Engine battery draining while traveling, technical help please

[John52]

Its possible to carefully move the connections without disconnecting the battery

But I would prefer the battery disconnected because it might clear the computers memory of its state of charge

(the computer wrongly thinks the battery is fully charged - because of all the current thats gone into those 4 wires and not come back out)

[Goneoff]

Am I correct in assuming that it is the two white wires that you are referring to and that I should leave the large and smaller brown wires intact? In doing so, could there be any detrimental effect to any of the electrical system?  

I will have to wait until we move offsite and travel, a reasonable distance in order to see if the uncoupling did resolve the issue of the engine, battery not charging. If it did resolve the problem could these two wires be left off the terminal permanently for the reminder of our holiday or would this be unadvisable?

Thank you. 

[Keithl]

8 minutes ago, Goneoff said:

Am I correct in assuming that it is the two white wires that you are referring to...

No. Below the brown wires you can see the current sensor and on the LH end there is a small plug with two then wires. Remove this plug and then see what happens.

For info the white wires are the ground connections for the trailer light module.

[onecal]

Hi

You can easily disconnect the trailer wiring without disturbing anything and as Keithl advises also remove the plug and check , recycle your ignition and start a few times and see what happens 

Regards

Edited August 29, 2023 by onecal

[Goneoff]

Keith/Onecal

As hopefully you can see from the pic I have disconnected the plug holding the two wires. However surely without a multimeter I will not be able to tell if it’s gone into default and charging the engine battery until I drive for a reasonable amount of miles or have I got that wrong? 

I’m currently on hook-up so the engine battery is fully charged. 

If unplugging these two wires did resolve the problem could the wires be left off the terminal permanently for the reminder of our holiday or would this be unadvisable?

By disconnecting/unplugging the wires could there be any detrimental effect to any of the electrical system?

Onecal: why would I want to disconnect the tow bar wiring at this stage?

Many thanks 

[Keithl]

Can you pick up a cheap multimeter locally? In the UK the likes of Screwfix, Toolstation or B&Q have models for under a tenner. Something must be available there?

Next time you start the engine can you watch the voltage through your app? As long as it does not exceed around 14.3 to 14.4 Volts you should be ok for the drive home. It may set a fault code and/or the EML but this can be sorted later as you will know why it was illuminated so no fault finding required.

Let us know how you get on please.

Keith.

[Goneoff]

10 minutes ago, Keithl said:

Can you pick up a cheap multimeter locally? In the UK the likes of Screwfix, Toolstation or B&Q have models for under a tenner. Something must be available there?

Next time you start the engine can you watch the voltage through your app? As long as it does not exceed around 14.3 to 14.4 Volts you should be ok for the drive home. It may set a fault code and/or the EML but this can be sorted later as you will know why it was illuminated so no fault finding required.

Let us know how you get on please.

Keith.

Certainly will let you know. 
Many thanks 

[Goneoff]

54 minutes ago, Keithl said:

Can you pick up a cheap multimeter locally? In the UK the likes of Screwfix, Toolstation or B&Q have models for under a tenner. Something must be available there?

Next time you start the engine can you watch the voltage through your app? As long as it does not exceed around 14.3 to 14.4 Volts you should be ok for the drive home. It may set a fault code and/or the EML but this can be sorted later as you will know why it was illuminated so no fault finding required.

Let us know how you get on please.

Keith.

Will be on the hunt for a multimeter tomorrow; if I can’t find locally will see if Amazon IT will deliver one to the campsite 

Thank you 

[Keithl]

Or look for one which plugs into the cigarette lighter socket so you can watch it while driving.

[John52]

2 hours ago, Goneoff said:

Keith/Onecal

As hopefully you can see from the pic I have disconnected the plug holding the two wires. However surely without a multimeter I will not be able to tell if it’s gone into default and charging the engine battery until I drive for a reasonable amount of miles or have I got that wrong? 

I’m currently on hook-up so the engine battery is fully charged. 

If unplugging these two wires did resolve the problem could the wires be left off the terminal permanently for the reminder of our holiday or would this be unadvisable?

By disconnecting/unplugging the wires could there be any detrimental effect to any of the electrical system?

Onecal: why would I want to disconnect the tow bar wiring at this stage?

Many thanks 

All I can say is mine is the same as yours, and I have run without that plug in with no ill effects.  Other than the yellow check engine light coming on to say the start/stop is not working (because the computer doesn't know whether the battery is sufficiently charged to keep restarting the engine). This was cured by plugging it back in.  It may also be necessary to clear the fault codes - a cheap code reader will do it.   Also a good idea to disconnect the battery for a few minutes so the computer clears its memory of the battery state of charge.

[John52]

1 hour ago, Keithl said:

As long as it does not exceed around 14.3 to 14.4 Volts

That would be so for a standard alternator.

But this is a 'smart alternator' - mine goes over 15 volts sometimes with regenerative braking - this is normal.

Thats why you really need a voltmeter you can easily see from the driving seat to check it under regenerative braking. It only charges to something like 80 % capacity with normal engine running.  Then tops it up with regenerative braking.  If the battery gets charged to 100% with regenerative braking or hookup, and you start the engine you may well find its not charging - even discharging slightly. Until you take your foot off the pedal and the momentum is turning the engine.  Thats why you really need to see the voltage when you are driving.

[Keithl]

13 minutes ago, John52 said:

Also a good idea to disconnect the battery for a few minutes...

But Phil doesn't want to do this as he doesn't have the code for the radio with him and uses it as his SatNav!

[Goneoff]

32 minutes ago, Keithl said:

But Phil doesn't want to do this as he doesn't have the code for the radio with him and uses it as his SatNav!

Quite right, ideally I don’t want to disconnect the battery as I will lose my satnav, CarPlay, radio etc. 

Cheers

Phil

[John52]

11 hours ago, Goneoff said:

Quite right, ideally I don’t want to disconnect the battery as I will lose my satnav, CarPlay, radio etc. 

Cheers

Phil

You really need to find that code because sooner or later you will have to disconnect the battery for something

All mine have been 4 digit numbers - like a bank card pin.

[Labby]

Goneoff , have you  checked that you need a code for your model of Pioneer system as the manual for some types say you would only need to use the reset button after battery disconnection .

[Goneoff]

10 hours ago, Labby said:

Goneoff , have you  checked that you need a code for your model of Pioneer system as the manual for some types say you would only need to use the reset button after battery disconnection .

Thanks for the info, I have downloaded the manual for my Pioneer head unit so will check when I get back to the van. 

phil

[Goneoff]

15 hours ago, John52 said:

You really need to find that code because sooner or later you will have to disconnect the battery for something

All mine have been 4 digit numbers - like a bank card pin.

Yes I had a credit plastic card with the Pioneer 4 digit code written on the back for our previous 2013 Laika. However I spoke this morning with a technician at Camper U.K. and he said the Pioneer head unit would’ve been initially setup by the original buyer with a password when they first purchased the van from them. Apparently they stopped using codes a few years ago that’s why I couldn’t find one. I finally contacted the previous owner and he said it was already set up when he purchased the van out of the showroom but Camper U.K. also said they never set them up themselves ever but added I maybe lucky if it was a factory set up it may not need a password. So sounds a bit like Russian roulette situation. 

On the positive side I’ve ordered a cigarette voltage monitor and multimeter from Amazon providing of course they deliver to our current camp site in Italy and not our home in Leicestershire. 

[John52]

I don't know who made the O/E radio/media system that came with my Dec 2020 manufactured Ducato

All the documentation and the display panel only says Fiat on it.

The 4 digit code is on a label stuck on the front of the instruction book

I also needed a 4 digit code for the O/E CD/Radio in my X2/50 Citroen Relay after battery disconnection

So I assumed you would need a 4 digit code too

But it doesn't have sat nav so is different to yours

You might not need a code then? - I don't know.

[Goneoff]

I’ve decided to bite the bullet today, plug back the two wires into the shunt/current sensor, and move all 4 wires over to the other side as suggested although I won’t know the outcome until we move off our current site and cover a reasonable amount of miles as we are on hook-up so both habitation and engine batteries are full. As for the Pioneer head unit after speaking with Camper U.K, the previous owner and Pioneer themselves the situation is inconclusive. If the Pioneer doesn’t fire up without a password after the battery disconnect I will buy a phone mount and use google maps until we get home. Having said that Pioneer in the UK said they would try and talk me through setting it back up. I now have a voltage check from Amazon slotted into the cab 12v socket. So hopefully should be able to see what’s going on. You guys who have contributed sound confident this could be my problem and after reading through all your comments so do I. However we will get Vanbitz to check everything out when we return to the U.K. end of Sep/early Oct on our way back to Leicestershire.

I will report back when I have the necessary information to confirm all is well or otherwise. 

Many thanks again 

[Goneoff]

I have now moved the wires off the battery post to behind the shunt/current sensor. After all the phone calls the Pioneer head unit was a nonevent it fired up immediately retaining everything so it must have a memory/battery somewhere. The time on the dashboard does require resetting as one of you had flagged. The only negative was the Moving Intelligence/Phantom alarm going off and them ringing me a couple of times. The engine started but as I mentioned on the previous post I won’t know the outcome until we move off our current site and cover a reasonable amount of miles as we are on hook-up so both habitation and engine batteries are full. When the engine was idling the voltage on the new cigarette plug measure was 9.3v which from what you guys have said is to be expected as the battery is full.

Thank you 

[John52]

2 hours ago, Goneoff said:

When the engine was idling the voltage on the new cigarette plug measure was 9.3v which from what you guys have said is to be expected as the battery is full.

??

Should be at least 12 volts on idling

(but may drop to 9.3v momentarily when starting)

Have you got a good connection?

Any muck in the cigarette lighter socket?

Clean it out with a bit of wood or something else non conductive

Then screw the plug around in it to get a better connection

[Goneoff]

2 hours ago, John52 said:

??

Should be at least 12 volts on idling

(but may drop to 9.3v momentarily when starting)

Have you got a good connection?

Any muck in the cigarette lighter socket?

Clean it out with a bit of wood or something else non conductive

Then screw the plug around in it to get a better connection

To be honest I only had the engine running momentarily as the Tesa jacks were screaming in the van as we are pitched on an incline and the neighbours had only just got over the alarm that I had inflicted on them. I will get a better fix on voltage when we move off site on Monday. Will post results soonest. Thanks again 

[Goneoff]

On 01/09/2023 at 18:55, Goneoff said:

To be honest I only had the engine running momentarily as the Tesa jacks were screaming in the van as we are pitched on an incline and the neighbours had only just got over the alarm that I had inflicted on them. I will get a better fix on voltage when we move off site on Monday. Will post results soonest. Thanks again 

I’m afraid it’s all a bit inconclusive, we have only driven 4/5 miles to our next site; watching the cigarette socket voltmeter during the drive was a rollercoaster it ranged from lows of 11.9 to highs of 14.3 nothing was stable or consistent but when we arrived at our destination the battery had gone down to 12.3 although I should add a large portion of our short journey was done in long Italian traffic queues. Having said that one would have thought it would be around 12.6 at least but that’s me guessing.
Moving all four wires over from the negative terminal has had no detrimental effect on the cab electrics, no warning lights on the dash, start stop was functioning, only the time needed resetting and as I mentioned earlier the Pioneer head unit fired up requiring no password or code, remembering all it’s settings along with coordinate history. I think any meaningful test will have to be done on a longer run in approximately 6 days time. I don’t know if any of you can draw any sort of conclusion from this short journey, I certainly can’t. 

[onecal]

Hi

Are you pulling a trailer or using a trailer board for scooter /bikes ?

Regards

[Goneoff]

12 minutes ago, onecal said:

Hi

Are you pulling a trailer or using a trailer board for scooter /bikes ?

Regards

No not pulling a trailer or nor do I have a trailer board. As I mentioned earlier in this chain the MH has a tow bar fitted but it hasn’t or isn’t being used.