BruceM Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 I hesitate to add a comment to what appears to have become a Chatterbox thread (Derek please take note - perhaps time to move it?) but feel it’s necessary to correct one often quoted inaccuracy. On average, countries within the European Union each export approx 6% of their exports to the UK. The UK exports approx 47% of its exports to the EU, and that’s ignoring the UK’s invisible exports such as our jewel in the crown – financial services. That is what is at risk. There are no credible economic commentators who dispute that in a no deal scenario the UK will come off the worst. More to the point though, the rest of the world has now moved on and that includes the nations that comprise the EU. Although our popular press continues to stoke the fires, and although it’s recognised that there will be a ‘financial shock’ of a no deal, the markets and the EU have moved on to more important issues. To put it simply, as a small country we’re really not that important to the world economy anymore. I’d suggest that anyone with a solely UK focus just sits back, watches how it all unwinds, and take commercial advantage where they can rather than banging on about the same old dogmatic UK centric stuff, stuff over which they have absolutely no influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 John52 - 2020-12-12 3:51 PM david lloyd - 2020-12-12 12:00 PM far from it being a case of the UK being worse off by the decision to leave the EU there are 27 other countries worrying considerably about how much worse off they are going to be. David So why has the pound fallen against the Euro? And UK shares under performed the rest of the developed world? ‘Worse off’ comes in many forms not just financial values. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 colin - 2020-12-12 3:49 PM david lloyd - 2020-12-12 1:51 PM colin - 2020-12-12 12:54 PM david lloyd - 2020-12-12 12:00 PM Yes, so the ‘benefits’ of being able to do what you want when you want how you want will not be there but not everyone spends six months through winter in Spain. For many, their lives will continue as normal and far from it being a case of the UK being worse off by the decision to leave the EU there are 27 other countries worrying considerably about how much worse off they are going to be. Yet there doesn’t seem to be much appetite at this late stage to accept the democratic vote of another member country and try to resolve the issues to minimise the long term issues it raises. I still say there will be minor changes to the way in which Brexit affects UK (and the few EU Motorhomes’s who visit the UK) Motorhomes but they are simply adjustments to the past ‘free and easy’ practices we have become accustomed to. If you really want to spend time in Europe then that will still be possible. David With regard to the OP, you cannot find any benefit to the MH community then? Apart from that your post is purely political and very debatable. And debate is not something to be encouraged on this forum? I simply put forward the idea that not everything is being taken away. It’s referred to, in polite conversation, as having another point of view. David The OP asked about benefits for the MH community, and that's what this section of the forum is about. Politics around other parts of Brexit which are not related to Motorhomes are for chatter box, it's what is known as respecting the forum rules. I believe, if you re-read everything I have posted above, my input has revolved around the central issue raised by the OP and I trust they are not in the least offended by anything written there. If, as you say, my posts are contrary to the rules of the forum then I also apologise for that and would be more than happy for the Moderator to either move them to Chatterbox or remove them entirely. I feel I have simply recorded my own view of the topic but certainly do not wish to cause you any personal dissatisfaction. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 BruceM - 2020-12-12 5:28 PM I hesitate to add a comment to what appears to have become a Chatterbox thread (Derek please take note - perhaps time to move it?) but feel it’s necessary to correct one often quoted inaccuracy. On average, countries within the European Union each export approx 6% of their exports to the UK. The UK exports approx 47% of its exports to the EU, and that’s ignoring the UK’s invisible exports such as our jewel in the crown – financial services. That is what is at risk. There are no credible economic commentators who dispute that in a no deal scenario the UK will come off the worst. More to the point though, the rest of the world has now moved on and that includes the nations that comprise the EU. Although our popular press continues to stoke the fires, and although it’s recognised that there will be a ‘financial shock’ of a no deal, the markets and the EU have moved on to more important issues. To put it simply, as a small country we’re really not that important to the world economy anymore. I’d suggest that anyone with a solely UK focus just sits back, watches how it all unwinds, and take commercial advantage where they can rather than banging on about the same old dogmatic UK centric stuff, stuff over which they have absolutely no influence. You hesitate to comment ;-) ......and then spin the UK-EU exports (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ So answer this...... seeing as just 5% of UK businesses export to the EU :-| ........ Why should the other 95% pick up their red tape tab? *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 david lloyd - 2020-12-12 5:30 PM John52 - 2020-12-12 3:51 PM david lloyd - 2020-12-12 12:00 PM far from it being a case of the UK being worse off by the decision to leave the EU there are 27 other countries worrying considerably about how much worse off they are going to be. David So why has the pound fallen against the Euro? And UK shares under performed the rest of the developed world? ‘Worse off’ comes in many forms not just financial values. David Better off out.......is priceless B-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 BruceM - 2020-12-12 5:28 PM I hesitate to add a comment to what appears to have become a Chatterbox thread (Derek please take note - perhaps time to move it?) ... I suspect that James (who initiated this thread) is getting as much enjoyment as I am out of how it’s progressing. ;-) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-12-12 5:53 PM BruceM - 2020-12-12 5:28 PM I hesitate to add a comment to what appears to have become a Chatterbox thread (Derek please take note - perhaps time to move it?) but feel it’s necessary to correct one often quoted inaccuracy. On average, countries within the European Union each export approx 6% of their exports to the UK. The UK exports approx 47% of its exports to the EU, and that’s ignoring the UK’s invisible exports such as our jewel in the crown – financial services. That is what is at risk. There are no credible economic commentators who dispute that in a no deal scenario the UK will come off the worst. More to the point though, the rest of the world has now moved on and that includes the nations that comprise the EU. Although our popular press continues to stoke the fires, and although it’s recognised that there will be a ‘financial shock’ of a no deal, the markets and the EU have moved on to more important issues. To put it simply, as a small country we’re really not that important to the world economy anymore. I’d suggest that anyone with a solely UK focus just sits back, watches how it all unwinds, and take commercial advantage where they can rather than banging on about the same old dogmatic UK centric stuff, stuff over which they have absolutely no influence. You hesitate to comment ;-) ......and then spin the UK-EU exports (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ So answer this...... seeing as just 5% of UK businesses export to the EU :-| ........ Why should the other 95% pick up their red tape tab? *-) .......... What a ridiculous comment it’s cos the 95% include window cleaners and other 1 man bands. The 5 % employ thousands of people between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 peterjl - 2020-12-12 6:31 PM pelmetman - 2020-12-12 5:53 PM BruceM - 2020-12-12 5:28 PM I hesitate to add a comment to what appears to have become a Chatterbox thread (Derek please take note - perhaps time to move it?) but feel it’s necessary to correct one often quoted inaccuracy. On average, countries within the European Union each export approx 6% of their exports to the UK. The UK exports approx 47% of its exports to the EU, and that’s ignoring the UK’s invisible exports such as our jewel in the crown – financial services. That is what is at risk. There are no credible economic commentators who dispute that in a no deal scenario the UK will come off the worst. More to the point though, the rest of the world has now moved on and that includes the nations that comprise the EU. Although our popular press continues to stoke the fires, and although it’s recognised that there will be a ‘financial shock’ of a no deal, the markets and the EU have moved on to more important issues. To put it simply, as a small country we’re really not that important to the world economy anymore. I’d suggest that anyone with a solely UK focus just sits back, watches how it all unwinds, and take commercial advantage where they can rather than banging on about the same old dogmatic UK centric stuff, stuff over which they have absolutely no influence. You hesitate to comment ;-) ......and then spin the UK-EU exports (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ So answer this...... seeing as just 5% of UK businesses export to the EU :-| ........ Why should the other 95% pick up their red tape tab? *-) .......... What a ridiculous comment it’s cos the 95% include window cleaners and other 1 man bands. The 5 % employ thousands of people between them. What a ridiculous assertion ;-) ......... Even this 1 man band managed to export to non EU countries without problems :D ........ The most forms I had to fill in was when I exported a Pouffe to Jersey 8-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 peterjl - 2020-12-12 6:31 PM pelmetman - 2020-12-12 5:53 PM BruceM - 2020-12-12 5:28 PM I hesitate to add a comment to what appears to have become a Chatterbox thread (Derek please take note - perhaps time to move it?) but feel it’s necessary to correct one often quoted inaccuracy. On average, countries within the European Union each export approx 6% of their exports to the UK. The UK exports approx 47% of its exports to the EU, and that’s ignoring the UK’s invisible exports such as our jewel in the crown – financial services. That is what is at risk. There are no credible economic commentators who dispute that in a no deal scenario the UK will come off the worst. More to the point though, the rest of the world has now moved on and that includes the nations that comprise the EU. Although our popular press continues to stoke the fires, and although it’s recognised that there will be a ‘financial shock’ of a no deal, the markets and the EU have moved on to more important issues. To put it simply, as a small country we’re really not that important to the world economy anymore. I’d suggest that anyone with a solely UK focus just sits back, watches how it all unwinds, and take commercial advantage where they can rather than banging on about the same old dogmatic UK centric stuff, stuff over which they have absolutely no influence. You hesitate to comment ;-) ......and then spin the UK-EU exports (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ So answer this...... seeing as just 5% of UK businesses export to the EU :-| ........ Why should the other 95% pick up their red tape tab? *-) .......... What a ridiculous comment it’s cos the 95% include window cleaners and other 1 man bands. The 5 % employ thousands of people between them. Take no notice of Dave Pelmet. He is barking mad! He thinks he can come up here from the Chatterbox basement and spout the same rubbish that he has long since been schooled on by the CB regulars. for a kick of that figure of 5% he quotes is not correct and it does not include services. We are arguing about Fishing which is 0.1% of our economy yet services is 80% and nobody seems to care about that or or loss of the Single market and passporting rights etc. you also have to take into consideration frictionless trade. Right now, right his minute there is a ten mile queue into Calais for lorries bound for the UK due to Brexit stockpiling (I say right now, it was 20 minutes ago so it might be 15 miles now). Honda have had to stop production because of a lack of parts. This is just a taster. Never mind the benefits to motorhomers in Europe. Im not sure we will even get to Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Hi, if there is no deal I don’t think anything or anyone will be going anywhere across the channel because if the French fishermen are stopped from fishing in “British waters” all the ports will be blockaded. Regards David Fishing is a small part of the french economy but french fishermen are very militant as Mr Macron is very well aware of . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 Please remember this is not chatterbox and limit the number of posts you quote to one if at all possible otherwise the thread ends up as pages and pages of repeated text. Thanks all, Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curdle Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 David With regard to the OP, you cannot find any benefit to the MH community then? Apart from that your post is purely political and very debatable. How so political? I make no comment of the politics of Brexit. I have no problem with anything debatable, surely that it is the point of a discussion? I have learned that EU visitors to the UK are given a standard 180 days to visit. For Britons visiting EU it is only 90 days because we fall under Schengen rules. Apparently this could have been negotiated, but the French declared that the UK government had no appetite for such a discussion. This of course impacts over-winter motor-homers as well as property owners. It begs the question about whether the MH community should have been more proactive and vocal, engaging MP's to make such discussion a priority. Given the absolute antipathy of local UK government to Motor Homes generally, I think lack of EU access should be at the forefront of minds whether you support Brexit or not. Action over the attempts to impose massively increased taxes on new MH's has been successful, so why not the annual 90 day access? I do not know all the issues we face (and hope others do or at least contribute concerns) but surely encouraging thought and debate about future obstacles may lead to a more assertive approach on behalf of the MH community? Specifically, since you are opposed to my post, what have you done to think about improving MH access, anywhere in the UK or Europe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Dodd Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 curdle - 2020-12-11 10:35 PM I have been wondering what possible benefits may accrue to the larger MH community (including suppliers) post a no deal Brexit? BREXIT is nothing to do with what benefits may accrue to the MH community. It’s about the benefits that will accrue to the country and the whole UK population. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterjl Posted December 12, 2020 Share Posted December 12, 2020 P_Dodd - 2020-12-12 9:06 PM curdle - 2020-12-11 10:35 PM I have been wondering what possible benefits may accrue to the larger MH community (including suppliers) post a no deal Brexit? BREXIT is nothing to do with what benefits may accrue to the MH community. It’s about the benefits that will accrue to the country and the whole UK population. Ie no benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curdle Posted December 12, 2020 Author Share Posted December 12, 2020 P_Dodd - 2020-12-13 4:06 AM curdle - 2020-12-11 10:35 PM I have been wondering what possible benefits may accrue to the larger MH community (including suppliers) post a no deal Brexit? BREXIT is nothing to do with what benefits may accrue to the MH community. It’s about the benefits that will accrue to the country and the whole UK population. Ah, I rather imagined that the MH community were part of the whole UK population? Are there to be only officially endorsed parts of the community who will benefit and if so who and on what criteria, and importantly, who makes the decision about who is excluded? Of course, I realise most of us are bumbling old codgers who need to soak their false teeth in the evening and struggle to differentiate left from right socks in the morning (I buy cycling socks that label as such, thus avoiding confusion or planting my feet on the wrong side and tripping as I exit bed). Perhaps, as such we are less important than the rest of the UK population (excluding those self entitled MH people with selfish desires) and should thus accept our fate and sacrifice our aspirations in pursuit of the greater good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 curdle - 2020-12-12 8:57 PM David With regard to the OP, you cannot find any benefit to the MH community then? Apart from that your post is purely political and very debatable. How so political?........ I do not know all the issues we face (and hope others do or at least contribute concerns) but surely encouraging thought and debate about future obstacles may lead to a more assertive approach on behalf of the MH community? Specifically, since you are opposed to my post, what have you done to think about improving MH access, anywhere in the UK or Europe? Just to answer your last question (and assist barryd999 see my point of view) please search the forum for ‘First Municipal Aire’ using David lloyd as the author and ‘All Posts’ - it may just be illuminating to many newcomers asking the same question. Sorry I’m not sure how to post a link to help you go straight to it - perhaps Derek may do that? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P_Dodd Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 peterjl - 2020-12-12 9:19 PM P_Dodd - 2020-12-12 9:06 PM curdle - 2020-12-11 10:35 PM I have been wondering what possible benefits may accrue to the larger MH community (including suppliers) post a no deal Brexit? BREXIT is nothing to do with what benefits may accrue to the MH community. It’s about the benefits that will accrue to the country and the whole UK population. Ie no benefit. That’s a matter of opinion. I’ve spent many years working with Europeans and I know how they really feel about the UK and our people. If you are willing to dance to the tune of a foreign unelected government and contribute to their coffers, then that’s your lookout, but I’m not. I strongly believe that the EU are trying to do by political means what Napoleon Bonaparte and Adolf Hitler tried to do by force - dominate Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Hi at the moment some old vulnerable UK residents (lots of forum members in this group apparently) can get a covid jab because being out of the EEC the UK government can authorise these jabs. As I understand it all EEC members have to agree to its use before any one nation can. So you jump the queue to get immunised , nothing to do with deal or no deal ,just a small benefit of being out of the EEC be you a motorhomer or not. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I think not...... "As the chief executive of the MHRA swiftly pointed out, Mr Hancock was wrong to say that the UK could approve the vaccine early because it was no longer subject to EU rules. The MHRA’s decision was taken in accordance with the relevant EU legislation, which allows member states to grant temporary authorisation for a medicinal product in response to the spread of infectious diseases (among others). This legislation still applies to the UK until the end of the transition period. Any EU member state could have used the same provision of the legislation to approve the vaccine. They decided not to for political and technical reasons, not legal ones." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 davidmac - 2020-12-13 11:15 AM Hi at the moment some old vulnerable UK residents (lots of forum members in this group apparently) can get a covid jab because being out of the EEC the UK government can authorise these jabs. As I understand it all EEC members have to agree to its use before any one nation can. So you jump the queue to get immunised , nothing to do with deal or no deal ,just a small benefit of being out of the EEC be you a motorhomer or not. Regards David I am afraid that is fake news. It was actually because of an EU law that we could go ahead. There is no reason any country within the EU could not approve the vaccine for their own use. EU law would prevent them selling it or passing it on to other EU countries but there is nothing stopping Germany, France etc from approving the vaccine right now just like we have. This is the problem we now face with our Populist government. They can just full on lie to us with no accountability whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 I think I have found how to post the link regarding the thread ‘First Municipal Aire’ ..... no I haven’t - perhaps a moderator could do this for me? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 Hi I suppose I knew I would eventually get something wrong someday, sorry. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 david lloyd - 2020-12-13 12:08 PM I think I have found how to post the link regarding the thread ‘First Municipal Aire’ ..... no I haven’t - perhaps a moderator could do this for me? David Here you go David https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/First-Municipal-Aire/4457/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fesspark Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 non political comment from me, I am better off as I can now show as an ex commando the gratitude of the French,the way they treat us after thousands of our countrymen died for them . Remember orodor sur glane, what the germans did to the french thats The eu'! less we forget ,I have a bullet hole in my nearly new m,home,fired at by the French yellow coats,No moans at the Spanish,we can bypass France if we wish to go to Spain fesspark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 13, 2020 Share Posted December 13, 2020 david lloyd - 2020-12-13 9:05 AM curdle - 2020-12-12 8:57 PM David With regard to the OP, you cannot find any benefit to the MH community then? Apart from that your post is purely political and very debatable. How so political?........ I do not know all the issues we face (and hope others do or at least contribute concerns) but surely encouraging thought and debate about future obstacles may lead to a more assertive approach on behalf of the MH community? Specifically, since you are opposed to my post, what have you done to think about improving MH access, anywhere in the UK or Europe? Just to answer your last question (and assist barryd999 see my point of view) please search the forum for ‘First Municipal Aire’ using David lloyd as the author and ‘All Posts’ - it may just be illuminating to many newcomers asking the same question. Sorry I’m not sure how to post a link to help you go straight to it - perhaps Derek may do that? David edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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