates the enforcement loopholes and blind spots through which some people may pass illegally, because it wants some immigration. So, some sneak in. They then disappear and become very difficult to detect, because unlike almost every developed country in the world, no-one I obliged to carry identification documents in the UK. It isn't the law that is at fault, it is that no-one in authority has the will to rigidly enforce it. Why? Go figure! As to the cost. Given a coastline (including islands) approaching 20,000 miles in length, plus the NI border, do you really think enforcing a totally impervious border would be any less costly? 1 You are starting to sound more like a Corbynite everyday Brian 8-) .......... 2 No doubt you would like totally open borders to? ;-) ......... 3 Perhaps once your little bit of East Sussex no longer uses English as their main language you'll have second thoughts? :D .......... Just askin >:-) ......... So, as usual no answer to my question, and no response to my points. 1 Show me where a "Corbynite" has made any of the points I made above. 2 What perverted field of reason leads you to that conclusion? 3 The problem for you is that it is HMG, of whichever political stripe, that controls the UK border, and all these dreadful migrants have been allowed in by both political parties. I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D But then, if the employers where you live hadn't wanted the migrants as workers, you wouldn't have them, would you? And if the people where you live had been prepared to do the work the migrants do, the employers wouldn't have wanted the migrants, would they? So the employers wouldn't have whispered in government's ear not to be too hard on immigration, would they? So you wouldn't have had so many frightening you, would you? So, in the final analysis, you're a victim of your local work ethic, and its consequences, who blames the presence of foreign workers on the EU, because that is where they came from, instead of identifying the real culprits, aren't you? Talk about chop logic! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 1:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 11:22 AM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 7:56 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 5 We can, and the fact that we sometimes fail to do so does not disprove that fact. It merely proves that our border staff miss them, or fail to apply the law. Which just goes to show why they keep trying :-| ........... As our border force has to catch them every time whilst the illegals only need to get lucky once *-) ........ Because once they're here they've hit the taxpayer funded jackpot *-) ........... Gordon Bennet! How would any alternative form of border controls change that? If Britain were a small impoverished country why would people want to come? As it is not, people want to come, and the game becomes catch the illegal entrant. In, or out of, the EU, that requires stringent control at our borders, and a government that is prepared to enforce that. The government creates the enforcement loopholes and blind spots through which some people may pass illegally, because it wants some immigration. So, some sneak in. They then disappear and become very difficult to detect, because unlike almost every developed country in the world, no-one I obliged to carry identification documents in the UK. It isn't the law that is at fault, it is that no-one in authority has the will to rigidly enforce it. Why? Go figure! As to the cost. Given a coastline (including islands) approaching 20,000 miles in length, plus the NI border, do you really think enforcing a totally impervious border would be any less costly? 1 You are starting to sound more like a Corbynite everyday Brian 8-) .......... 2 No doubt you would like totally open borders to? ;-) ......... 3 Perhaps once your little bit of East Sussex no longer uses English as their main language you'll have second thoughts? :D .......... Just askin >:-) ......... So, as usual no answer to my question, and no response to my points. 1 Show me where a "Corbynite" has made any of the points I made above. 2 What perverted field of reason leads you to that conclusion? 3 The problem for you is that it is HMG, of whichever political stripe, that controls the UK border, and all these dreadful migrants have been allowed in by both political parties. I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D But then, if the employers where you live hadn't wanted the migrants as workers, you wouldn't have them, would you? And if the people where you live had been prepared to do the work the migrants do, the employers wouldn't have wanted the migrants, would they? So the employers wouldn't have whispered in government's ear not to be too hard on immigration, would they? So you wouldn't have had so many frightening you, would you? So, in the final analysis, you're a victim of your local work ethic, and its consequences, who blames the presence of foreign workers on the EU, because that is where they came from, instead of identifying the real culprits, aren't you? Talk about chop logic! :-D It seems he got drunk earlier than usual today judging by the tripe and crass comments he's posted. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 1:56 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 11:22 AM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 7:56 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-14 7:27 PM 5 We can, and the fact that we sometimes fail to do so does not disprove that fact. It merely proves that our border staff miss them, or fail to apply the law. Which just goes to show why they keep trying :-| ........... As our border force has to catch them every time whilst the illegals only need to get lucky once *-) ........ Because once they're here they've hit the taxpayer funded jackpot *-) ........... Gordon Bennet! How would any alternative form of border controls change that? If Britain were a small impoverished country why would people want to come? As it is not, people want to come, and the game becomes catch the illegal entrant. In, or out of, the EU, that requires stringent control at our borders, and a government that is prepared to enforce that. The government creates the enforcement loopholes and blind spots through which some people may pass illegally, because it wants some immigration. So, some sneak in. They then disappear and become very difficult to detect, because unlike almost every developed country in the world, no-one I obliged to carry identification documents in the UK. It isn't the law that is at fault, it is that no-one in authority has the will to rigidly enforce it. Why? Go figure! As to the cost. Given a coastline (including islands) approaching 20,000 miles in length, plus the NI border, do you really think enforcing a totally impervious border would be any less costly? 1 You are starting to sound more like a Corbynite everyday Brian 8-) .......... 2 No doubt you would like totally open borders to? ;-) ......... 3 Perhaps once your little bit of East Sussex no longer uses English as their main language you'll have second thoughts? :D .......... Just askin >:-) ......... So, as usual no answer to my question, and no response to my points. 1 Show me where a "Corbynite" has made any of the points I made above. 2 What perverted field of reason leads you to that conclusion? 3 The problem for you is that it is HMG, of whichever political stripe, that controls the UK border, and all these dreadful migrants have been allowed in by both political parties. I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D But then, if the employers where you live hadn't wanted the migrants as workers, you wouldn't have them, would you? And if the people where you live had been prepared to do the work the migrants do, the employers wouldn't have wanted the migrants, would they? So the employers wouldn't have whispered in government's ear not to be too hard on immigration, would they? So you wouldn't have had so many frightening you, would you? So, in the final analysis, you're a victim of your local work ethic, and its consequences, who blames the presence of foreign workers on the EU, because that is where they came from, instead of identifying the real culprits, aren't you? Talk about chop logic! :-D I bet 50 years ago towns and cities in this fine land like Bradford , Birmingham , Luton etc said pretty much the same about there towns becoming minority white , not "a cat in hells chance" ... Well on the way though Brian , well on the way ... Thats not xenophobic by the way just reality ... Not leafy East Sussex reality admittedly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D When was the last time you went shopping in Boston market Brian? ;-) ........ Or in certain areas of London :-| ....... Your liberal mind is refusing to accept reality >:-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D When was the last time you went shopping in Boston market Brian? ;-) ........ Or in certain areas of London :-| ....... Your liberal mind is refusing to accept reality >:-) ...... For both you and Tweetie Pie, since when has Boston been a county? Sussex you said. Do you not read what you write, or don't you understand the difference between a county and a town? Gawd, this does get difficult! :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 6:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D When was the last time you went shopping in Boston market Brian? ;-) ........ Or in certain areas of London :-| ....... Your liberal mind is refusing to accept reality >:-) ...... For both you and Tweetie Pie, since when has Boston been a county? Sussex you said. Do you not read what you write, or don't you understand the difference between a county and a town? Gawd, this does get difficult! :-| Gawd you are getting petty Brian *-) ........ Perhaps you need to get into your POSH camper and get out and about in those area's of the UK that you don't think exist ;-) ........ Hint....... you may need to upgrade your camper security >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:40 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 6:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D When was the last time you went shopping in Boston market Brian? ;-) ........ Or in certain areas of London :-| ....... Your liberal mind is refusing to accept reality >:-) ...... For both you and Tweetie Pie, since when has Boston been a county? Sussex you said. Do you not read what you write, or don't you understand the difference between a county and a town? Gawd, this does get difficult! :-| Gawd you are getting petty Brian *-) ........ Perhaps you need to get into your POSH camper and get out and about in those area's of the UK that you don't think exist ;-) ........ Hint....... you may need to upgrade your camper security >:-) ....... Brian went to Bradford once , well to be fair it was Milton Keynes and he once saw an Asian fella ... On Eastenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-11-15 8:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:40 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 6:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D When was the last time you went shopping in Boston market Brian? ;-) ........ Or in certain areas of London :-| ....... Your liberal mind is refusing to accept reality >:-) ...... For both you and Tweetie Pie, since when has Boston been a county? Sussex you said. Do you not read what you write, or don't you understand the difference between a county and a town? Gawd, this does get difficult! :-| Gawd you are getting petty Brian *-) ........ Perhaps you need to get into your POSH camper and get out and about in those area's of the UK that you don't think exist ;-) ........ Hint....... you may need to upgrade your camper security >:-) ....... Brian went to Bradford once , well to be fair it was Milton Keynes and he once saw an Asian fella ... On Eastenders I doubt Brian's Liberal East Sussex idel has suffered much from mass migration *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-11-15 8:19 PM Birdbrain - 2019-11-15 8:07 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:40 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 6:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-11-15 6:31 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-11-15 4:43 PM I don't think there's a cat in hell's chance of Sussex, or any other county, becoming a county where English is a minority language. You are being afflicted by xenophobic hysteria! :-D When was the last time you went shopping in Boston market Brian? ;-) ........ Or in certain areas of London :-| ....... Your liberal mind is refusing to accept reality >:-) ...... For both you and Tweetie Pie, since when has Boston been a county? Sussex you said. Do you not read what you write, or don't you understand the difference between a county and a town? Gawd, this does get difficult! :-| Gawd you are getting petty Brian *-) ........ Perhaps you need to get into your POSH camper and get out and about in those area's of the UK that you don't think exist ;-) ........ Hint....... you may need to upgrade your camper security >:-) ....... Brian went to Bradford once , well to be fair it was Milton Keynes and he once saw an Asian fella ... On Eastenders I doubt Brian's Liberal East Sussex idel has suffered much from mass migration *-) ....... Still waiting for those "76 million Turks" to arrive and "Turkey to join EU" your lot LIED about. *-) https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-boris-johnson-falsely-claims-he-didnt-say-anything-about-turkey-in-the-referendum-campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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