BP shut down some petrol stations

[Bulletguy]

 

Progress eh?

[Tracker]

candapack - 2021-09-26 8:43 PM

 

Have to say Rich, sounds like you're not finding it easy to keep looking on the bright side.

 

(Hope you're keeping well, you were one of the first people I got advice from as a new motorhomer. Top tip was using a facecloth to get rid of most body moisture after a van shower, saves having wet bathtowels in the van.)

 

Cheers Chris, so I am not totally useless after all then!!

 

I have a pretty good life, mainly because I made the effort to make it so and I am always looking on the bright side of life but from time to time certain people p@@@ me off and a good rant helps!!!

 

This is supposed to be a FORUM for the exchange of USEFUL information and friendly banter but in recent years the same old pillocks have turned it into a political football and the lack of control by Warners p@@@@@ me off too - two rants for the price of one - now there is vfm for you!!

 

This will be forgotten in 5 minutes (one of the benefits of old age!) so back to the task in hand - looking on the bright side!

 

Stay safe and happy travels to all - even political numptiesl!!

 

 

[John52]

Tracker - 2021-09-26 10:11 PM the same old pillocks have turned it into a political football

.. and you are one of them, but don't see it (lol)

just try reading some of your own inflammatory posts on this thread

.. and would you have wanted to have stopped talking about Brexit if it had been a success

[John52]

CurtainRaiser - 2021-09-26 8:51 PM

 

 

Shows how bad things have got when Patel is forced into a climbdown and letting EU workers back in.

Not that they will want to come now anyway.

Already working for the British companies that have moved to the right side of the Brexit trade barrier.

Getting paid in Euros so they have more money to send home.

[Derek Uzzell]

I’m going to delete this thread on the basis that it clearly conflicts with Daniel Attwood's view on what is acceptable (see ---- THREADS DISAPPEARING ---- entry at top of this forum).

 

Presumably nobody will object to me doing this?

[John52]

So the Brexiteers have shouted down any discussion

Again. :-S

[CurtainRaiser]

Derek Uzzell - 2021-09-27 8:26 AM

 

I’m going to delete this thread on the basis that it clearly conflicts with Daniel Attwood's view on what is acceptable (see ---- THREADS DISAPPEARING ---- entry at top of this forum).

 

Presumably nobody will object to me doing this?

 

Yes I will!

 

But I doubt it would make a difference. Personally I think its unnecessary as the main antagonist seems to have "a poor internet connection" and, as the winnings of his glorious Brexit unfold, he has gone a bit quiet.

[Derek Uzzell]

Since you joined the Out&AboutLive forums in September 2020 you've posted 3 times on the Motorhome Matters forum, but 1785 times on the Chatterbox forum, so I can appreciate you might be 'protective' of Chatterbox material. But if a Chatterbox thread clearly fails to meet Daniel Attwood's very easy-going (in my view) criteria for Warners forums' acceptability, I've no hesitation in deleting it. I normally move such threads to the Admin Quarantine forum where it stays in limbo but can be reinstated. As I've. said in the past, 'punitive' actions taken by forum Moderators can be queried with the forums' Administator.

[CurtainRaiser]

I do look at the Motorhome forum but unless I have some particular technical knowledge I leave posting to others. Given that you and other contributors are clearly more knowledgeable about such things its hardly surprising i don't post there, but rest assured if someone asked a question about carrying kayaks on roof racks or cycle storage in garages I'd happily try to help.

[colin]

Tracker - 2021-09-26 3:45 PM

 

We, as a nation, are now paying the price for allowing low paid foreign workers to overwhelm our working populace in the short term name of 'keeping costs down'.

 

Couple that with a general lack of incentive for people of working age to work when benefits, freebies and charities obviously provide a greater attraction for doing nothing and it is no small wonder we are in the deep doo dah that we are.

 

It is high time that low paid workers with socially and physically difficult jobs - like carers - like good HGV drivers - are properly trained and rewarded and recognised as an important part of the structure of society.

 

Yes it will cost more, a lot more, but why should these low paid but skilful jobs be perpetuated as low paid when they are so needed to keep the country running.

 

We are a wealthy country and we should all be paying more tax and higher prices if that is what it takes to ensure the long term security of our own futures.

 

In general I agree with you, for the last 20 years the UK has relied on immigration to perpetuate the 'smoke and mirrors' which is the UK economy. I've posted before how 'natives' have been pretty much forced out of work for low paid immigrants, I'm not anti these immigrants as generally they appear to be hard working and they where a 'god send' when it came to caring for my mother in her final years, but it has distorted the labour market. As a country we no longer have the EU to prop up the economy, we now need to learn to live on our own, it may well be a bonanza for some in the short term, but there may well be a big readjustment which could expose the populous to the real world and as JRM said we can expect decades of hardship as the country finds it's feet.

[Brian Kirby]

colin - 2021-09-27 12:00 PM

Tracker - 2021-09-26 3:45 PM

We, as a nation, are now paying the price for allowing low paid foreign workers to overwhelm our working populace in the short term name of 'keeping costs down'.

 

Couple that with a general lack of incentive for people of working age to work when benefits, freebies and charities obviously provide a greater attraction for doing nothing and it is no small wonder we are in the deep doo dah that we are.

 

It is high time that low paid workers with socially and physically difficult jobs - like carers - like good HGV drivers - are properly trained and rewarded and recognised as an important part of the structure of society.

 

Yes it will cost more, a lot more, but why should these low paid but skilful jobs be perpetuated as low paid when they are so needed to keep the country running. .

 

We are a wealthy country and we should all be paying more tax and higher prices if that is what it takes to ensure the long term security of our own futures.

In general I agree with you, for the last 20 years the UK has relied on immigration to perpetuate the 'smoke and mirrors' which is the UK economy. I've posted before how 'natives' have been pretty much forced out of work for low paid immigrants, I'm not anti these immigrants as generally they appear to be hard working and they where a 'god send' when it came to caring for my mother in her final years, but it has distorted the labour market. As a country we no longer have the EU to prop up the economy, we now need to learn to live on our own, it may well be a bonanza for some in the short term, but there may well be a big readjustment which could expose the populous to the real world and as JRM said we can expect decades of hardship as the country finds it's feet.

But, we should also remember that not all decisions are made by government. It seems to me that we have regressed 50 years, and are now seeing afresh the problems we had before we joined the EEC/EU, that joining was supposed to allow us to escape.

 

Rich makes good points above, but all that happened is that the immigrants came from Europe rather than the Caribbean and SE Asia. In the meantime, along came China, to which much of our manufacturing base, and so jobs, was exported. Government did little to discourage either (especially Blair who failed as other, wiser IMO, European governments did, to invoke the provisions allowing us to place delays on free movement for the new, ex Eastern Bloc, members) immigration, or export of jobs.

 

Those whose employment was exported therefore fell back on our Welfare State, as they were entitled to do, and to which they had contributed while working. So my first cavil is the inference that they were therefore lazy. Those seeking re-employment were swimming in a shrinking sea. Trying to maintain a home and family is a far cry form immigrants shacking up several to a room, as many did.

 

So yes, those with the skills should be, and should have been, properly rewarded - but it was not government that was responsible for that. It was the owners (private and public), of the various "industries" who favoured the cheaper (and often well educated and qualified) migrant labour, and who decided to switch production to the far East. The excuse seems to have been little better than "everyone else is doing it".

 

The key is our productivity record, where although we may have the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world, we are way down the scale when compared on out per capita GDP. Why? Same as pre EEC: our industries prefer hire and fire to investment in productivity. Quick results and low risk, so the shares do well in the short term and the boards get rewarded - no matter the longer term consequences. So, cheap migrant workers and manna from heaven. That, IMO, is the ingredient missing from this discussion. Our currency floats, but lacks sufficient weight to resist the speculators. We've proved that. So our export pricing becomes a game of Russian roulette. Coupled to that that we have high land prices, and import more goods and foodstuffs than we export. Services can't employ those who lost their jobs elsewhere because so many lack the credentials to do the really profitable services jobs (financial services) so are forced back into direct competition with the migrants in the hospitality etc. sector. But, those who look to the UK for permanent home can't afford one. It will, as above, take years, if ever, to reverse the lazy search for quick cheap fixes rather than concentration on product quality as the basis on which they trade. Back in the early 70's were were said to be a low wage, high cost economy. Our management was castigated for its lack of appropriate skills and hire and fire mentality. Plus ca change??

[Guest pelmetman]

Looks like those Johnny foriegner types dont want to come back here to work anyway ;-) .........

 

So I guess the Haulage Association will have to invest in British drivers after all B-) .........

 

 

[John52]

pelmetman - 2021-09-27 1:48 PM

.

 

So I guess the Haulage Association will have to invest in British drivers after all B-) .........

 

 

Why doesn't your Government offer training for productive occupations like LGV driving, instead of unproductive ones?

If a guy wants an LGV licence he has to pay for all the training, vehicle hire, medical, theory and practice exam, himself in his own time. A lot of guys can't afford all that- especially when they are not bound to pass the test at the end. Then, if he gets through all that, because he has got no exprerience he starts with the crappiest job that no experienced driver wants.

I get that hiring unemployed in UK would be better than bringing in migrants. But you need to train them first - before you stop the migrants coming in.

[John52]

Brian Kirby - 2021-09-27 1:44 PM

The key is our productivity record, where although we may have the fifth or sixth largest economy in the world, we are way down the scale when compared on out per capita GDP. Why?

 

Because most of our GDP is unproductive - like £1,000 pcm for renting out a crummy little flat in a grotty part of London, syphoned off to a shell company in one of Her Majesty's Tax Havens. Or the 'imputed' rent you are paying yourself for your house which all adds to the GDP figure. On top of that we have more extreme wealth and poverty than aywhere in the EU.

All this makes the GDP figure irrelevant.

You would get a better idea of London's prosperity by looking at its housing and foodbanks, than its GDP

But politicians prefer to quote the irrelevant GDP figure because it looks better.

[Bulletguy]

Brian Kirby - 2021-09-27 1:44 PM

 

colin - 2021-09-27 12:00 PM

Tracker - 2021-09-26 3:45 PM

We, as a nation, are now paying the price for allowing low paid foreign workers to overwhelm our working populace in the short term name of 'keeping costs down'.

 

Couple that with a general lack of incentive for people of working age to work when benefits, freebies and charities obviously provide a greater attraction for doing nothing and it is no small wonder we are in the deep doo dah that we are.

 

It is high time that low paid workers with socially and physically difficult jobs - like carers - like good HGV drivers - are properly trained and rewarded and recognised as an important part of the structure of society.

 

Yes it will cost more, a lot more, but why should these low paid but skilful jobs be perpetuated as low paid when they are so needed to keep the country running. .

 

We are a wealthy country and we should all be paying more tax and higher prices if that is what it takes to ensure the long term security of our own futures.

In general I agree with you, for the last 20 years the UK has relied on immigration to perpetuate the 'smoke and mirrors' which is the UK economy. I've posted before how 'natives' have been pretty much forced out of work for low paid immigrants, I'm not anti these immigrants as generally they appear to be hard working and they where a 'god send' when it came to caring for my mother in her final years, but it has distorted the labour market. As a country we no longer have the EU to prop up the economy, we now need to learn to live on our own, it may well be a bonanza for some in the short term, but there may well be a big readjustment which could expose the populous to the real world and as JRM said we can expect decades of hardship as the country finds it's feet.

It will, as above, take years, if ever, to reverse the lazy search for quick cheap fixes rather than concentration on product quality as the basis on which they trade.

The "fix" they're going for now offering temporary visas is exactly that. Too little way too late and how many European drivers with permanent jobs where they have unfettered access to transport in 27 countries, all of whom have excellent rest stop facilities for drivers, are going to give that up to come to backward third country UK where they'll be sent to park up on some remote airfield with zero facilities and told to clear off come December?

 

Government knew what was coming as they'd been warned often enough by the professionals, but instead of acting on those warnings they chose to do nothing. Whilst HGV drivers were taken off the list of necessary workers, Ballerinas were seen as more important.

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/fuel-shortage-panic-buying-hgv-drivers/

 

Yesterday on the Marr show Shapps said there was plenty of fuel. How did he know? Because he'd contacted the refineries. Just a shame he hadn't bothered to contact any forecourt stations instead where the fuel is dispensed from. We know there's "plenty of fuel" (at the moment!), just that it's in the wrong place because we don't have enough drivers to shift it to where it's needed.

[Tracker]

John52 - 2021-09-27 7:16 AM

 

Tracker - 2021-09-26 10:11 PM the same old pillocks have turned it into a political football

.. and you are one of them, but don't see it (lol)

just try reading some of your own inflammatory posts on this thread

.. and would you have wanted to have stopped talking about Brexit if it had been a success

 

Just look back at the number of whingeing moaning bitching threads that you and like minded types have initiated and compare that number to the number of similar threads that I have initiated to see who is talking about Brexit and who is responding to political claptrap.

 

Regardless of what you may think we are where we are and the only way forward is to unite - apart from politicians who are unable to comprehend the word - to work at making the country better.

 

But I do appreciate that unity is another word that seems to escape from the rules of common sense.

 

As far as I am concerned Derek can delete the whole of Chatterbox for all the difference it will make to reality - just look at the broad spread of narrow topics !

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:22 PM

 

As far as I am concerned Derek can delete the whole of Chatterbox for all the difference it will make to reality - just look at the broad spread of narrow topics !

Perhaps you should consider other fm's who post on CB more regularly than you and contributed constructively to this thread with factual reports/links.

[John52]

Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:22 PM

As far as I am concerned Derek can delete the whole of Chatterbox

 

.. and save you further embarrasement (lol)

[Tracker]

Bulletguy - 2021-09-27 4:40 PM

 

Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:22 PM

 

As far as I am concerned Derek can delete the whole of Chatterbox for all the difference it will make to reality - just look at the broad spread of narrow topics !

Perhaps you should consider other fm's who post on CB more regularly than you and contributed constructively to this thread with factual reports/links.

 

Perhaps you should consider not posting so much selective politically motivated cut and paste biased opinions from the hours you must spend trawling the internet?

 

Constructive contribution is not a phrase I would associate with you.

 

Over to you Derek!!

[Tracker]

John52 - 2021-09-27 6:45 PM

 

Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:22 PM

As far as I am concerned Derek can delete the whole of Chatterbox

 

.. and save you further embarrasement (lol)

 

Perhaps you should consider not posting so much selective politically motivated cut and paste biased other peoples opinions from the hours you must spend trawling the internet?

 

Over to you Derek!!

 

[Bulletguy]

Tracker - 2021-09-27 7:09 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2021-09-27 4:40 PM

 

Tracker - 2021-09-27 4:22 PM

 

As far as I am concerned Derek can delete the whole of Chatterbox for all the difference it will make to reality - just look at the broad spread of narrow topics !

Perhaps you should consider other fm's who post on CB more regularly than you and contributed constructively to this thread with factual reports/links.

 

Perhaps you should consider not posting so much selective politically motivated cut and paste biased opinions from the hours you must spend trawling the internet?

 

Constructive contribution is not a phrase I would associate with you.

Some of my linked sources taken from The Times, Telegraph, and Financial Times to name three yet you claim as "selective politically motivated biased opinions". I never had you down as an extremist but it seems none of those were far right enough for you.

 

If you have nothing to add to the thread topic then fine, but quit being disruptive and trying to get it taken down because you don't like the current points being reported relating to what is a serious matter.

[CurtainRaiser]

Tracker - 2021-09-26 4:32 PM

 

SUCCESSIVE Governments ever since British industry fell behind the rest of the world due to short sighted unions, aided by worker laziness, lack of investment, poor management

 

SUCCESSIVE governments have sought to create non jobs rather than the manufacturing and export jobs that create incoming wealth and a trade surplus.

 

NO government of any flavour has ever had the balls to take the country by the scruff of the neck, give it a good shake and say 'no more' to faux jobs and unaffordable benefits.

 

Run the country like you run your household - live within your means - earn enough to support your chosen lifestyle.

 

We have changed governments enough time to avoid the blame game but gutless politicians of every variety have failed the country and now have a lot to answer for.

 

Yes given the number of times in one post you have managed to contradict yourself I can understand why you want the thread deleted/evidence hidden.

[CurtainRaiser]

.

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2021-09-27 3:17 PM

 

pelmetman - 2021-09-27 1:48 PM

.

 

So I guess the Haulage Association will have to invest in British drivers after all B-) .........

 

 

Why doesn't your Government offer training for productive occupations like LGV driving, instead of unproductive ones?

If a guy wants an LGV licence he has to pay for all the training, vehicle hire, medical, theory and practice exam, himself in his own time. A lot of guys can't afford all that- especially when they are not bound to pass the test at the end. Then, if he gets through all that, because he has got no exprerience he starts with the crappiest job that no experienced driver wants.

I get that hiring unemployed in UK would be better than bringing in migrants. But you need to train them first - before you stop the migrants coming in.

 

Why dont the haulage association offer training instead of bitching? ;-) ..........

 

When I learn't to drive a bus I was trained for FREE by the bus company :D .........

 

 

[CurtainRaiser]

pelmetman - 2021-09-28 8:23 AM

 

John52 - 2021-09-27 3:17 PM

 

pelmetman - 2021-09-27 1:48 PM

.

 

So I guess the Haulage Association will have to invest in British drivers after all B-) .........

 

 

Why doesn't your Government offer training for productive occupations like LGV driving, instead of unproductive ones?

If a guy wants an LGV licence he has to pay for all the training, vehicle hire, medical, theory and practice exam, himself in his own time. A lot of guys can't afford all that- especially when they are not bound to pass the test at the end. Then, if he gets through all that, because he has got no exprerience he starts with the crappiest job that no experienced driver wants.

I get that hiring unemployed in UK would be better than bringing in migrants. But you need to train them first - before you stop the migrants coming in.

 

Why dont the haulage association offer training instead of bitching? ;-) ..........

 

When I learn't to drive a bus I was trained for FREE by the bus company :D .........

 

 

Who owned the bus company?