enodreven Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Frank, I am sure that people have used this as a defense and effectively reduced the penalty that they received, I didn't say I condoned this type of action, as for the spelling and which country I come from please keep it to yourself, as it is totally unhelpful Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I really did think that you may be from the US. I've only ever heard 'gotten' when I've been in that country. Perhaps it's now spreading to the U.K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enodreven Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Frank, There were 2 words and as I said before it really doesn't help so please refrain from making personal comments about the way other people spell or write or what country they come from, just stick to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shallowthroat Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I do think that you're being a bit sensitive here. I use a few forums and the members are from all over the world, such is the Internet.When Frank wrote that 'In this country' he was trying to explain that his view was about what the law is in the UK as he clearly thought, as he has said, that you may be American. I also considered this as you use Americanisms in your post. I really don't think that he was criticising your spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Dwight Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 Well seeing this topic has got off thread of gas attacks. The law in Norway many years ago was that, even if you were in a resturaunt drinking with your meal and you had your vehicle keys on you ,you were considered to be in charge of a vehicle therefore guilty of drink driving. The penalty for that was three months in prison. Usualy in Denmark. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mel B Posted November 21, 2006 Share Posted November 21, 2006 I'm sooooo glad I don't drink! Makes life so much easier!!!!! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted November 22, 2006 Share Posted November 22, 2006 And there's me thinking we were the only ones!! :-D :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankkia Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I don't condone drinking and driving in any way, in fact I don't eat drink smoke or use a mobile whilst driving - always thought that the general idea about being in charge of a vehicle was that you concentrate on doing that and nothing else. If blasted from the night before you are not in a position to be in charge. As far as drinking being off subject of gas attacks I should think that most of the "reported" attacks were from people who had a skin full the night before and on waking with a hangover to find they had been robbed in their alcoholic stupor could only think to blame it on gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTORHOMER Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Clive - 2006-11-18 5:20 PM "at what stage do you cease to be 'in charge of a motorhome'? " When you are pis..d ! Put the keys away safe somewhere & then you cant be in charge. never leave them in the ignition or sit in the driving seat. Motorhomer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Sorry Homer but if you know where the keys are, you are inside the vehicle and insured to drive it then I beleive you can be classed as "in charge" of said vehicle. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Dave, No the whole reason for the Drunk In Charge Law is when the Police come across a drunk driver who is prepairing to drink drive . Without this law the police would have to actually let him drive before having the power to stop him. This is obviously dangerous the proper use of Drunk in Charge is exactly that , where for example drunk leaves a pub obviously under the influence as he gets in his car, in the drivers seat puts the key in the ignition from here on he is liable to be drunk in charge. The policeman must prove he intended to drive. If the drunk man opened his car climbed into the back seat and settled down to sleep that would not be sufficiant for a conviction for drunk in charge. Drunk In Charge is about the readiness & ability to immedately drive . It is designed for people in the act of drink driving that the police would come across before they drive. But caution you must clearly prove there was no intention to drive hence there maybe inapropriate places to drink whilst parked up . That's an entirley different subject again.. If you were in your pyjams with the screens closed the drivers seat turned about face it would be difficult to prove drunk in charge ....If you are on or within the boundary of a highway in the UK this would include any place such as petrol stations or a place where the public have ready access there would be difficulties in the event of an emergency and having to drive. It is always common sense if one person who is eligable to drive does not indulge. Hope this makes sense . Ps thanks for before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 26, 2006 Author Share Posted November 26, 2006 michele - 2006-11-26 8:23 PM Dave, No the whole reason for the Drunk In Charge Law is when the Police come across a drunk driver who is prepairing to drink drive . Without this law the police would have to actually let him drive before having the power to stop him. This is obviously dangerous the proper use of Drunk in Charge is exactly that , where for example drunk leaves a pub obviously under the influence as he gets in his car, in the drivers seat puts the key in the ignition from here on he is liable to be drunk in charge. The policeman must prove he intended to drive. If the drunk man opened his car climbed into the back seat and settled down to sleep that would not be sufficiant for a conviction for drunk in charge. Drunk In Charge is about the readiness & ability to immedately drive . It is designed for people in the act of drink driving that the police would come across before they drive. But caution you must clearly prove there was no intention to drive hence there maybe inapropriate places to drink whilst parked up . That's an entirley different subject again.. If you were in your pyjams with the screens closed the drivers seat turned about face it would be difficult to prove drunk in charge ....If you are on or within the boundary of a highway in the UK this would include any place such as petrol stations or a place where the public have ready access there would be difficulties in the event of an emergency and having to drive. It is always common sense if one person who is eligable to drive does not indulge. Hope this makes sense . Ps thanks for before. MicheleI know you have access to priveleged information on this but, even so, I don't think it is quite such a black and white picture as you have painted.First there is the question of reasonable suspicion. Your drunk, asleep on the back seat, for example, might as easily awaken a couple of hours later, having slept off the worst, and then decide to drive home. I think if spotted he might well be lifted on this ground and then, whether or not he was charged would depend on a) what he said at the time and b) his general demeanour.Again with the same drunk, you say his circumstances would be insufficient for conviction. Maybe so: but before he can be convicted he has to be charged and prosecuted, and he might still risk the latter depending upon actual circumstences. If prosecuted he might be convicted by a court on the evidence as above if, say, he had a record of similar offences, and there were grounds to believe he would be safer banned than continuing his drink driving career.None of the above could possibly apply to any of us though, could it?!! Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Dear Brian, You are quite correct it is a grey area. Arrest may not lead to charge let alone conviction. Previous convictions are irrelevant because except in rare exceptional cases they are not admissable in evidence. if used correctly Drunk in Charge is more than being drunk with access to keys it also depends on how the Policeman writes his evidence.!get my drift. If you are willing to take the chance be aware you are taking a chance with what evidence is presented against you . you are quite right the drunk may wake up and drive his car 3/4 hours later & yes he could be arrested that is not a fair interpretation of Drunk in charge. The best advice to anyone in a Mobilehome or any vehicle is not to drink if you know you have the likelyhood to drive. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwyn Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I don't know about your motorhome but ours is designed to have vents in it therefore feeding carbon monoxide in would be a waste as it would be largely dissipated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I beg to differ regarding Carbon Monoxide. At just 0.01% concentration CO will after 2-3 hours cause a headache. At just over 1% it causes nausea, convulsions and death within 15 minutes. At near 2% it will kill in less than three minutes! The haemoglobin in our blood has a greater affinity for CO than it does for Oxygen which means that if CO is present the haemoglobin will take that in precedence over Oxygen. If anybody starts to suffer from CO poisoning the treatment entails pure oxygen for quite long periods of time to purge the CO from the body. Even if the 'van is well ventilated introducing CO can be very dangerous, even fatal! It's worse than ether, NO2 or most narcotic gases. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 27, 2006 Author Share Posted November 27, 2006 Ignorance is bliss, Dave, ignorance is bliss! So that's why the dead always look so peaceful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I didn't realise just how nasty CO is until yesterday when it was explained on this gas competence course I'm doing. A colourless,odourless, tasteless gas that can kill at a concentration of less than one per cent is pretty nasty stuff! D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 michele - 2006-11-26 9:05 PM Drunk in Charge is more than being drunk with access to keys My understanding is that you have to have access to the ignition key - not just the door key - so (assuming they are different) is not the answer to hide the ignition key somewhere away from the 'van? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 29, 2006 Author Share Posted November 29, 2006 Bill - 2006-11-29 1:18 PM michele - 2006-11-26 9:05 PM Drunk in Charge is more than being drunk with access to keys My understanding is that you have to have access to the ignition key - not just the door key - so (assuming they are different) is not the answer to hide the ignition key somewhere away from the 'van? What, you mean like leave them in the pub? :-)Straws, Bill, you're clutching at straws! However, it's all a bit theoretical and, if you're off the highway, and not in a public place, I think you can safely (medical disclaimer alert!) get ratted with little or no risk to your license! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Brian Kirby - 2006-11-29 3:47 PMBill - 2006-11-29 1:18 PM michele - 2006-11-26 9:05 PM Drunk in Charge is more than being drunk with access to keys My understanding is that you have to have access to the ignition key - not just the door key - so (assuming they are different) is not the answer to hide the ignition key somewhere away from the 'van? What, you mean like leave them in the pub? :-)Straws, Bill, you're clutching at straws! However, it's all a bit theoretical and, if you're off the highway, and not in a public place, I think you can safely (medical disclaimer alert!) get ratted with little or no risk to your license!I was thnking of hiding them under a bush 200 yds away but, yes, the landlord of the pub would be an excellent choice - he is after all a man charged by the law with serving alcohol responsibly. This whole business also raises the question of just what are the police powers to move you on, and how do they differ from an unoccupied vehicle? Further, what happens if the person sleeping in the van is not the person who parked it, and does not even hold a driver's licence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 30, 2006 Author Share Posted November 30, 2006 Now that, I think, is a new topic, and deserves a new posting! Over to you, Bill! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 If he isn't the person who owns it, and not the person who parked and presuming he had the key's and climbed in the passenger seat he is Drunk in charge. Same again if he stay's in the back sobers up has key's and drives it with no licence he's done for.... I don't know you men, talk about blondes being dumb? Have to get the law books out soon with you lot . Oh that brings back memories Sec 5 Sec 6 of the Road Traffic act 1984.... Question is which is what through drink or drugs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyH Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Can't some moderator or somebody stop this thread going onto drunk driving and keep it on the subject it started with? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michele Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Politely NO, Thats up to Brian its his thread.. it all makes interesting reading . ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 michele - 2006-11-30 6:59 PM presuming he had the key's The assumption is that he has the door key, but NOT the ignition key. Perhaps I should have made that clearer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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