FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 1:18 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 11:56 AM privately-owned homes in the country? Or perhaps you are unaware of the history and ownership of Balmoral? It would certainly appear so. So you know what belongs to her, and what belongs to us *-) You should enlighten us all because nobody else has been able to find out Balmoral is privately-owned and was purchased by Price Albert. It is not part of the Crown Estates. The properties owned by the Crown Estates are in the public domain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 1:06 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 11:56 AM John52 - 2019-12-25 11:53 AM 747 - 2019-12-24 3:58 PM The Scottish Government are increasingly coming under fire for failures and wasting money. They are in the Tory Brexiteer media you read. But you can see how much notice people up here take of that by the way they voted, So BoJo will continue to dig deep into your money to bribe Scotland to stay under his control. Doesn't want to go down in history as the PM who broke up the UK, and wants Faslane & Balmoral at any price to you. Perhaps you can explain what Balmoral has to do with Boris or with the UK Government? Do you think that if Scotland ever secedes it will expropriate all privately-owned homes in the country? Or perhaps you are unaware of the history and ownership of Balmoral? It would certainly appear so. As for Faslane, all that will happen is that we'll find a new base in England or Wales, of which there is no shortage, or expand the existing naval bases. The loser will be Scotland with the loss of hundreds of jobs both at the base and in indirect trades and industries that support the base with goods and services. As for Tory media perhaps you never read the Guardian, in which you'll find many articles about Scotland's finances? https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/15/independent-scotland-austerity-snp-ifs-institute-fiscal-studies So much nonsense there I don't know where to start Guardian being the Tory Media *-) Royal Family & Hangers On being to carry on at Balmoral like they do now if Scotland was an independent country. And as for finding a replacement for Faslane *-) WHY IS BOJO SHOWERING SCOTLAND WITH ENGLISH TAXPAYER'S MONEY IF ITS THAT EASY *-) (Edited to try and make it simpler) So much nonsense? This from a man who thinks that The Guardian is a Tory-supporting newspaper? Perhaps your knowledge of the Guardian's ownership is a poor as your knowledge of the status of Balmoral? You are claiming (it would appear) that if Scotland were to gain independence it would ban the Head of State of a friendly country from enjoying their privately-owned home in that country? Really? This from a country that will still rely heavily on its nearest and most important trading partner? There's only one person talking nonsense here and it's not me. There are many reasons why Scotland is subsidised by England, chief of which is the Barnett Formula. However, since Boris came to power how much extra funding has he allocated to Scotland alone? I say 'alone' because he has promised to increase funding to all the devolved nations, not just Scotland. His funding has nothing to do with Faslane or Balmoral, which really is utter nonsense. Surely you can understand why Scottish Devolution would create more problems than it would solve and make Scotland poorer? Then of course we'd have the huge problem of Scotland being in the EU and the possibility of a hard border between the two countries. That would be fun. Your reasoning is beyond nonsense, It's positively imbecilic and your baseless ranting about Balmoral appears to be no more than another avenue for your anti-monarchist vitriol. So instead of claiming that I'm writing nonsense try responding with facts? Will Scotland ban the Royal Family from using its own property in that country? What is to stop us from moving our submarines to another base south of the border? How much do you think this will cost Scotland in lost revenue and jobs? You accuse people of only reading 'Tory' media but when I show you a Guardian article you dismiss it as yet more Tory media. In one sentence there you show that you really are in a little world of your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 11:56 AM As for Tory media perhaps you never read the Guardian Given the other nonsense in your postings it appeared you were calling the Guardian Tory Media. :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM You are claiming (it would appear) that if Scotland were to gain independence it would ban the Head of State of a friendly country from enjoying their privately-owned home in that country? Really? This from a country that will still rely heavily on its nearest and most important trading partner? There's only one person talking nonsense here and it's not me. . If I had said that it would have been nonsense. But I didn't say any of that. You made it up. I said the Royal Family & Hangers On may not be able to carry on like they do now if Scotland were an independent country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 2:36 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 11:56 AM As for Tory media perhaps you never read the Guardian Given the other nonsense in your postings it appeared you were calling the Guardian Tory Media. :-S It would only appear that if read by someone who isn't too bright and failed to notice the quote to which I referred. Go back and read it slowly this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM There are many reasons why Scotland is subsidised by England, As many as there are members of the English Government who want to keep control of Scotland. The equivalent of Empire Building in the Civil Service where the bigger the department you run, the better your job and pay grade. You haven't given any others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 1:44 PM John52 - 2019-12-25 2:36 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 11:56 AM As for Tory media perhaps you never read the Guardian Given the other nonsense in your postings it appeared you were calling the Guardian Tory Media. :-S It would only appear that if read by someone who isn't too bright and failed to notice the quote to which I referred. Go back and read it slowly this time. I failed to notice the quotation marks yes. Where are they *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:22 PM The properties owned by the Crown Estates are in the public domain. That depends. We weren't allowed to see the paintings in Windsor Castle unless they were lent out to a museum ccompanied by note sying they were on loan from her. So they must have been hers. But when they caught fuire in her care we got the £30 million bill for restoring them. So they must have been ours. Now they are hers again as above *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 12:06 PM WHY IS BOJO SHOWERING SCOTLAND WITH ENGLISH TAXPAYER'S MONEY IF ITS THAT EASY *-) (Edited to try and make it simpler) You call me for not seeing your non-existent quotation marks when you didn't see this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM Then of course we'd have the huge problem of Scotland being in the EU and the possibility of a hard border between the two countries. . Yes YOU would. Wouldn't be much of a problem to use with open borders to the EU :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 2:40 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM You are claiming (it would appear) that if Scotland were to gain independence it would ban the Head of State of a friendly country from enjoying their privately-owned home in that country? Really? This from a country that will still rely heavily on its nearest and most important trading partner? There's only one person talking nonsense here and it's not me. . If I had said that it would have been nonsense. But I didn't say any of that. You made it up. I said the Royal Family & Hangers On may not be able to carry on like they do now if Scotland were an independent country. The Queen is the head of the Royal Family and the Head of State. So what exactly are you saying, as it's clear as mud? Are you suggesting that that an independent Scotland would ban the Royal Family from visiting Balmoral? Are you suggesting that they might allow the Queen as Head of State but not the rest of her family? Remember, this debate is about Balmoral and not how the Royal Family behaves, which is nothing to do with an independent Scotland. As Balmoral is privately-owned and nothing to do with the Government, why do you keep suggesting that Boris is giving more money to Scotland to make sure that the Queen can hang on to Balmoral? So once more, what does Balmoral have to do with anything? Unless, as I've already asked, you think that Scotland, if it secedes will expropriate Balmoral or ban members of a friendly neighbouring monarchy from using their own property. You are the one who, more than once, has stated that Boris is giving more money to Scotland to secure Faslane and to secure Balmoral. Why does he need to give more money to Scotland to secure someone's private home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM What is to stop us from moving our submarines to another base south of the border? I'm not setting myself up as an expert here. Just someone who can see the bleedin obvious. Like the secrecy provided by the Faslane location. And the obvious fact that if it wasn't very difficult they would have already done it - instead of going to such lengths to fight the peace camp there, and shower us with YOUR money to keep it in Faslane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 2:53 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM Then of course we'd have the huge problem of Scotland being in the EU and the possibility of a hard border between the two countries. . Yes YOU would. Wouldn't be much of a problem to use with open borders to the EU :D Even more nonsense that actually doesn't even make sense. Are you suggesting that if Scotland was in the EU and the rest of the UK wasn't that this won't create difficulties for both nations? We would still be one of Scotland's biggest trading partners. It's all academic anyway as Scotland will never leave the Union when England is out of the EU. The majority of Scots are too bright to know that it would be disastrous for their country. The UK leaving the EU has shone a new light on the independence debate. Would they adopt the Euro for instance, that utter debacle that has crippled other small nations? Why should we let them use Sterling? It's never going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 1:55 PM John52 - 2019-12-25 2:40 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM You are claiming (it would appear) that if Scotland were to gain independence it would ban the Head of State of a friendly country from enjoying their privately-owned home in that country? Really? This from a country that will still rely heavily on its nearest and most important trading partner? There's only one person talking nonsense here and it's not me. . If I had said that it would have been nonsense. But I didn't say any of that. You made it up. I said the Royal Family & Hangers On may not be able to carry on like they do now if Scotland were an independent country. The Queen is the head of the Royal Family and the Head of State. So what exactly are you saying, as it's clear as mud? Are you suggesting that that an independent Scotland would ban the Royal Family from visiting Balmoral? Are you suggesting that they might allow the Queen as Head of State but not the rest of her family? Remember, this debate is about Balmoral and not how the Royal Family behaves, which is nothing to do with an independent Scotland. As Balmoral is privately-owned and nothing to do with the Government, why do you keep suggesting that Boris is giving more money to Scotland to make sure that the Queen can hang on to Balmoral? So once more, what does Balmoral have to do with anything? Unless, as I've already asked, you think that Scotland, if it secedes will expropriate Balmoral or ban members of a friendly neighbouring monarchy from using their own property. You are the one who, more than once, has stated that Boris is giving more money to Scotland to secure Faslane and to secure Balmoral. Why does he need to give more money to Scotland to secure someone's private home? I was lawfully walking on 'public' land near Balmoral, (not Her Unelected Majesty's back garden which is bigger than Greater Manchester), and was accosted by her Gun Toting Thugs demanding to know who I was and what I was doing. I have never felt so intimidated in all my life. Would they get away with that in an Independent Scotland *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:03 PM It's all academic anyway as Scotland will never leave the Union when England is out of the EU. Probably True as BoJo will keep paying the bribes. By what Mad Hatter logic do you see Sterling as stronger than the Euro with the combined strength of 27 countries - despite its falls since the Brexit vote. I'll try again with the question you keep ignoring despite the repetition and capital letters. WHY IS BOJO SHOWERING SCOTLAND WITH ENGLISH TAXPAYER'S MONEY IF ITS THAT EASY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 2:57 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 12:47 PM What is to stop us from moving our submarines to another base south of the border? I'm not setting myself up as an expert here. Just someone who can see the bleedin obvious. Like the secrecy provided by the Faslane location. And the obvious fact that if it wasn't very difficult they would have already done it - instead of going to such lengths to fight the peace camp there, and shower us with YOUR money to keep it in Faslane. Well it's obvious that you're not an expert on most things. Faslane was chosen because of its nearer access to the North Atlantic and because it is a good thing to spread big-spending and job-creating enterprises to the devolved nations. And why should a sensible government waste millions and destroy thousands of local jobs because a few deluded pacifists stage protests? If however. Scotland does secede, which it won't anyway, we'd have no choice but to move our subs to another base or create a new one. Barrow in Furness might well be useful and it would mean lots of jobs for a town which has seen its ship-building industry reduced. The cost of this relocation would be peanuts compared to the money that we'd no longer have to spend propping up Scotland's economy. As for your constant gloating that I and other non-Scots are sending our money to prop up your country, I really couldn't care less. The thing about being in a union is that we help and support each other and if that means that if have to subsidise the other parts of the UK to a modest extent I'm very happy for a small portion of my taxes being spent so that you can enjoy all the civilised benefits that we enjoy in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 3:14 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:03 PM It's all academic anyway as Scotland will never leave the Union when England is out of the EU. Probably True as BoJo will keep paying the bribes. By what Mad Hatter logic do you see Sterling as stronger than the Euro with the combined strength of 27 countries - despite its falls since the Brexit vote. I'll try again with the question you keep ignoring despite the repetition and capital letters. WHY IS BOJO SHOWERING SCOTLAND WITH ENGLISH TAXPAYER'S MONEY IF ITS THAT EASY He's isn't just showering Scotland with money. He's promised a modest sum to all the devolved nations in order to stimulate their economies as he recognises that we're stronger together. The Euro has been a disaster for smaller nations, of which Scotland would be one. They no longer have the ability to devalue their currency when that would have been the obvious route for some of them. Just Google 'Failure of the Euro' and learn. Even better buy this book. https://www.amazon.com/EuroTragedy-Drama-Nine-Ashoka-Mody/dp/0199351384 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 3:05 PM I was lawfully walking on 'public' land near Balmoral, (not Her Unelected Majesty's back garden which is bigger than Greater Manchester), and was accosted by her Gun Toting Thugs demanding to know who I was and what I was doing. I have never felt so intimidated in all my life. Would they get away with that in an Independent Scotland *-) How awful, the residence of the Head of State has protection! Of course it won't be necessary in an independent Scotland as Islamist terrorists for example would never take advantage of unprotected senior officials! God forbid! But here you show the real hateful you. The Head of State's protection-personnel are 'gun-toting thugs'. If this was the country home of a president of a republic do you think that any Tom Dick or Jock would just be allowed to wander around? In an independent Scotland you appear to believe that there'd be no security system around the residences used by senior government figures. And what's the point of unarmed security officers? You may be right though. They wouldn't have any protection for the Scottish President as they'll have no money to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:36 PM John52 - 2019-12-25 3:05 PM I was lawfully walking on 'public' land near Balmoral, (not Her Unelected Majesty's back garden which is bigger than Greater Manchester), and was accosted by her Gun Toting Thugs demanding to know who I was and what I was doing. I have never felt so intimidated in all my life. Would they get away with that in an Independent Scotland *-) How awful, the residence of the Head of State has protection! Of course it won't be necessary in an independent Scotland as Islamist terrorists for example would never take advantage of unprotected senior officials! God forbid! But here you show the real hateful you. The Head of State's protection-personnel are 'gun-toting thugs'. If this was the country home of a president of a republic do you think that any Tom Dick or Jock would just be allowed to wander around? In an independent Scotland you appear to believe that there'd be no security system around the residences used by senior government figures. And what's the point of unarmed security officers? You may be right though. They wouldn't have any protection for the Scottish President as they'll have no money to pay for it. The Prime Minister of the Netherlands tows his caravan off to a campsite for his holidays, whilst Queen Beatrix rides a bike down to the supermarket to do her own shopping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:24 PM He's isn't just showering Scotland with money. He's promised a modest sum to all the devolved nations in order to stimulate their economies as he recognises that we're stronger together. Whilst cutting benefits and closing night shelters at a time of rising homelessness. Are we expected to believe this has nothing to do with him wanting their votes to keep his control over the UK *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 2:46 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 1:44 PM John52 - 2019-12-25 2:36 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 11:56 AM As for Tory media perhaps you never read the Guardian Given the other nonsense in your postings it appeared you were calling the Guardian Tory Media. :-S It would only appear that if read by someone who isn't too bright and failed to notice the quote to which I referred. Go back and read it slowly this time. I failed to notice the quotation marks yes. Where are they *-) It didn't need quotation marks. You said to Pelmetman: 'They are in the Tory Brexiteer media you read.' This implied that only Tory media criticises Scotland's economic failures. I replied to the quote where you said that and, as part of my reply, I said: 'As for Tory media perhaps you never read the Guardian,....' I then posted a link in which a non-Tory medium reports on Scotland's failures. Anyone of even just average intelligence would have understood my point. In future though if I respond to you I'll try to explain it in terms that someone who isn't very bright can fathom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:36 PM do you think that any Tom Dick or Jock would just be allowed to wander around? . Isn't that what normally happens on 'public' land *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 3:45 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:24 PM He's isn't just showering Scotland with money. He's promised a modest sum to all the devolved nations in order to stimulate their economies as he recognises that we're stronger together. Whilst cutting benefits and closing night shelters at a time of rising homelessness. Are we expected to believe this has nothing to do with him wanting their votes to keep his control over the UK *-) Haha, he doesn't need Scotland's votes to keep control of the UK. Didn't you notice the results of the recent election? You are funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 John52 - 2019-12-25 3:48 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:36 PM do you think that any Tom Dick or Jock would just be allowed to wander around? . Isn't that what normally happens on 'public' land *-) No of course not. Are you really so dim? Does this mean that if security services spot a group of Asian men carrying bags on public land that abuts a high security area that they shouldn't be allowed to check them out? It might be public land but if it's next to a high-value target then I would want them to to check everyone wandering close to the perimeter. You are odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 25, 2019 Share Posted December 25, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:54 PM John52 - 2019-12-25 3:48 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-12-25 2:36 PM do you think that any Tom Dick or Jock would just be allowed to wander around? . Isn't that what normally happens on 'public' land *-) No of course not. Are you really so dim? Does this mean that if security services spot a group of Asian men carrying bags on public land that abuts a high security area that they shouldn't be allowed to check them out? It might be public land but if it's next to a high-value target then I would want them to to check everyone wandering close to the perimeter. You are odd. I'm not a group of Asian Men, I wasn't carrying bags, and you didn't see how they went about it. >:-) The point is that UK citizens don't get a choice of whether to have the Royal Family & Hangers On forced on to them whether they want them or not. In an Independent Scotland they might have real democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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