You’re Banned!

[Tracker]

Brock - 2022-04-27 8:59 AM

 

My concern, and has been for a while, is that Motorhome Matters is dying through a lack of topics compared with the past. Being banned has now become a regular occurrence for me but one I can overcome. The fall in posts and the loss of knowledgeable contributors over the years is not something I can overcome. Still, MM remains where I go for sensible and trustworthy advice.

 

Perhaps as we move into the busy holiday period after CoVid, things will pick up. Perhaps as with other forums, MM has seen its day and needs to be closed and replaced with something else.

 

Just a theory?

 

Many of us older Motorhomers are retiring from travelling and perhaps we come from an age where finding solutions to problems oneself was more relevant than it is now, brought about initially years ago by a shortage of cash backed up by an enthusiasm for DIY.

 

That approach seems to have dissipated amongst the younger generations who today seem quite happy to just book their van in for repair rather than seek to fix and repair, service or modify it themselves, just as using a decorator for home decor as opposed to DIY seems to have grown in favour?.

 

This may have a lot to do with computerisation and digitising previoiusly mechanically operated bits which makes modern vans far less DIYable that the far less complex vans that my generation grew old with?

 

Perhaps if Political Chatterbox were abolished and the users consigned to Faceache or Twitbrains it might allow this forum to revert to a Motorhome and Leisure forum with perhaps more encouragement in the various magazines for Tenters and Tuggers to play a more active part?

 

Perhaps the printed magazines themselves have beome less relevant these days, or been impacted by the explosion of digital information?

 

Or is there another reason?

[Derek Uzzell]

Keithl - 2022-04-27 8:52 AM

 

Now when a Spammer gets removed from the forum the Admins typically block the IP address they have posted from so it is highly likely at some point in the future an innocent forum member will be assigned the same IP address and hence will get the 'Banned' message.

 

 

IP addresses aren't set in concrete

 

https://www.kaspersky.com/resource-center/definitions/what-is-an-ip-address

 

Platforms designed to run internet community forums normally have a 'banning' feature that can target a user by their IP address, email address or user-name, and it's probable that 'banning' on the O&AL forums is done via user-name as that's what stays constant within the forum's population.

 

Posts from a 'bannee' can be identified by there being no Profile information to the left of the posting and the user-name is in bold black type. The user-name "peter" in this 2015 thread is an example.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/X250-Which-OBD-code-reader-/37379/

[Keithl]

Derek Uzzell - 2022-04-27 6:58 PM

 

Platforms designed to run internet community forums normally have a 'banning' feature that can target a user by their IP address, email address or user-name, and it's probable that 'banning' on the O&AL forums is done via user-name as that's what stays constant within the forum's population.

Derek,

 

I have just gone back through my emails from Daniel and/or Rachel and they have been banning by IP as well as username!

 

Derek Uzzell - 2022-04-27 6:58 PM

 

Posts from a 'bannee' can be identified by there being no Profile information to the left of the posting and the user-name is in bold black type. The user-name "peter" in this 2015 thread is an example.

There is also a lower level of banning where the 'Active status' is changed to 'No' before full banning where the username turns black. I was following the progress of a forum member after a CB spat and his status was 'No' for several days before going black.

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

Thanks for that information, but if banning is being carried out by IP address alone (as you warned earlier) it's potentially asking for trouble.

 

I'm aware that short-term banning has been imposed on some forum members and, when that happens, that their user account is made inactive temporarily and the username is not 'black listed'. There's also been the rare instance when a user has asked the forum Administrator to permanently disable their forum account - so not every bold-blacked username on postings identifies a bannee (though most do).

[Derek Uzzell]

Tracker - 2022-04-27 3:32 PM

 

...Perhaps if Political Chatterbox were abolished and the users consigned to Faceache or Twitbrains it might allow this forum to revert to a Motorhome and Leisure forum with perhaps more encouragement in the various magazines for Tenters and Tuggers to play a more active part?...

 

I believe Chatterbox in the form it's become has no place in a 'leisure' forum framework, but removing it or having a 'chat' forum with a more tightly defined scope (that excludes political wrangling) won't breath new life into the Out&AboutLive forums.

 

When the O&AL forums came on stream in 2006, the competition was 'subscribe to use' rather than 'free to use' and this gave O&AL a competitive edge that, nowadays, seems to matter much less. (The situation is similar with the free-to-use Practical Caravan forums where the motorhome section is dead.)

 

As will be evident from the following link there's a lot of activity on the MHFun forum

 

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/forums/motorhome-chat.5/

 

and if motorcaravanners (young or old) are regularly participating on MHFun - and thus prepared to pay the subscription - they probably won't bother to participate on O&AL. In fact, if I were a paid-up Funster, I very much doubt that I'd involve myself with O&AL merely because it was free to do so.

[Tracker]

You only have to look at the home page to see how few people now use this forum.

 

In 'the old days' the list of participants on site would extend to several lines of blue text - maybe 30 or so users on a good day - but these days it's very rare to see more than half a dozen or so users online at any one time - and half of them only use Chatterbox.

 

Nobody could blame Warners if they pulled the plug and unless ways can be found to publicise the forum to try to get more participants and perhaps recreate some sort of community as well as make the mountain of good solid advice and information easier to access - all of which would carry a cost with no guarantee of success - I too can't see it lasting much longer.

 

I can remember a time when groups of like minded motorhomers used to arrange on here to meet up at shows and several long lasting friendships were made.

 

The generation that built this forum are all getting older and retiring, or worse, and of those that remain a dwindling number have up to date knowledge of modern motorhomes with which to help others.

 

Speaking personally I have over 50 years of motorhoming experience but the newest van I ever had is now 11 years old and I have now been vanless for over 5 years so my experiences are much less helpful in so many details to the current generation of motorhome owners.

 

My perception is that there seems to be very little interest from the younger generation in the OAL Forum older style.

 

Much credit must go to Derek for keeping the forum alive, his knowledge base and his memory are phenomenal, without which many cries for help would go unanswered as the MMM experts of old no longer seem to support the forum.

 

It is indeed difficult to see a positive future for this forum.

[BruceM]

Tracker - 2022-04-29 11:09 AM

In 'the old days' the list of participants on site would extend to several lines of blue text - maybe 30 or so users on a good day - but these days it's very rare to see more than half a dozen or so users online at any one time - and half of them only use Chatterbox.

 

I’d not read too much into the numbers. For instance I only log in if I have something to contribute so despite checking the forum at least once per day I simply won’t appear on the ‘blue’ list. I suspect I’m not alone.

[laimeduck]

BruceM - 2022-04-29 6:55 PM

 

Tracker - 2022-04-29 11:09 AM

In 'the old days' the list of participants on site would extend to several lines of blue text - maybe 30 or so users on a good day - but these days it's very rare to see more than half a dozen or so users online at any one time - and half of them only use Chatterbox.

 

I’d not read too much into the numbers. For instance I only log in if I have something to contribute so despite checking the forum at least once per day I simply won’t appear on the ‘blue’ list. I suspect I’m not alone.

Agree entirely. Also, I have to say that the incessant "electrical" dilemmas that seem to appear on a regular basis fill me with horror - I'll stick to my trusty old fashioned van with as few electronic bits as possible. It's also really boring to read about all these problems!

[Derek Uzzell]

There are currently 60 threads on the Motorhome Matters forum with a 'last post' date in April 2022.and - as far as I can make out - none of these relate to 'electrical dilemmas' with the base vehicles (Fiat, Ford, Mercedes etc.) of recent motorhomes - nor have I noticed such dilemmas featuring incessantly over time.

 

The OutandAboutLive's forum framework reflects six 'outdoor magazines' published by the Warners Group and shown in the first section of this link

 

https://www.warnersgroup.co.uk/what-we-do/websites/

 

(There's also a "Land Rover Monthly" magazine in that section, but that wasn't around when the O&AL forums were originally set up and - as there are plenty of dedicated Land Rover-related forums nowadays - there'd be little incentive to add one to the O&AL family.)

 

GOOGLE-ing "UK motorhome forums" or "UK caravan forums" or "UK camping forums" reveals how many there now are (traditional website or Facebook based). The subjects covered on them will be much the same, so (for example) if one has a caravan, why pick O&AL to participate on when it's plain that discussions there about caravanning are so infrequent and there are the much more active Caravan Talk or Practical Caravan forums instead.

 

To quote Ecclesiastes 3:1-8

 

To everything there is a season,

A time for every purpose under heaven:

A time to be born, And a time to die;

A time to plant, And a time to pluck what is planted;

A time to kill, And a time to heal;

A time to break down, And a time to build up;

A time to weep, And a time to laugh;

A time to mourn, And a time to dance;

A time to cast away stones, And a time to gather stones;

A time to embrace, And a time to refrain from embracing;

A time to gain, And a time to lose;

A time to keep, And a time to throw away;

A time to tear, And a time to sew;

A time to keep silence, And a time to speak;

A time to love, And a time to hate;

A time of war, And a time of peace.

 

The O&AL forums have had a long and productive life and, if their time has now run out, will this matter that much?

[Tracker]

Derek Uzzell - 2022-04-30 8:12 AM

The O&AL forums have had a long and productive life and, if their time has now run out, will this matter that much?

 

Not to me it won't, but I no longer have a van and even if I did buy another it would most likely be an older van and I could probably cope without the Forum.

 

So whilst it would not be sad to see the demise of Chatterbox in it's present format, it would be a very sad refection of so called progress to see the demise of Motorhome Matters.

 

Of the 27,845 registered members - just 6 are online.

 

Never, in the history of leisure, has so much been owed by so many to so few!

[malc d]

Derek Uzzell - 2022-04-30 8:12 AM

 

There are currently 60 threads on the Motorhome Matters forum with a 'last post' date in April 2022.and - as far as I can make out -

 

 

The O&AL forums have had a long and productive life and, if their time has now run out, will this matter that much?

 

 

Seems to me that Motorhome Matters is very much alive and well - looking at the number of different posters, and subjects , recently. The number of people ' signed on ' any any time does not signify the numbers viewing.

 

Chatterbox may well die out - it's now down to only two or three regulars so it's certainly not in "good health " - no need to shut it down though - I doubt if it involves any expense keeping it.

 

:-|

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2022-04-30 1:42 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2022-04-30 8:12 AM

 

There are currently 60 threads on the Motorhome Matters forum with a 'last post' date in April 2022.and - as far as I can make out -

 

 

The O&AL forums have had a long and productive life and, if their time has now run out, will this matter that much?

 

 

Seems to me that Motorhome Matters is very much alive and well - looking at the number of different posters, and subjects , recently. The number of people ' signed on ' any any time does not signify the numbers viewing.

 

Chatterbox may well die out - it's now down to only two or three regulars so it's certainly not in "good health " - no need to shut it down though - I doubt if it involves any expense keeping it.

 

:-|

Most if not all motorhome forums have a "General Chat" sub-forum Malc and it's my understanding Chatterbox, the second most popular sub-forum, was opened to keep general chat posts off Motorhome Matters. Afaik there's only two fm's who want CB shut down.......and neither post on there.

[silverback]

so am I *-) and whats with all the adverts (?)

jonathan

[simian]

Motorhome Fun;

 

Has an identifiable "owner". Participates on the forum.

Has a fairly colourful if not overly visually aesthetic site. Relatively user friendly.

Has a 'Likes' facility, it's apparent that people like to show evidence of appreciation, and

no doubt to receive it.

 

Could be why MF seems to be in fair health.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Bulletguy - 2022-04-30 2:36 PM

 

Most if not all motorhome forums have a "General Chat" sub-forum Malc and it's my understanding Chatterbox, the second most popular sub-forum, was opened to keep general chat posts off Motorhome Matters. Afaik there's only two fm's who want CB shut down.......and neither post on there.

 

I notice from the "Bulletguy" Profile that this user-name was not registered on the O&AL forums until 2010. If that's when you first participated here (Plenty of current forum members, including me, have alter egos) then you won't be aware what happened when the original Warners motorhomes-specific forum that was 'code-linked' to MMM magazine became open-to-all when O&AL want live.

 

The original 'MMM' forum had become incestuous, rather boring and activity had fallen way off. I had argued with that forum's Administrator (Peter Sharpe) that the new forum that was being developed should be open to all, but there were real fears over what might happen (I remember the phrase "loonies coming out of the woodwork" being used). Sure enough, within a couple of weeks the Motorhome Matters forum had become an uncontrollable madhouse. I took a several months sabbatical at that point and the next time I looked at the O&AL forums the Chatterbox forum had been added to filter off material that was not directly relevant to the other forums.

 

This policy worked reasonably well until - during the last couple of years - Chatterbox morphed into Soapbox, with the current endless Twittery 'political' arguments preventing the Chatterbox forum being used for anything else.

 

I've got nothing against there being a 'general' forum within the O&AL forum framework, but I see no reason for a general forum being a politics-only forum.

[pepe63xnotuse]

My apologies for "bumping" this back up the page.. but I was just wondering whether the new forum that is supposedly in the pipeline would retain some sort of access to the info' that had been previously been posted on here?.. or would it be a totally fresh-start from scratch-entity?

 

It would be a shame to lose the, possibly hard- to-source-again, info/hints/help that has been gathered over many years on here..

(ie-Hab' stuff like boilers/heating/chargers etc, as well as the many base vehicle issues?)

 

Having owned a Toyota Hiace "van" for some years, and having just got another Granvia campervan- both of which have very little in the way of (uk) online "support"- I am all too aware of how useful 'sites like this can be...?

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I'm not sure whether, when the O&AL forums were created 16-or-so years ago, the software on which they are based was 'bespoke' or commercially available at that time. Whatever the case, my understanding has always been that oversight of that software - and any modifications to it - is carried out by a 3rd-party and not by Warners staff. Maintaining legacy software is a bugbear (and usually costly) and I'm guessing that moving the forums to a modern 'platform' that could be handled in-house was a primary reason for the forthcoming change.

 

There are plenty of forum software packages

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Internet_forum_software

 

and I've no idea what Warners might choose to use.

 

The Practical Caravan forum was switched to XenForo a couple of years ago. If I remember correctly, the caravan-related data (warts and all!) was moved en masse and the sub-forum framework of the new PC forum remained virtually unchanged. The Practical Motorhome forum that had existed as a separate entity (but living on life-support) was bolted on to the new Practical Caravan forum where it's brain-dead but still breathing .

 

Probably the simplest approach for the O&AL forum would be to retain the current framework (with sub-forums associated with Warners leisure magazines) and to copy at least some of the present data over.

 

The O&AL forums are not data-bases and block-copying over all of the threads of every sub-forum (eg. currently 34665 threads for Motorhome Matters) would not be a productive thing to do in my view. If the current sub-forum framework were to be maintained I'd copy a maximum 1000 threads from each sub-forum except for Motorhome Matters where 3000 threads would seem more appropriate. I'd kill Chatterbox as it stands and resurrect it with a different name and a tighter-defined purpose.

 

It's likely that current users will need to re-register to participate on the new O&AL forum - which will indicate how many 'live' registered users there actually are nowadays (It certainly won't be 27848 and I'd be surprised if it's more than 50.) There'll also be a need to sort out the forum Administrator/Moderator terms of reference and (in my opinion) the terms of forum acceptable forum use need simplifying dramatically.

 

Interesting times...

[thebishbus]

It would be interesting if someone started a thread asking all forum users to log in just once, and say, I'm still here.

Brian B.

[Derek Uzzell]

I can't see that achieving anything useful.

 

Given how old the O&AL forum is, I very much doubt that it was set up to provide management statistical 'tools' that would permit an Administrator to identify how many registered users logon over a specified time period, or the number of times each registered user logs on during a time period, or how many postings each registered user makes during a time period, etc. etc.

 

As far as I'm aware there is no way of knowing how many registered users just 'monitor' the O&AL forum without logging on, nor how many people view the forum on a read-only basis without having registered a user-name.

 

The Forum Information Center states that there are currently 691596 posts in 53827 threads across 23 forums, and that there are 27853 registered users. I'm not sure where the 23 forums figure comes from, but the number of threads/posts is probably right. There may well be nearly-28K registered user-names, but most of them will be 'obsolete'.

 

If registered forum users need to login/reregister when the O&AL forum switches to a new platform (which is the usual requirement) the true size of the present 'active' registered-user population will become known and - as I said above - if it turns out to be more than 50 people, that would surprise me.

 

 

[arthur49]

Well I've been a member on here for many years. I've found some of the expertise on here invaluable, starting with the late Allan Evans, Nick Fisher, MikeFitz, AlanB, Veletron and others ...................... no offence intended if I've missed you out or mistyped your name.

 

But this forum is not worth the hassle. Log- in gymnastics every time I come on?

 

I'll persevere but I wonder if Warners are no longer interested and letting it 'die' through member apathy.

 

I no longer buy the magazine either. Fed up wading through pages and pages of ads, reviews of caravan parks etc

[tonyishuk]

Had the dreaded banned notice yesterday, logged in and all was fine.

 

I would have thought that fixing a page counter to monitor usage would be a quick and easy fix if it’s not already there in the site ,

 

Basic investigation just to see if it’s advertising has potential on any site nowadays

 

Anything but NOT a move to Facebook. , (Similar sites are available with similar motives to pump and drain its users for any information)

 

Rgds

 

A sideways thought ! What better way to know how many use the site by banning all users and counting the new logins 8-;

 

[Derek Uzzell]

arthur49 - 2022-05-08 6:32 PM

 

...I'll persevere but I wonder if Warners are no longer interested and letting it 'die' through member apathy...

 

I'm not sure what Warners can do about 'member apathy'.

 

A couple of yeas ago the Practical Caravan and Practical Motorhome forums were integrated into a single Practical Caravan (PC) forum using the XenForo platform. Xenforo provides a proper word-processor, easy attachment to postings of large files and all the glitzy bells a whistles beloved by Facebookers. Although the caravan-related parts of the PC forum are quite active, the motorhome-related sections hardly ever get a new posting and - when a technical enquiry is made - it's rarely answered adequately. Motorcaravanners are clearly showing no interest in the PC forum and a forum's user-population needs a group of informed people for it to remain alive and kicking.

 

It's anybody's guess whether the forthcoming O&AL move to a spanking modern forum platform results in a big upsurge in interest (after all, the O&AL forum will continue to be free to join/use after the move) but there'll still need to be a critical mass of 'altruistic guru' users to keep the thing going.

[witzend]

Derek Uzzell - 2022-05-09 8:23 AM

 

It's anybody's guess whether the forthcoming O&AL move to a spanking modern forum platform results in a big upsurge in interest (after all, the O&AL forum will continue to be free to join/use after the move) but there'll still need to be a critical mass of 'altruistic guru' users to keep the thing going.

 

If it was ever going to happen surely it should have happened by now they been talking about it for a long time

[Brock]

I expect Warners have done research into the leisure industry/customer base to get a good understanding of the pro and cons of a forum.

 

We used to have a member of the Warner team playing an active role on the forum. He wasn't replaced when he left. Perhaps more hands on by Warners would kick start a revival. Experts have left over the years and not been replaced. Perhaps someone or a group should take on responsibility to ensure the forum has people waiting in the wings to take on an adviser role (not an expert role) for a topic or two. Warners have great shows but they hardly get mentioned in the forum - compare with Motorhome Fun use of its forum to drum up attendees. Perhaps a better link between the forum, magazine, and shows would help. Any posts over three years old should be ditched or reviewed and if relevant, republished on the forum.

 

What will happen if Derek and/or Keith go on a year long cruise with no wifi!

 

[Derek Uzzell]

witzend - 2022-05-09 11:25 AM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2022-05-09 8:23 AM

 

It's anybody's guess whether the forthcoming O&AL move to a spanking modern forum platform results in a big upsurge in interest (after all, the O&AL forum will continue to be free to join/use after the move) but there'll still need to be a critical mass of 'altruistic guru' users to keep the thing going.

 

If it was ever going to happen surely it should have happened by now they been talking about it for a long time

 

My understanding is that funding for moving the O&AL forums to a new platform was not authorised until the start of this year and that the exercise would not take place until Spring at the earliest. It's been reported here that testing is currently being carried out on another of the Warners forums.