South through Rouen

[teccer1234]

many thanks to Jefferson Campervan and Derek Uzzell for helping me to get my crit'air sticker.

I now have the certificate with crit'air 4 which is better than I expected.

thanks all.

[Derek Uzzell]

Interesting...

I don't know how much 'vetting' takes place when a Crit'Air sticker application is received, but - as far as I can see - the only way for you to have ended up with a "4" sticker seems to be by combining the date of first registration in the UK (01/06/2007) on your Hymer's V5C with the HGV category. Combining the 01/06/2007 date with the 'car' category should result in a "3" sticker. Combining the Hymer's correct date of first registration (01/09/2000) with the 'car' category should result in a "5" sticker, or no sticker if the HGV category were chosen.

[teccer1234]

2 hours ago, Derek Uzzell said:

Interesting...

I don't know how much 'vetting' takes place when a Crit'Air sticker application is received, but - as far as I can see - the only way for you to have ended up with a "4" sticker seems to be by combining the date of first registration in the UK (01/06/2007) on your Hymer's V5C with the HGV category. Combining the 01/06/2007 date with the 'car' category should result in a "3" sticker. Combining the Hymer's correct date of first registration (01/09/2000) with the 'car' category should result in a "5" sticker, or no sticker if the HGV category were chosen.

It could have been that after I applied 3 times they thought sod it let it go !!!!!! but my thoughts are that as the euro 3 and 2 status was only 3 months below the limit required maybe thats the reason, whatever I'm happy with the results ;-}.

thanks for your help

[Derek Uzzell]

I'm doubtful that there's a human being involved at the French end of the Crit'Air sticker application procedure and that an appropriate sticker will be issued simply based on what an applicant enters on the application 'form'.

It's improbable that your "4" sticker was awarded because you had applied previously and the French issuing authorities were fed up with you, and the date-windows for the various categories will be rigidly fixed with no allowance for 'slippage' before or after a window's start/end.

[JeffersonCampervan]

Ok - I received a response from the City of Rouen ZFE Department. 

Considering Derek's explication of what "motorhome" means in this context, I'm unsure if one should rely on this response. 

I have asked Rouen for clarification regarding foreign registered motorhomes. 

Here's the response :

"Sir,

 You wanted to know if there was an exemption for motorhomes to drive in the ZFE-m of the Rouen Normandy Metropolis.

 We confirm that motorhomes are authorized to circulate in the ZFE-m by way of derogation, until June 30, 2024.

 Cordially

 The ZFE-m Team"

 

Here's my original question:

 

"Please excuse my French.
 
 I'm a Canadian who drives south every winter from the Netherlands in a 2001 Hymer motorhome. I always go via the A28, crossing Rouen to the A13 towards Evreux/Chartres.
 
 With the new ZFE, I don't see a legal route to drive from the A28 in the north to the A13 in the south.
 
 My questions:
 
 1. Is there a route (for example the Rocades) that I can cross or circumvent Rouen legally?
 
 2. A magazine says there is a derogation for motorhomes, but I don't see that on the Rouen site.  Is there such a derogation?
 
 I look forward to your response - I want to make sure I'm not breaking any laws in Rouen.
 
 Thanks"

 

I have attached screenshots of the originals in French, with personal info redacted. 

[teccer1234]

4 hours ago, JeffersonCampervan said:

Ok - I received a response from the City of Rouen ZFE Department. 

Considering Derek's explication of what "motorhome" means in this context, I'm unsure if one should rely on this response. 

I have asked Rouen for clarification regarding foreign registered motorhomes. 

Here's the response :

"Sir,

 You wanted to know if there was an exemption for motorhomes to drive in the ZFE-m of the Rouen Normandy Metropolis.

 We confirm that motorhomes are authorized to circulate in the ZFE-m by way of derogation, until June 30, 2024.

 Cordially

 The ZFE-m Team"

 

Here's my original question:

 

"Please excuse my French.
 
 I'm a Canadian who drives south every winter from the Netherlands in a 2001 Hymer motorhome. I always go via the A28, crossing Rouen to the A13 towards Evreux/Chartres.
 
 With the new ZFE, I don't see a legal route to drive from the A28 in the north to the A13 in the south.
 
 My questions:
 
 1. Is there a route (for example the Rocades) that I can cross or circumvent Rouen legally?
 
 2. A magazine says there is a derogation for motorhomes, but I don't see that on the Rouen site.  Is there such a derogation?
 
 I look forward to your response - I want to make sure I'm not breaking any laws in Rouen.
 
 Thanks"

 

I have attached screenshots of the originals in French, with personal info redacted. 

many thanks for taking all the trouble to sort this problem out, today I've spent 2 hours at least setting up my sat nav trying to find a decent route around Paris, so now with the info you have posted I will take a chance and go my normal route from the A28 then just east of the river down to the A13 as usual.

I have laminated the French copy of their answer just in case.

fingers crossed.

many thanks, J C.

[JeffersonCampervan]

When are you going teccer1234? 

Please let us know how it goes. 

I expect to be transitting Rouen on December 3 or 4.

[teccer1234]

down to the villa on La Manga, Murcia, haven't booked the tunnel yet so not sure when we're going I think you will be going before us

[JeffersonCampervan]

Another data point that might give a temporary reprieve - (from https://actu.fr/normandie/rouen_76540/exceptions-derogations-quels-seront-les-vehicules-concernes-par-la-zfe-de-l-agglo-de-rouen_52829273.html ) :

"An educational period is planned from September 1, 2022 to March 1, 2023. "During this period, it is recommended to the authorities responsible for the police (mayors for the municipal police for example) to give instructions that the controls carried out lead to explanations, a call to order if necessary and an accompaniment without immediate automatic sanction of users," details the Metropolis of Rouen." 

And another:

"As for sanctions in case of non-compliance with the ZFE-m (68 euros fine for a light vehicle), Nicolas Mayer-Rossignol had specified in early July 2022 that a "pedagogical period" of "several months" would be put in place initially. Finally, it will extend until March 1, 2023. In other words, the penalties for vehicles that do not comply with the driving or parking ban will not fall as of September 1."

(from https://actu.fr/normandie/rouen_76540/zfe-de-la-metropole-de-rouen-voici-les-villes-ou-il-faudra-la-bonne-vignette-crit-air-pour-circuler_52818030.html) 

[Derek Uzzell]

This 1 September 2022 file details Rouen's ZFE 'exemption' rules

https://www.metropole-rouen-normandie.fr/sites/default/files/2022-09/Les_derogations_V20220901_3.pdf

There's no doubt that the exemption for a motorhome ("autocaravane" in French) demands that the vehicle's registration document be marked "VASP" AND 'CARAVANE" (and not "VASP" OR 'CARAVANE" as I've seen stated on some French motorhome-related websites).

As I observed earlier in this thread, if a motorhome's registration certificate MUST carry VASP and CARAVANE to benefit from Rouen's ZFE exemption, then UK-registered motorhomes cannot comply with this rule.

(Incidentally, my understanding is that, for a vehicle to have a French registration document with VASP and CARAVANE on it, the vehicle's Gross Vehicle Weight must not exceed 3500kg.) 

Perhaps Rouen's authorities are not going to police this rule super-strictly, or will treat non-French-registered motorhomes differently - who knows?

[teccer1234]

1 hour ago, Derek Uzzell said:

This 1 September 2022 file details Rouen's ZFE 'exemption' rules

https://www.metropole-rouen-normandie.fr/sites/default/files/2022-09/Les_derogations_V20220901_3.pdf

There's no doubt that the exemption for a motorhome ("autocaravane" in French) demands that the vehicle's registration document be marked "VASP" AND 'CARAVANE" (and not "VASP" OR 'CARAVANE" as I've seen stated on some French motorhome-related websites).

As I observed earlier in this thread, if a motorhome's registration certificate MUST carry VASP and CARAVANE to benefit from Rouen's ZFE exemption, then UK-registered motorhomes cannot comply with this rule.

(Incidentally, my understanding is that, for a vehicle to have a French registration document with VASP and CARAVANE on it, the vehicle's Gross Vehicle Weight must not exceed 3500kg.) 

Perhaps Rouen's authorities are not going to police this rule super-strictly, or will treat non-French-registered motorhomes differently - who knows?

maybe Jefferson Campervan with his great knowledge of French language might query this with the Rouen department, but in his question to the French he did state that he was driving a dutch campervan ???

[Derek Uzzell]

As was stated above, Jefferson Campervan's question (in French) to the Rouen ZFE Department translates to English as follows:

"Please excuse my French.
 
 I'm a Canadian who drives south every winter from the Netherlands in a 2001 Hymer motorhome. I always go via the A28, crossing Rouen to the A13 towards Evreux/Chartres.
 
 With the new ZFE, I don't see a legal route to drive from the A28 in the north to the A13 in the south.
 
 My questions:
 
 1. Is there a route (for example the Rocades) that I can cross or circumvent Rouen legally?
 
 2. A magazine says there is a derogation for motorhomes, but I don't see that on the Rouen site.  Is there such a derogation?
 
 I look forward to your response - I want to make sure I'm not breaking any laws in Rouen.
 
 Thanks"

It might be assumed from this that his 2001 Hymer motorhome was Dutch-registered, but this was not explicitly stated.

The (translated) reply was

 

"Sir,

 You wanted to know if there was an exemption for motorhomes to drive in the ZFE-m of the Rouen Normandy Metropolis.

 We confirm that motorhomes are authorized to circulate in the ZFE-m by way of derogation, until June 30, 2024.

 Cordially

 The ZFE-m Team"

and this seems to say that the derogation lasting until 30 June 2024 applies to ALL motorhomes.

A simpler enquiry would have been 

Does the ZFE derogation lasting until 30 June 2024 apply to all motorhomes whether they are registered in France or in other countries? Does the derogation apply to heavy  motorhomes (camping-cars poids lourds avec un PTAC superieur a 3500kg).

[teccer1234]

18 minutes ago, Derek Uzzell said:

As

A simpler enquiry would have been 

Does the ZFE derogation lasting until 30 June 2024 apply to all motorhomes whether they are registered in France or in other countries? Does the derogation apply to heavy  motorhomes (camping-cars poids lourds avec un PTAC superieur a 3500kg).

maybe J C or somebody with good French language will ask that question.

[JeffersonCampervan]

I didn't know about the VASP /Caravane specification when I made my initial enquiry to Rouen . I made my enquiry well before Derek posted that detail. 

However, once I received the response I posted above, I replied to Rouen with the email below. I await their response and will report here if and when I receive one. 

"Thank you very much for your response.

May I ask for one point of clarification?

Does the motorhome derogation apply to foreign registered motorhomes as well as motorhomes registered in France? One article that I read says that the motorhome registration papers must contain the terms "VASP" or "caravane". Since my motorhome is registered in the Netherlands, it does not contain these specifications."

[teccer1234]

59 minutes ago, JeffersonCampervan said:

I didn't know about the VASP /Caravane specification when I made my initial enquiry to Rouen . I made my enquiry well before Derek posted that detail. 

However, once I received the response I posted above, I replied to Rouen with the email below. I await their response and will report here if and when I receive one. 

"Thank you very much for your response.

May I ask for one point of clarification?

Does the motorhome derogation apply to foreign registered motorhomes as well as motorhomes registered in France? One article that I read says that the motorhome registration papers must contain the terms "VASP" or "caravane". Since my motorhome is registered in the Netherlands, it does not contain these specifications."

well done, we hope you get a positive answer

[webby1]

Thanks for the work people have put in to try to resolve this matter. It would be great to get the answer that ALL motorhomes are included until June 2024.

However, on another site there is a similar thread that seems quite clear, including a map, that the 2 main routes through Rouen in red are actually exempt corridors.

Would be good to hear any observations about this, especially from those travelling through soon.

[JeffersonCampervan]

1 hour ago, webby1 said:

Thanks for the work people have put in to try to resolve this matter. It would be great to get the answer that ALL motorhomes are included until June 2024.

However, on another site there is a similar thread that seems quite clear, including a map, that the 2 main routes through Rouen in red are actually exempt corridors.

Would be good to hear any observations about this, especially from those travelling through soon.

I've seen this map from the green-zones app  and it apparently is inaccurate. Not only do these routes not appear on the official Rouen map, but go to a post of mine on from October 21 (page one of this thread) and you will see that these routes are singled out to be explictly included by Rouen in the ZFE, as if they expect that drivers will assume that they are excluded. Rouen did not answer my question about exempt routes, they only replied to my question regarding motorhomes. If there were exempt routes, that would be an easy one for them to answer. Regarding my follow up question regarding foreign motorhomes, they acknowledged receipt of my email  on November 2 and said: "Receipt of your message is acknowledged.The ZFE-m Team will study it as soon as possible." 

Since then, nothing. 

[webby1]

So there is still a lot of confusion...............you will see from the other thread that people there are also " clear " about the meaning of the restrictions.

I must admit I did think what is the point of having a clean air zone and then having polluting lorries and motorhomes driving right throught the middle of it.

But then is this idea of a corridor a complete fantasy or fake news

What e mail address did you use @JeffersonCampervan and I suggest those of us who have concerns contact and ask........"what on earth is going on ...please will you stupid people tell us clearly what are the restrictions on driving through your city........ which we have to do to get somewhere better"

Perhaps use Google translate and write it more politely😁😉

[JeffersonCampervan]

2 hours ago, webby1 said:

So there is still a lot of confusion...............you will see from the other thread that people there are also " clear " about the meaning of the restrictions.

I must admit I did think what is the point of having a clean air zone and then having polluting lorries and motorhomes driving right throught the middle of it.

But then is this idea of a corridor a complete fantasy or fake news

What e mail address did you use @JeffersonCampervan and I suggest those of us who have concerns contact and ask........"what on earth is going on ...please will you stupid people tell us clearly what are the restrictions on driving through your city........ which we have to do to get somewhere better"

Perhaps use Google translate and write it more politely😁😉

The Motorhome Fun thread hasn't had a post since mid-September - and this only kicked in on September 1. There's no reason to believe that the EU green-zones map is accurate at all. 

We had the same discussion on the Hymer Facebook group. One of the members asked EU green-zones about it on their Twitter page. Here's the response :

"Green-Zones.eu liked your Tweet
@GreenZonesEU Could you please
check that the regulations concerning
Rouen, France is up to date. Since
September 1st 2022 Rouen indicates t..

Green-Zones.eu @GreenZones.
1h
Replying to
Checked. Evaluated. Fixed. Will be
released in the next update. Thank you
for pointing this out "

 

I put my request in through the City of Rouen contact site. 

https://mrn.metropole-rouen-normandie.fr/ma-metropole

It takes some navigation - IIRC I used drop down menu Rouen - Diverse - Other and it was then routed to the ZFE Department. 

[Derek Uzzell]

A part of the website mentioned in the last posting deals with Rouen's 'clean-air' zone

https://www.metropole-rouen-normandie.fr/zone-faibles-emissions-mobilite

This map is provided

[webby1]

Excellent detective work Jefferson........ you're a Starship not a Campervan

So really those of us with older vans are just waiting to hear if this exemption until 2024 will apply to all motorhomes or just French registered. I'm sure you'll let us know.

The route through Yvetot described on the Fun thread looks as though its a good alternative. 

[simians]

On 11/13/2022 at 9:40 AM, webby1 said:

Thanks for the work people have put in to try to resolve this matter. It would be great to get the answer that ALL motorhomes are included until June 2024.

However, on another site there is a similar thread that seems quite clear, including a map, that the 2 main routes through Rouen in red are actually exempt corridors.

Would be good to hear any observations about this, especially from those travelling through soon.

That is the map showing the routes I have used for decades, except for poorly signposted detours down to the Pont Mathilde rebuild due to fire damage lasting a couple of years.

Applyingand relying on French logic! I wouldn't think there'd be any intention to make non complying vehicles take detours involving many extra kilometres (I could be wrong), and possibly through other built up densely populated areas. It appears sensible to permit these major routes as practical through route exempt corridors, after all they pass predominantly through light industrial areas and railway shunting yards, not much in the way of dwellings or heavily pedestrianised areas.

Anyway its my intention to traverse Rouen via these routes, the alternative of obtaining definitive advice/Info on the forums looks a bit of a forlorn hope to me! 

[webby1]

Those are also the routes we use through Rouen and by all means continue to use them. As far as I am concerned the definitive advice on this Forum is that for older motorhomes (Crit 4)there is no route through.

I appreciate the information from Jefferson and others, particularly that the corridors through no longer exist and the Green APP have corrected their mistake.

[Derek Uzzell]

Out of idle curiosity I have also messaged the Rouen authorities (using the tortuous route Jefferson helpfully described above).

I said (in French)

I understand that, until June 30, 2024, vehicles of the type 'motorhome' bearing the words “VASP” and “Caravane” on the registration certificate are authorized to circulate inside the Rouen ZFE.

I live in England and my motorhome is registered here. Its registration certificate bears neither "VASP" nor "Caravane".

Are motorhomes registered in England allowed to circulate inside the Rouen ZFE until June 30, 2024?

If so, are motorhomes with a GVW greater than 3500kg (heavyweight motorhomes) also allowed to circulate inside the Rouen ZFE until June 30, 2024?

Whether I receive a response remains to be seen...

[webby1]

There is a list of derogations on one of the documents referred to above Halfway down page 5 it states, in French of course

Specialized motor vehicles as defined in appendix 5 of the decree of 9 February 2009 relating to vehicle registration procedures, bearing the mention "VASP" on the registration certificate or "VTSU" on the gray card, with the exception of motor homes; ▪

Derek why not post the e mail address and some of us can send a similar request. In fact why not post the translation as well and surely we'll get a response🤣

I'm sure we'll get there in the end....................but I'm taking a different route