Are A-Class Hymer Models engine repair more expensive to repair because of limited access

[onecal]

Hi

Just had a club member on to me regarding changing a glow plug in his engine (Mercedes Sprinter) , He was quoted an outrageous labor price and when he questioned the costs , he was informed it was because of such limited access to the engine ?

Has anyone else come across this situation ?

Regards

[TeamRienza]

For several years now I have used a local mechanic for both of my cars and our A class B598 Hymer on a Fiat engine.

He and his son are trusted mechanics who will do work and offer opinions on what may or may not need further investigation or remedy.

Because they are a two man outfit, their charges are not exorbitant and as a result of this I tend to add 10% on to the bill (the biscuit fund) which also means I get very prompt and attentive service including free consultations and minor repairs etc. The father is an active motorhomer and they do service and repair for a handful of owners of various vans. They do sometimes comment on the difficulty of access on A class, but usually if it is buried at the rear of the engine compartment, but they don’t appear to charge extra. In fact the prices they charge (for work on my cars too) frequently surprises me, hence the decent tip that I give.

examples 2021 

Timing belt kit;

timing belt, tensioner, idle wheel, pulls wheel, water pump, power steering belt and air con belt.    £560

2022

Full service, all oils and filters, grease Alko axle, rear brakes greased and adjusted, new temperature sensor, headlight alignment, batteries tested, headlight alignment checked and general inspection for upcoming MOT (government test centres in N Ireland) £280

Davy

[onecal]

Hi Davy

Thanks for that ,  I was amazed what they were quoted for changing a glow plug , but the couple have made contact with me again and they got three quotes and all were very close in price (€1100/€1250 over £1000 ???? ) 

I really don't think access is that bad , or is it?

Regards

[Keithl]

3 minutes ago, onecal said:

I really don't think access is that bad , or is it?

It depends on which engine they have!

What year/chassis model is it built on?

[onecal]

Hi Keith 

OM642 , Yes it's a 6 cylinder , V6 2011 A little awkward, but not that bad ,  I was going to inform them Glow plug module may need to be updated , but as they are in shock I said i better not 

Regards

[davidmac]

Hi needed a replacement turbocharger on my A class Rapido v6 merc . Because of where the turbo is,at the rear of the v , the gearbox had to come out so quite a hefty labour bill. The 642 was fitted in saloon cars, apparently take the bonnet off , same jobs an easy one.
Regards David 

[BruceM]

If the work can take place from beneath the vehicle I’d not expect the cost to be any greater. However if through a ‘letterbox’ bonnet it may be another matter. I know from my own experience that I have to be something of a contortionist to even get my head through the bonnet space to reach some parts – eg something as simple as changing the engine air filter. I’d fully expect a mechanic to price in the extra time involved to gain access especially if they’re charging £130/hr or more.

[onecal]

Hi David,

Thanks for that , I understand the Turbo on the OM 642 is not so nice , Not sure why the gearbox needed removal though! , but as this is just a glow plug, the quote the couple received sounds a really hefty labour bill for just that, no matter how difficult access is on an A-Class motorhome or what engine may be fitted 

Thanks again

Regards

[onecal]

Hi Bruce M

Yes I suppose that's another angle to it  (pardon the pun)  Maybe some of these guys are finding them difficult to work on  and maybe they do not want the work? 

Thanks again

Regards

Edited February 6 by onecal

[davidmac]

Hi I think engine access is more difficult on an A class especially with the north south layout of a Mercedes. If you could train up an octopus it could probably replace the 642 turbo without removing the gearbox but it would need to be exceptionally strong as it needed a three foot breaker bar to undo the three bolts holding the turbo on. The 642 has a 12lt sump capacity and to fill the engine you need either a three foot hose and a funnel or use a one liter bottle twelve times, impossible to get a five liter container anywhere near the filler. Access to the cooling system top up is also quite limited 

Regards David 

[onecal]

Hi David

Thanks for that , I never replaced a turbo on a A Class but have replaced quite a few over the years on the sprinters (OM 642 engines)  always without removing the gearbox I had no idea they were that tight with poor access on the A Class. 

So have these guys justification so charging these prices for repair? , For a heater plug though??? 

Thanks for that

Regards

Brendan 

Edited February 6 by onecal

[Derek Uzzell]

There is a fair amount of on-line advice/discussion/videos about replacing glow-plugs (GPs) on the OM642 motor, including on A-class motorhomes.

Besides inaccessibility (with it being asked in one discussion whether the bulkhead between the cab and engine compartment could be removed to reach the rearmost GPs!) the risk always emphasised is that a GP might break off during the removal process and - if this happens - it may be VERY expensive to get the broken GP out. If the over-£1000 quotes onecal mentions are factoring in that risk, then perhaps they are not excessive. Or - as onecal has mooted - the quotes have been deliberately inflated to discourage the motorhome owner from agreeing to have the work done.

(The OM642 motor has one GP per cylinder, and received wisdom seems to be that all 6 GPs should be changed if one GP has failed. It's also suggested that the motor doesn't need all 6 GPs to start OK and that it might be better not to risk GP-breakage unless the vehicle is to be driven in very cold weather.)

[Globebuster1]

I think it's clear that all A class vans are more difficult to work on, and I think the owner has to factor that in [along with windscreen replacement] when purchasing.

Every little task is more tedious with an A class - for example I have to remove the bonnet - if you can call it that, just to refill the screen wash.

I guess your average busy garage takes one look at an A class, and thinks no thanks.

You just need to find a nice old school mechanic who likes a challenge, and has a sense of humour!

To me the implications of owning an A class, are outweighed by the driving comfort and vista when driving, and the benefits once on site.

[onecal]

Hi Derek , Globebuster1 

Thanks for your replies ,  I think I am getting the feeling no matter what engine is used , service groups are shying away because of poor access (at least that is what my friends were told)  I would have no issue.

Indeed as Derek has pointed out maybe the service dept' is actually factoring in plug breakage , With the right tools and correct technique and a little patience it's not difficult on the sprinters , again though I am beginning to see it may be difficult maybe with a small bonnet to try and gain access to same, I personally have never repaired one within an A Class  I will be chatting them  later this week and ask was maybe impending G.P breakage mentioned to them. interesting   

Regarding the OM 642 , Derek ,  All glow plugs indeed do need to function , otherwise a regen' will not go through its start cycle  This is part of the protocol and will lead to more issues down the line with maybe blocked DPF

Bulkhead or firewall access  may be a beneficial move if things are that tight as Derek points out in previous post 

Globuster1, as you point out , of course Poor service (engine top  end)  access is only one drawback and we must also acknowledge how nice the A Class can be both on site and off

Many thanks for both your input

I shall pass on same

I think they are still in shock over the price just to replace "One Glow plug"

Regards 

[onecal]

Hi All,

Thanks for all your replies , I will be talking to them over the weekend and keep you updated as to the outcome of their issues 

Many thanks 

[onecal]

Hi

Just an update ,

None of the service groups they contacted mentioned anything about breakage of the glow plug (single) on removal. They were just informed by all when questioned about the high price of repair that it was down to very poor access to the engine 

Has anyone else with an A class motorhome come across this ?

On chatting I told them it would be good practice to replace all six and the control module along with the red turbo seal thus preventing further headaches with same down the road

Regards

Edited February 12 by onecal

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2017 Practical Motorhome article is by Dave Newell who used to regularly participate on this forum.

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/how-much-will-my-motorhomes-service-cost

Dave states that his labour-charge rate (in 2017) was £50 per hour, but I've seen recent comments on motorhome forums mentioning labour-charge rates of up to £120 per hour. 

And in this 2011 O&AL forum thread Dave specifically refers to difficult engine access for A-class motorhomes fitted with the Mercedes-Benz V6 motor. 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/23481-engine-access-on-a-class-motorhomes/

Presumably the A-class motorhome owner who is complaining about the cost of a glow-plug change was not just given simplistic over-€1000 quotes, but was provided with a breakdown showing the cost of the parts that would be fitted and the cost of the labour involved.? 

[Brian Kirby]

I wonder if this may help.  It is reputedly a Hymer B660 SL with the Mercedes V6 engive. 

Access to the engine bay is via the bonnet/hatch panel immediately below the windscreen.  I do not know whether on this particular model the hatch hinges up, or has to be removed, for access to the engine.

Inside the van, an extensive fixed "dashboard" shelf extends from the base of the windscreen to the instrument panel.  There is no working access to the engine bay from within the van.

So, allowing that the radiator is sited immediately behind the front grille, the front end of the engine will already be set back beneath that shelf, with the rear end of the engine correspondingly further back again.  The top of the engine is therefore only accessible by reaching back across the radiator and below the shelf.  That, compared to the access available on a standard sprinter is very tight, especially when one considers that on a standard sprinter the entire "bonnet" can be removed to gain better access.  

Access to transverse engines is generally easier - providing no access is required to the rear of the engine block, in which case this must be from below with the van raised on a hoist.

I seem to remember one workshop manager commenting that for anything much more complex than normal servicing, the best and quickest way to access the engines of A Class vans was to remove them to a workbench. 

In the case under discussion, with good working access required to the cylinder heads of both banks to replace all six (apparently difficult to remove/reinstall) glow-plugs in a proper manner, I can readily imagine a workshop taking the same line in the interests of risk reduction.  The risks being that awkward access and restricted working space heighten the risk of either some phase of the work hitting a problem that ultimately requires engine removal, or that the restricted access results in an unsatisfactory job that eventually results in the van being returned for remedy.

In this case, I think One Cal's friend has been extremely unfortunate in suffering an engine related fault in which the combination of conventional A Class van body design and longitudinal engine orientation conspire together  to create a very expensive remedy.

As Derek says above, surely the van owner has been given some explanation as to why the job justifies such a high cost for what, at first sight, might appear a "simple" job.  After all, they have obtained three separate estimates, all in much the same ball park, which strongly suggests that £1,000 + is a realistic (albeit costly) reflection of the cost of the job at today's labour rates.

If he doesn't have any detail of the basis for the estimates, perhaps, as a precursor to commissioning the work, he should ask the workshops to explain how they propose executing the work, and what it is that is causing such high labour charges.  Then, at least he'd know what he is paying for, and why.

[onecal]

Hi Brian 

Thanks for that, I shall pass it on to them .

I think the shock they got was because to them it was for only for one glow plug. I think they just wanted the fault light on the dash off and ensuring all was ok with all plugs working.

From my conversation on the phone with them , they were just informed when he asked why it was so expensive , to be told it was because  the limited poor access on those models?  That as they tell me was indeed from three workshops???

I agree they have been very unfortunate Brian to have this happen in an A Class  motorhome and I just wonder has this happened to many more . The plugs themselves are not that difficult to remove and with the correct tools and knowledge and a little patience breakage should not be a problem ,at least not on the Sprinters or other models this OM 642 is fitted with .Again I have not replaced any myself on an A Class,  

I have informed them they should replace all six and the glow plug module especially when doing the repair at present and not to have to repeated over again and ensuring all computer protocols work correctly. 

Thanks Brian

Brendan

[onecal]

Hi 

Thanks to all for your replies 

Just got some feedback from others in our club and abroad ,looks like this problem is far from unique to the OM642 engine or just Hymer A Class motorhomes and may have put many off from purchasing them again   . These are the swings and roundabouts and only one drawback of servicing  a lovely model of motorhome. 

I will keep you informed of their outcome

Regards

[Thai Bry]

18 hours ago, onecal said:

Hi 

Thanks to all for your replies 

Just got some feedback from others in our club and abroad ,looks like this problem is far from unique to the OM642 engine or just Hymer A Class motorhomes and may have put many off from purchasing them again   . These are the swings and roundabouts and only one drawback of servicing  a lovely model of motorhome. 

I will keep you informed of their outcome

Regards

As people will know, we've had our Hymer from new since 2007.

As Brian & Derek have stated, there is very limited room to work on the engine, due to the design of the "A class" front bonnet. It's awkward for me to check the oil levels when the bonnet is open. Very little access to the engine compartment. 

We once had the starter battery replaced, at a Mercedes commercial garage, and it took nearly 1 1/2 hrs.

We now have our van serviced at "Van Care" in leeds, who are a Mercedes commercial van expert. In fact the company was set up by a former worker at Mercedes commercial in Leeds.

The "A" class vans are a lot more difficult to work on due to the limited access to the engine bay. Maybe that's why there is a premium for working on these kinds of motorhomes. 

[onecal]

Hi

Yes that is the consensus for the top end servicing as they are way too tight .Bottom servicing of the A Class  as like Sprinter etc' should not be any issue . Starter battery should be no issue as it can be accessed from the inside the footwell ? (Unless changed on that model) Sadly shoe horning in such a big engine looks like a major issue on the A Class .Such a pity for such a lovely motorhome. Again these are the swings and roundabouts of owning  one the main thing is get enjoyment from it . I agree of course the cost will be higher as it becomes more time consuming to access the service parts like fuel filter. air filter, Glow plugs, injectors, EGR cooler, Turbo seal, etc' but i think the premium may be just a little high and a lot of workshops may not want the work 

Glad to hear  had yours since 2007 and hopefully you will have many more years of happy trouble free motorhoming within. 

Many thanks for your reply

Brendan

[Derek Uzzell]

This 2017 MotorHomeFun thread may be of interest

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/advice-needed-how-to-remove-starter-battery-from-a-2006-hymer.151828/

[onecal]

Hi

Not really as the photo shows , it is the old model 1999/2004 (late) I think and Right hand drive (making it a bigger mess of a job on an A-Class) . I think that has been superseded by the battery under the floor inside passenger well (or in the case of a R/H drive,as in photo, Drivers side) The battery in there years ago was definitely a mess without doubt . I think that was upgraded to under the floor in the late 2006 models or very early 2007.

So one would think Thai Bry 2007 model would have been situated under the floor in the passenger footwell.. Of course  as we all know motorhomes built much later may have been built on older chassis . That  can be the cause other issues sometimes 

I think my friends are going to sell theirs on their return , they really just can't get over the cost of top end servicing the glow plugs on their A Class motorhome that they love 

We may be able to help on their return 

Many thanks to all that replied 

I will keep you all informed on their outcome 

In the meantime enjoy your motorhome , lots of groups out there that will help one another out and keep down the costs 

Regards

[Thai Bry]

12 hours ago, onecal said:

Hi

Not really as the photo shows , it is the old model 1999/2004 (late) I think and Right hand drive (making it a bigger mess of a job on an A-Class) . I think that has been superseded by the battery under the floor inside passenger well (or in the case of a R/H drive,as in photo, Drivers side) The battery in there years ago was definitely a mess without doubt . I think that was upgraded to under the floor in the late 2006 models or very early 2007.

So one would think Thai Bry 2007 model would have been situated under the floor in the passenger footwell.. Of course  as we all know motorhomes built much later may have been built on older chassis . That  can be the cause other issues sometimes 

I think my friends are going to sell theirs on their return , they really just can't get over the cost of top end servicing the glow plugs on their A Class motorhome that they love 

We may be able to help on their return 

Many thanks to all that replied 

I will keep you all informed on their outcome 

In the meantime enjoy your motorhome , lots of groups out there that will help one another out and keep down the costs 

Regards

Our 416 Mercedes  twin axle but has 4 rear wheels, on rear axle - eventhough 1st Registered in 2007 - was the one in a special Blue colour and the last of the design with a "Bar layout". With blue and cream velvet chairs.

I've been told bt engineers at M B,  it's one of the best engines made by M B , as it has a metal timing belt and is also a "5 pot" engine. 

However the starter battery is situated as per the photo in Derek's link 

Edited February 18 by Thai Bry