Coronavirus for the Elderly Motorhomer

[colin]

gdf - 2020-03-09 2:34 PM

 

"The reasons why they are not saying that are predominently economic and political rather than epidemiological - for example travel insurance companies would then face many more claims for cancellation"

 

Claims that would NOT be paid. After just renewing my travel insurance last week I was horrified to find that it stated that there would be NO payout for cancellation even if Government said don't travel. I then checked lots of other companies and for most of them they do not cover this situation UNLESS you have TAKEN OUT additional cover.

 

If you read this page there is a chart covering what 16 companies policies are about this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/02/coronavirus-travel-help-and-your-rights/#insurers

[Hans]

The more info the better. Sample taking at your home. You need a table and corridor space. They come whit two persons. They take on protective clothing in the corridor. They disinfect the table. They take two samples from nose and throat, By cotton sticks. They leave to the corridor and drop their clothing in garbage bag. And leave. You have to remove the bag. They transmit the result and follow up everyday if infected.

[StuartO]

gdf - 2020-03-09 2:33 PM .... [insurance] Claims that would NOT be paid. After just renewing my travel insurance last week I was horrified to find that it stated that there would be NO payout for cancellation even if Government said don't travel. I then checked lots of other companies and for most of them they do not cover this situation UNLESS you have TAKEN OUT additional cover.

 

Travel policies vary considerably but mine (with a Nationwide Bank Account) does pay out for cancellation if the FCO advises either no travel at all or advises against non-essential travel to your destination. No doubt the next policy revision will change that!

[Hans]

According the WHO Italy has the Most Eldery in europe. Best health care is france and italy.

[Bulletguy]

StuartO - 2020-03-09 9:35 AM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-09 8:42 AM..... I just think there is too much alarmism being spread faster than the virus.

 

For what it's worth, I think it's still being underestimated and the Government are failing to grasp the nettle.

 

For example if we really want to slow the outbreak down, the FCO advice should now be to avoid all non-essential travel anywhere outside UK. The reasons why they are not saying that are predominently economic and political rather than epidemiological - for example travel insurance companies would then face many more claims for cancellation and holiday businesses would feel the pain - but at least we'd be importing less coronavirus cases. We need to keep freight moving of course to safegaurd food supplies but holiday travel could usefully stop altogether during the outbreak. Most business travel could stop too - indeed many organisations (including the FCO) are already cutting down or banning international travel by their own staff, hence the big drop off in airline bookings and the cancellation of lots of flights.

I agree Stuart but there's always been this flippant attitude of "we're British - carry on regardless", though i think the loo roll issue is just oh so typically British and reflects our bonkers mentality! I could understand it more if supermarket customers had been fighting over boxes of Andrex tissues or LemSips, but no, Brits go off on a purge over loo rolls instead! *-)

 

The Italian government by comparison has taken the matter much more seriously and put the entire Lombardy region into total lockdown.....so anyone planning a trip to Milan won't even be allowed in!

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/03/08/forget-travels-to-milan-venice-northern-italy-coronavirus-quarantine/

[jumpstart]

Bulletguy - 2020-03-09 4:45 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-03-09 9:35 AM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-09 8:42 AM..... I just think there is too much alarmism being spread faster than the virus.

 

For what it's worth, I think it's still being underestimated and the Government are failing to grasp the nettle.

 

For example if we really want to slow the outbreak down, the FCO advice should now be to avoid all non-essential travel anywhere outside UK. The reasons why they are not saying that are predominently economic and political rather than epidemiological - for example travel insurance companies would then face many more claims for cancellation and holiday businesses would feel the pain - but at least we'd be importing less coronavirus cases. We need to keep freight moving of course to safegaurd food supplies but holiday travel could usefully stop altogether during the outbreak. Most business travel could stop too - indeed many organisations (including the FCO) are already cutting down or banning international travel by their own staff, hence the big drop off in airline bookings and the cancellation of lots of flights.

I agree Stuart but there's always been this flippant attitude of "we're British - carry on regardless", though i think the loo roll issue is just oh so typically British and reflects our bonkers mentality! I could understand it more if supermarket customers had been fighting over boxes of Andrex tissues or LemSips, but no, Brits go off on a purge over loo rolls instead! *-)

 

The Italian government by comparison has taken the matter much more seriously and put the entire Lombardy region into total lockdown.....so anyone planning a trip to Milan won't even be allowed in!

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/03/08/forget-travels-to-milan-venice-northern-italy-coronavirus-quarantine/

 

Our Australian friends are fighting over them too. When I fly to Mallorca the plane should be fairly empty then.

[Rayjsj]

jumpstart - 2020-03-09 4:51 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-03-09 4:45 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-03-09 9:35 AM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-09 8:42 AM..... I just think there is too much alarmism being spread faster than the virus.

 

For what it's worth, I think it's still being underestimated and the Government are failing to grasp the nettle.

 

For example if we really want to slow the outbreak down, the FCO advice should now be to avoid all non-essential travel anywhere outside UK. The reasons why they are not saying that are predominently economic and political rather than epidemiological - for example travel insurance companies would then face many more claims for cancellation and holiday businesses would feel the pain - but at least we'd be importing less coronavirus cases. We need to keep freight moving of course to safegaurd food supplies but holiday travel could usefully stop altogether during the outbreak. Most business travel could stop too - indeed many organisations (including the FCO) are already cutting down or banning international travel by their own staff, hence the big drop off in airline bookings and the cancellation of lots of flights.

I agree Stuart but there's always been this flippant attitude of "we're British - carry on regardless", though i think the loo roll issue is just oh so typically British and reflects our bonkers mentality! I could understand it more if supermarket customers had been fighting over boxes of Andrex tissues or LemSips, but no, Brits go off on a purge over loo rolls instead! *-)

 

The Italian government by comparison has taken the matter much more seriously and put the entire Lombardy region into total lockdown.....so anyone planning a trip to Milan won't even be allowed in!

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/03/08/forget-travels-to-milan-venice-northern-italy-coronavirus-quarantine/

 

Our Australian friends are fighting over them too. When I fly to Mallorca the plane should be fairly empty then.

Possibly....if it flies, they dont like flying them empty for some reason ?

Not made any plans away in the van yet, perhaps a CL somewhere nice in the UK, using our own facilities (which we dont usually do.....but at least I will know they are REALLY clean. ) Wear gloves for getting water/connecting EHU/ etc.,Already have food aboard, LL milk etc., no eating out, no shopping, Home shopping is delivered to door.

Just sensible precautions when you are both over 70 with pre existing conditions. Keep relatively calm and carry on carefully.

 

Cruise Ships used to look very inviting.....not any more.

I suppose they could be converted into homes for Refugees or the homeless ?

 

 

 

 

[jumpstart]

Rayjsj - 2020-03-09 5:22 PM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-09 4:51 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2020-03-09 4:45 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-03-09 9:35 AM

 

jumpstart - 2020-03-09 8:42 AM..... I just think there is too much alarmism being spread faster than the virus.

 

For what it's worth, I think it's still being underestimated and the Government are failing to grasp the nettle.

 

For example if we really want to slow the outbreak down, the FCO advice should now be to avoid all non-essential travel anywhere outside UK. The reasons why they are not saying that are predominently economic and political rather than epidemiological - for example travel insurance companies would then face many more claims for cancellation and holiday businesses would feel the pain - but at least we'd be importing less coronavirus cases. We need to keep freight moving of course to safegaurd food supplies but holiday travel could usefully stop altogether during the outbreak. Most business travel could stop too - indeed many organisations (including the FCO) are already cutting down or banning international travel by their own staff, hence the big drop off in airline bookings and the cancellation of lots of flights.

I agree Stuart but there's always been this flippant attitude of "we're British - carry on regardless", though i think the loo roll issue is just oh so typically British and reflects our bonkers mentality! I could understand it more if supermarket customers had been fighting over boxes of Andrex tissues or LemSips, but no, Brits go off on a purge over loo rolls instead! *-)

 

The Italian government by comparison has taken the matter much more seriously and put the entire Lombardy region into total lockdown.....so anyone planning a trip to Milan won't even be allowed in!

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tamarathiessen/2020/03/08/forget-travels-to-milan-venice-northern-italy-coronavirus-quarantine/

 

Our Australian friends are fighting over them too. When I fly to Mallorca the plane should be fairly empty then.

Possibly....if it flies, they dont like flying them empty for some reason ?

Not made any plans away in the van yet, perhaps a CL somewhere nice in the UK, using our own facilities (which we dont usually do.....but at least I will know they are REALLY clean. ) Wear gloves for getting water/connecting EHU/ etc.,Already have food aboard, LL milk etc., no eating out, no shopping, Home shopping is delivered to door.

Just sensible precautions when you are both over 70 with pre existing conditions. Keep relatively calm and carry on carefully.

 

Sounds like a good plan. I was going to be selling my house and living in the van throughout the summer in the uk, but cv might affect the housing market .

[StuartO]

The Government Plan to deal with the coronavirus outbreak has moved on this morning, will be (in about 10-14 days time) to encourage everyone who experiences symptoms of a respiratory infection (which may not be coronavirus but we should assume it is, self-isolate to avoid giving the virus to others.

 

No specific advice has been issued for elderly people, who need to consider when to self-isolate to avoid catching the virus but clear it should start on or before the above transition date, so within the next week or so, depending on where you are in the Country. If there are already cases in your local area you should perhaps be starting to self-isolate already. And if you haven't managed to build up a stock of groceries to feed yourself in self-isolation, you should should either get your younger relatives to get food for you or order it on line. I have still been able to order on line from Sainsburys this morning, for delivery tomorrow. Note that the packaging in which your food is delivered may be carrying coronavirus so you should handle it wearing gloves and wipe it down with a cloth soaked in diluted bleach before you put it in your cupboard.

 

Bleach kills coronavirus while alcohol-based hand sanitizer apparently doesn't. Alternatively, you could simply leave the freshly-delivered food standing untouched for 24 hours,which would also achive kill off any virus. The criticism of people for panic buying should not ofcourse inhibit older people from building up a stock of food in order to self-isolate because there is no other wayto avoid getting infected as the epidemic really gets going in UK, which now seems to be inevitable.

 

There was plenty of food on the shelves in both Aldi and Morrisons when we went there this morning. You may need to self-isolate for a month or two as the prevalence of coronvirus in the UK population builds up and peaks, which is now expected to happen very quickly.

 

FCO advice to avoid non-essential travel to all of Italy has just caught up with the fact that the whole country is now in lockdown, so as usual it's too little and too late. In my opionion elderly people should now be avoiding international travel altogether.

[slowdriver]

StuartO - 2020-03-10 1:14 PM

 

Bleach kills coronavirus while alcohol-based hand sanitizer apparently doesn't. .

 

Bleach in the correct concentration will kill Coronavirus. However I am sure that alcohol-based sanitizer does to, as long as it is more than 60% alcohol. I'd be interested in the source that suggests that it does not if you have it to hand.

 

Everything I have read indicates that alcohol based scrubs do work. You might want to take a look at this article from the Cochrane Library, a major resource used by clinicians and medical researchers for professional, review studies. It evaluated fourteen separate reports on the effectiveness of different types of hand antisepsis from the professional literature.

 

https://www.journalslibrary.nihr.ac.uk/downloads/other-nihr-research/cochrane-programme-grants/Surgical-hand-antisepsis-to-reduce-surgical-site-infection.pdf

 

By all means read it all but the pertinent passage evaluating alcohol based surgical hand antisepsis is:-

 

"Alcohol

Alcohols have little or no residual effect, and the concentration rather than the type of alcohol is thought to be most important in determining its effectiveness (Larson 1995). Alcohol rubs are usually available in preparations of 60% to 90% strength and are effective against a wide range of gram-positive and gram negative bacteria, mycobacterium tuberculosis, and many fungi and viruses. The three main alcohols used are ethanol, isopropanol and n-propanol, and some rubs may contain a mixture of these. Compared with other common antiseptic products, alcohol is associated with the most rapid and greatest reduction in microbial counts (Lowbury 1974a), but it does not remove surface dirt as it does not contain surfactants or have a foaming action (Hobson 1998). Alcohol-based solutions usually (but not always) contain

additional active ingredients to combine the rapid bacteriocidal effect of alcohol with more persistent chemical activity."

 

So basically alcohol good at killing bacteria and (many) viruses, but doesn't clean your hands. For that soap and water do the job. It is also the case that some of the clean-room cleaning products are typically isopropyl alcohol based.

 

The relevant World Health Organisation page here, also recommends alcohol based rubs as a means to kill viruses.

 

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public

 

and encourages you to :-

"Wash your hands frequently.

Regularly and thoroughly clean your hands with an alcohol-based hand rub or wash them with soap and water.

Why? Washing your hands with soap and water or using alcohol-based hand rub kills viruses that may be on your hands."

 

Soap and water for cleaning hands, supplemented by an alcohol 60% hand gel will do for your hands and bleach or bleach based kitchen spray cleaners will do the job on most surfaces.

Just don't try slapping bleach on all over to cure your coronavirus infection, as some poor ill-informed people must be doing since the World Health Organisation include it in the "Myths" section of their excellent site here:

https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/advice-for-public/myth-busters

 

If they have been "slapping it on all over" maybe they had been watching too many reruns of 60's TV ads. Brut may have many virtues as outlined by Henry and Barry Sheene here

 

 

Killing Coronavirus is not one of them.

 

Killing you love life - definitely, I know from bitter personal experience (circa 1968).

 

 

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

StuartO - 2020-03-10 1:14 PM

The criticism of people for panic buying should not of course inhibit older people from building up a stock of food in order to self-isolate because there is no other way to avoid getting infected as the epidemic really gets going in UK, which now seems to be inevitable.

 

There was plenty of food on the shelves in both Aldi and Morrisons when we went there this morning. You may need to self-isolate for a month or two as the prevalence of coronvirus in the UK population builds up and peaks, which is now expected to happen very quickly.

 

FCO advice to avoid non-essential travel to all of Italy has just caught up with the fact that the whole country is now in lockdown, so as usual it's too little and too late. In my opinion elderly people should now be avoiding international travel altogether.

A good alternative option to the weekly supermarket shop is online ordering. Due to current circumstances i've been using both Morrisons and Iceland which i found to be really good. You need a minimum spend of £35 and the cheapest delivery slot for Morrisons is £1.50 (most folk would use that amount in fuel unless they live on the doorstep). Iceland make no delivery charge at all and deliver the following day (or any day you choose). Asda and Tesco also do online grocery delivery.

[Brian Kirby]

Robinhood - 2020-03-08 12:41 PM

 

The website is

 

https://www.marketw-atch.com/story/coronavirus-fatality-rates-vary-wildly-depending-on-age-gender-and-medical-history-some-patients-fare-much-worse-than-others-2020-02-26

 

(without the first hyphen)

 

Click on it, then when it fails, remove the hyphen.

 

Methinks the swear-filter is at play..... ;-)

Ta! :-D

[Billggski]

Just had our weekly shop delivered by Tesco, driver said it was mad yesterday, but calmed down now.

Plenty of loo rolls, handwash and surface cleaner in the warehouses, just needed to keep the stores stocked.

Folk are panic buying because others are....

[BruceM]

For those interested in the numbers and locations this dashboard has been launched by the UK goverment. Zoom in to the map for greater locational granularity.

 

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14

[StuartO]

News this morning that a Government Minister has been ill with coronavirus, now self-isolating at home and worried about her 81 yr old mother who lives with her and has a cough. This early in the epidemic her old mum might even get a hospital intensive care bed and a ventilaltor if she gets seriously ill, although as the number of cases rises, that would become less and less likely.

 

There was also a Government announcement about elderly and vulnerable people needing to be isolated to protect themselves but it was about how care homes should plan to protect their residents rather than those in the community at large. No special measures of support have been announced, just suggestions for how care home management might want to plan ahead.

 

We've been lucky so far that there are no cases near us here on the Norfolk/Suffolk border but of course by the time cases are reported they will have been spreading the virus for several days, so we're thinking of starting our self-isolation. I'm pretty bored already and I'm ordering stuff we don't really need on Amazon to pass the time!

[Brian Kirby]

BruceM - 2020-03-10 7:01 PM

 

For those interested in the numbers and locations this dashboard has been launched by the UK goverment. Zoom in to the map for greater locational granularity.

 

https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/f94c3c90da5b4e9f9a0b19484dd4bb14

Thanks Bruce. Useful.

[gdf]

'If you read this page there is a chart covering what 16 companies policies are about this.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2020/02/coronavirus-travel-help-and-your-rights/#insurers'

 

Don't want to start an argument but that page contradicts Page 37 of Admiral's Policy Booklet which says NOT covered.

 

People need to read their documents carefully and not rely on what a third party website says.

 

 

[StuartO]

We had a salutory experience attempting to claim for cancellation of an expensive cruise recently - which was going where the FCO had advised against non-essential travel, which the policy wording appeared to allow a cancellation claim for. But the insurer (UK Insurance Ltd, part of Direct Line, underwriting for our Nationwide Bank Account Policy) refused the claim because a) Shanghai isn't part of Mainland China so wasn't covered by the FCO advice, b) The policy only covered for FCO advice against all travel (which the policy wording specifically said it did and c) even if those reasons weren't valid, they would only pay "pro rata" for the one port which would have to be by-passed - when the policy said nothing at all about only part-paying. When I rang them to make the claim the call taker conducted a short unsympathetic interview which was clearly aimed at finding reason to reject the claim and then promptly did so for the above completely spurious reasons.

 

Fortunately the cruise line, which had rejected my request for cancellation because they weren't acting on the FCO advice, suddenly and for unexplained reasons changed their mind and after we had decided to take the hit and not travel, gave us a full refund. It might have had something to do with me citing the Package Travel Regulations 2018 which are a marvellous bit of consumer protection. And UK Insurance Ltd also later changed their mind, agreeing to pay other cancellation expenses, after Nationwide apparently found out what they were up to and told them to do so.

 

But I'm left with profound mistrust of UK Insurance Ltd (and therefore Direct Line, their parent company) who will clearly call black is white to reject a claim if they can get away with it. Check your policy before you buy and even then expect a struggle to get a big claim settled.

[Will86]

And we still ignore it all … and … we don't over buy … its wasteful and what for this will go on for years so its not possible to store like the warehouses do. As said we are 90 ish and probably the first to go … so what … we've had fun and done all we wanted.

 

Someone said then why do I read it … because its life and anything that surrounds me I find interesting like living through a war it had its interesting side when you study how people behave in given situations when the posh ladies of the village become prostitutes for the passing military. There's not a lot that I've missed !

 

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

StuartO - 2020-03-11 10:08 AM

 

News this morning that a Government Minister has been ill with coronavirus, now self-isolating at home and worried about her 81 yr old mother who lives with her and has a cough. This early in the epidemic her old mum might even get a hospital intensive care bed and a ventilaltor if she gets seriously ill, although as the number of cases rises, that would become less and less likely.

 

There was also a Government announcement about elderly and vulnerable people needing to be isolated to protect themselves but it was about how care homes should plan to protect their residents rather than those in the community at large. No special measures of support have been announced, just suggestions for how care home management might want to plan ahead.

 

We've been lucky so far that there are no cases near us here on the Norfolk/Suffolk border but of course by the time cases are reported they will have been spreading the virus for several days, so we're thinking of starting our self-isolation. I'm pretty bored already and I'm ordering stuff we don't really need on Amazon to pass the time!

Rachael Maskell MP now gone into self isolation after she'd been in a meeting with Nadine Dorries whose tested positive.

 

https://tinyurl.com/qwxsk9b

 

Also a 53 year old British lady has died in Bali after contracting the virus, the first death in the country linked to Covid-19.

 

https://tinyurl.com/w5yktep

 

A good point raised on a tv programme this morning i'd not thought about......the use of touch screens which are everywhere. ATM machines, supermarket self check outs, credit/debit card pads, hospital and GP surgery booking in points etc.

[colin]

ITN where at our local town today due to Nasty Nadine.

[Billggski]

All toilet roll shelves completely full at my local Morrisons!

Also hand sanitiser and surface cleaner available.

 

[Bulletguy]

Billggski - 2020-03-11 1:15 PM

 

All toilet roll shelves completely full at my local Morrisons!

Also hand sanitiser and surface cleaner available.

Tell that to the low lifes who ripped a hand sanitiser dispenser from a hospital cancer ward. :-(

 

People have even been filling their own bottles from hospital dispensers. Some folk have no moral compass.

 

https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/10/coronavirus-hand-sanitiser-thieves-target-hospital-cancer-ward-12375533/

[jumpstart]

Rather surprisingly my local surgery has just phoned to ask if I wanted a flu jab tomorrow. I said was it actually relevant at the moment. They said yes many people will get flu even if it’s not Coronavirus so was important to get the jab.

[colin]

jumpstart - 2020-03-11 4:13 PM

 

Rather surprisingly my local surgery has just phoned to ask if I wanted a flu jab tomorrow. I said was it actually relevant at the moment. They said yes many people will get flu even if it’s not Coronavirus so was important to get the jab.

 

That's very odd, the flu season is well past the peak, few people are dying from it at the moment.