Guest Tracker Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I am pleased to report two very successful days of spreading the word at Pickering and an even better success of couple of really irritated salesmen who will, with luck, mention it to their bosses who might in turn, with luck, complain to Fiat? We live in hope. On the down side we have seen a lot of new vans with sold signs on the windows - hope they know what they are all doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Tracker - 2008-09-20 7:26 PM ..........On the down side we have seen a lot of new vans with sold signs on the windows - hope they know what they are all doing?.......... I doubt it tracker - there are hundreds of us out there who had a dream and couldn't see past the decor the first time around - most salesmen will never illuminate the prospective customer with 'side' issues such as this fatal design flaw, inadequate payload or even law breaking issues such as a vehicle that the prospective buyer cannot drive on his/her licence. This and other forums are essential for such people but, again, most will not find them until after the event. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayjsj Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I can see this forum being filled with letters from poor 'innocents' for years to come about failing gearboxes on 'Prize-winning' Sevel vehicles, Just like the 'Failing 5th Gear' on the previous chassis. Does 'Customer satisfaction' mean nothing at Fiat ?? All the old jokes come to mind ' Fix it Again Tony' ' Fix it Again Tomorrow'. 'Don't Touch them with a Bargepole' or 'They don't Do 'Backwards' Would make good slogans for the T-shirts ??? under an official Fiat Badge Sod the litigation ! Is this going to be the worst kept secret in Motorhoming ? Sorry friend,but their second -hand value is ALREADY affected. :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontiki Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 At the Shepton show I asked any salesman that offered to help about the 'judder problem' some of the answers: What judder Blown out of all proportion by one or two individuals Bad driving Driving style If there is a problem Fiat will fix it It happens with all heavy vehicles when reversing It's only a problem reversing on steep hills (unfortunately we live in Wales) I don't know if I've done the right thing but I have bought a van based on the Renault Master so I don't know what problems I'm in for. I did see on the Renault site that they give a 3 year warranty but when I rang Renault UK I was told first of all the warranty was from the date of conversion not registration & it was only 2 years on a motorhome conversion >:-( I'm kicking myself for not finding out the full information before I bought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myshell Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Hi Andy Just received this months edition of the Camping & Caravaning Club magazine, in the Tech Talk section compiled by Barry Norris, the first question is regarding juddergate on a Fiat, but Barry answered the question quoting Peugeot's solution to this problem, however the last sentence is interesting "Fiat is hoping to announce its solution shortly". Is this a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel, or is a just a Fiat customer service pratt trying to find his way out using a flashlight ? Get the T-shirts printed, I'll buy one off you. Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmbeedee Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Rayjsj - 2008-09-20 9:07 PM failing gearboxes on 'Prize-winning' Sevel vehicles, Just like the 'Failing 5th Gear' on the previous chassis. What is the problem with the previous gearbox? I've not heard about this before & because of the judder on the current version am considering the previous model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 emmbeedee - 2008-09-21 8:48 AM Rayjsj - 2008-09-20 9:07 PM failing gearboxes on 'Prize-winning' Sevel vehicles, Just like the 'Failing 5th Gear' on the previous chassis. What is the problem with the previous gearbox? I've not heard about this before & because of the judder on the current version am considering the previous model. Michael, every M/H base vehicle on the market has had a problem at some point. If you look at any car forum on the internet it is full of problems, that is the nature of forums. Any problem with a previous model will have been sorted out, one advantage of buying secondhand. I note the Sevel portion of the M/H market is now 75% and people like Hymer are adding this base to model ranges that did not have them in the past, the M/H industry obviously has faith in them. Now Fiat have to sort out the owners who have problems with their current vehicle and I have no doubt that eventually they will. The situation is a bad one if you have a problem but most do not and are happy with their vans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Rupert suggests every M/H has had a problem in the past, I don't doubt that but I based my vehicle selection on forum comments and the types that ARE NOT well advertised in the for sale columns. In the past my comments have not been welcome regarding FIAT. Just because a large number of an item is produced does not automatically qualify it as being a 'good' product . I'm a realist and will avoid FIAT even more in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argyler Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 A piece in the Caravan Club Magazine this month and also the latest Caravan and Camping Club magazine says that Peugeot have at last owned up to the problem. Existing vans can have their electronics reset to give more torque lower down. New gearboxes will be supplied with lower reverse gear for motorhomes. No mention of recalls though or who pays for any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 libby - 2008-09-21 2:44 PM Rupert suggests every M/H has had a problem in the past, I don't doubt that but I based my vehicle selection on forum comments and the types that ARE NOT well advertised in the for sale columns. In the past my comments have not been welcome regarding FIAT. Just because a large number of an item is produced does not automatically qualify it as being a 'good' product . I'm a realist and will avoid FIAT even more in the future. My bad way of putting things. I meant every manufacturer has had problems, not every M/H. Types not advertised are types that have not sold in the first place, of course there are more Fiats advertised, there are more Fiat based vehicles sold than the rest put together and have been for some years now, so it follows their are more secondhand ones. When large numbers are produced and continue to be so it usually means it is a good product, otherwise they would not sell. Why on earth would the major producers of M/H's continue to increase their use of Fiat if they had no confidence in the product. Now I fully understand that anyone who follows this forum will be wary about buying a Fiat based van without doing a reverse it up a hill test, I would, but if I was in the market for a new van now I would not wish to restrict myself to a tiny portion of the market. I suspect all those saying 'would not buy a Fiat' have no intention anyway of buying a new van in the immediate future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libby Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 What are the Italians good at, wine yes, pasta yes, the WWII 'two man' submarines, racing cars, Nobile the airship pilot who flew Amundsen to the North Pole, (if I remember correct) and religion I suppose, but cannot think of much more. In general their military vehicles were not that brilliant. I believe the large production of FIAT M/H vehicles (and others) derives partly from an expanding population and, what (or rather who) is behind their industry? Its been suggested allegedley that the Mafia have a high stake in the country's well being, which in turn also filters through to the USA! Listening to recent mishandling of the US financial system one may question, and who is behind that? FIAT finance is worldwide. Will they admit a wrong doing, NEVER. FIAT have to produce, make no mistake, its as simple as that!! If the product is less than perfect, no matter just keep making it. And why do they sell, because the agents get rewards plus FIAT UK keep importing them and unfortunately so many UK people are 'loyal' customers which in effect means like supermarkets they will continue to buy regardless. I'm never loyal, I buy fuel, food, travel, and all items from the most convenient store I can find. That's my Sunday rant done. What cost the T shirts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david lloyd Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Tracker - 2008-09-20 7:26 PM I am pleased to report two very successful days of spreading the word at Pickering and an even better success of couple of really irritated salesmen who will, with luck, mention it to their bosses who might in turn, with luck, complain to Fiat? We live in hope. On the down side we have seen a lot of new vans with sold signs on the windows - hope they know what they are all doing? Managed to visit the show today (sunday) and pleased that it seems to have gone well - especially with fair weather. Over heard a couple admiring a new Fiat van conversion and wondering why it seemed so cheap compared to others on the show field - I offered one very good reason and they shot a worried look in each others' direction before walking away with an appreciative and relieved air about them to look at the range of second hand vehicles for sale. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 I have just returned from a two week break in the New Forest, at 1900 miles my vibration is becoming worse, on level tarmac my motorhome judder violetely. On two occasion I had to reverse on the pitch, following both occasion I had to pay a visit to the Fiat dealer to repair the reversing lights, camera, cruise control and switch of the dash warning lights. The dealer was excellent, they told me they have raised the matter with Fiat, but they are not listening, and stand a better chance if I complain myself ? However they informed me the coachbuilder were paying less than £5000.00 for the Fiat powertrain, I am assuming they are now paying a lot less. Am I right in thinking this may be the root of the problem >:-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 Melvin, when I questioned the extra cost of an Auto-sleeper on a Ford as opposed to Fiat, I was told that Ford will not discount as they had a ready market for a good product. As opposed to Fiats selling/supply strategy. Have not heard from Andy lately re the NEC protest. REALLY do we want to miss this opportunity ? I know it will be a lot of hard work for you Andy, but Please, Please, when are the T-shirts going to become available???. Happy to send money up front before T-shirts are even printed. Mike (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 21, 2008 Share Posted September 21, 2008 kontiki - 2008-09-20 9:29 PM At the Shepton show I asked any salesman that offered to help about the 'judder problem' some of the answers: What judder Blown out of all proportion by one or two individuals Bad driving Driving style If there is a problem Fiat will fix it It happens with all heavy vehicles when reversing It's only a problem reversing on steep hills(unfortunately we live in Wales) I don't know if I've done the right thing but I have bought a van based on the Renault Master so I don't know what problems I'm in for. I did see on the Renault site that they give a 3 year warranty but when I rang Renault UK I was told first of all the warranty was from the date of conversion not registration & it was only 2 years on a motorhome conversion >:-( I'm kicking myself for not finding out the full information before I bought. Can't remember the details about Renault warranty, but think if you pm Mel E you may get answers. The Renault IMO has a much better driving position, at least it suits me, so if the layout is what you want then it's ok. but lets consider some of the salesmen comments 'What Judder'- I'll give benifet of dought and say ignorant of product being sold. 'Blown out of all proportion by one or two individuals'- how many hundreds of complains so far? 'Bad driving/Driving style'- when Fiat drivers test for defect they don't say 'no judder' they say 'within limits' so even they can't drive them. 'If there is a problem Fiat will fix it'- no official word from Fiat yet. 'It happens with all heavy vehicles when reversing'-on my 'test track' where two out of the three juddered I can reverse two road cranes with no judder, they are considerbly heavier than the Fiat. 'It's only a problem reversing on steep hills- My 'test track' is a mild grassy slope which is often encountered at camp sites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Colin, a friend of mine has a Knaus/Renault 06 reg and he wrote to Renault and got the warranty extended to 3 years. Am meeting him in Spain in two weeks - will post details as soon as I can get to WiFi probably around 5/6 Oct If you send me your E-mail will send info direct + post it on forum. He loves the Renault base,No judders and regularly gets 30 mpg touring. Regards Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 8-) Just got off the phone with Fiat Justin Westnedge, we had an intresting conversation regarding the revs judder, as usual he is none comital. He apparently is awaiting a reply to the situation from Fiat Italy this week, he is aware of Pugeot response, I wonder ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Si DOMANI or DOPPO DOMANI, tomorrow or the next day. Getting closer to the NEC, lets (Fiat) delay a bit more then we (Fiat) will not have to deal with a T-shirt demo at a major show. How many times has it been next week, just a few more days, possibly an answer soon. Look at Fiat(Ferrari in F1) they get away with all sorts. Every time a promise is made by Fiat to make a statement they do - BUT it is always the same " Will get back soon". Am I getting pi**ed off, getting paranoid ? yes!!. Every one is waiting, but nothing is happening. In the end we will all get fed up and give up and that is what Fiat want - after all when you stop banging your head against a brick wall it stops hurting. Frustrated >:-) >:-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Answer to the t-shirt problem seems simple to me, someone (andy or whoever) makes a template, those that want to wear supply email for template to be sent to, then buy t-shirt, and iron on kits from pcworld? get this sorted now and can be left till last minute if nessasary. T-shirts can be brought cheap, transfers from pcworld are £12 for 10? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bob M Posted September 22, 2008 Share Posted September 22, 2008 Hi Kontiki, There was a thread on Renault Master Warranty by a Mike Chapman posted on the 30th October 2007 which deals with this subject I picked up on this thread on the 30/05/2008 and started an investigation into my warranty. My vehicle a Renault based Dethleff was registered new to me on the 03/11/2007 and collected on the 21/11/2007 from dealers Lazy Days. I presumed I had 2 years warranty. No, the base vehicle was delivered to Dethleffs on the 29/11/2005 and that was when the warranty started. 8 days after I took delivery the 2 year service was due??. I have had to send a copy of the registration to Lazy Days who then forwarded it on to Germany who kick started the warranty from the date of registration (03/11/2007) and I now have a 2 years warranty. The 3rd year extension I was led to believe (Renault Service 0800 525150) I could obtain by sending several papers to Renault UK at Rickmansworth. The reply came back last week,No. Another phone number was given with this letter Renault Information Services 0800 525150. You do not state wether your chosen vehicle is a UK conversion or continental. I may be wrong but I believe the 3rd year is to compensate buyers of foreign vans who have lost out on a few months of warranty and not UK vehicles. I found the whole deal very unsatisfactory. The Renault vehicle is very pleasing and if I had the 3rd year I would be surprised if I used it. Sorry if this is disrupting the Fiat thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 They don't make "T" shirts big enough for me!! How about a couple of dozen A0 sized boards on poles listing all the brassed off Fiat owners. If we all stand around the Fiat stand with these it might have the required whatsit?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 Actually that aint half a bad idea all the names listed on the board :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fred grant Posted September 23, 2008 Share Posted September 23, 2008 freds back from is escapades, but wheres andy me ansums. ope e aint bin jetted off to italy? us may ave to sell t-shirts to raise the ransom money. f&a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike 202 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Good idea about the boards with names on, but how do you get the signs past security and how long will the organisers allow you to stand round the Fiat stand. I am sure Fiat will complain and say that protests were not part of their contract and payment for the stand. However T-shirts are worn under coats which can be removed once inside and who is going to ask a lady to disrobe and remove the offending garment. After all T-shirts with logos are pretty normal casual wear. A previous post suggested that the Mafia were involved with Fiat, havn't seen any posts from Andy lately, hope he hasn't been got at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Clive at NEC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.