Trump suspends Muslim Immigrants

[Bulletguy]

RogerC - 2017-01-27 9:05 PM

antony1969 - 2017-01-27 4:11 PM

Bulletguy - 2017-01-27 2:50 PM

nowtelse2do - 2017-01-27 7:26 AM

Bulletguy - 2017-01-26 5:36 PMAnd back on thread topic, Trump has just isolated the US and American people including the many Muslim Americans. But he obviously forgot about them. If you want to fall big time, just create division.

Isn't the thinking behind that, divide and conquer?Dave

Yes, and Trump wants to be a conquerer....a modern day Ceasar. All end up the same way!He says he will make Mexico pay for his stupid wall by slapping 20% tax on imports from Mexico......but seems to have overlooked the fact Mexico can, and will, do exactly the same to US imports. Regards Saudi, we know why that country isn't on his Muslim hit list. ;-)

Saudi should be on the list .. Its disgraceful really ... Suppose like many countries including ours money and oil talks ... We've just had a couple of million women marching for women rights in America , a country even under Trump where nothing will change for women they will still have thankfully the same rights they enjoy now under Trump ... Saudi women of course couldn't be more different ... Its a shame those couple of million women didnt march for the rights of real victims ... Maybe Madonna or Silly Lily could release a song for them

Have a read of the book lightly covered in the link.....it's an eye opener and really lays out the 'special' relationship between the House of Bush and the House of Saud.......and that still permeates the corridors of power in the US today.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2004/jul/31/highereducation.news

That reminded me of a scene from one of my all time favourite movies, "All The Presidents Men" about Washington Post reporters Bernstein and Woodward who broke the story on President Crook Nixon. Bob Woodward (Robert Redford) had an informant "Deep Throat" he used to meet in an underground carpark. When pushing him for more help "Deep Throat" replies in husky voice, "just follow the money". After a silence of 30 years, Mark Felt admitted it was him who at the time of Watergate, was an FBI agent.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Felt

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-01-27 10:16 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-01-27 5:07 PM

 

soarer - 2017-01-27 4:31 PM

 

What's he going to do at the next school massacre,

Or some disgruntled employee slaughtering his workmates?

Because it's more likely that will happen than any

"Terrorist threat"

 

You got the figures for that claim ?? ... Nearly 3000 killed alone on the September 11th attacks ... How many school massacres and disgruntled employee slaughters to get near that figure ??

 

Stats regarding deaths from gun violence, ie homicides, mass shootings, the figure is four times times that of 9/11 every single year and is on the increase. Add suicides to the equation and the figures are worse still.

 

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/#America

 

By comparison the number of US citizens killed by terrorism is miniscule and remained consistently low post 9/11 which suggests they have their security sorted.......but not their precious 2nd Amendment.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

 

Dont doubt those stats but your adding to the list ... School massacre shootings and disgruntled employee killings don't come anywhere near .... Uncomfortable statistics show the black murder rate is the big problem ... Making up15% of the population they account for way over 50% of murders ... Its something Obama failed to tackle but hopefully Trump will

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-01-27 10:16 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-01-27 5:07 PM

 

soarer - 2017-01-27 4:31 PM

 

What's he going to do at the next school massacre,

Or some disgruntled employee slaughtering his workmates?

Because it's more likely that will happen than any

"Terrorist threat"

 

You got the figures for that claim ?? ... Nearly 3000 killed alone on the September 11th attacks ... How many school massacres and disgruntled employee slaughters to get near that figure ??

 

Stats regarding deaths from gun violence, ie homicides, mass shootings, the figure is four times times that of 9/11 every single year and is on the increase. Add suicides to the equation and the figures are worse still.

 

https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/#America

 

By comparison the number of US citizens killed by terrorism is miniscule and remained consistently low post 9/11 which suggests they have their security sorted.......but not their precious 2nd Amendment.

 

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/02/us/oregon-shooting-terrorism-gun-violence/

 

......and your point is???.....coz all those murders were committed whilst those cute and cuddly Democrats Obama and Co were running the US ;-) ...........

 

Maybe with a proper Redneck in charge, things may improve :D .......

 

 

[antony1969]

Trumps banning of Syrians makes perfect sense ... Given the amount of Syrians we took in during 2016 and the amount of crime committed by them he's got it spot on to protect Americans from crimes including rape and sexual assault ... Merkel may see crime as small price to pay for easing her countries conscience , Trump thankfully puts Yank first ... Its a beautiful thing he's done

[Violet1956]

Full text of the executive order signed on Friday available on this link

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/27/donald-trump-executive-order-immigration-full-text

 

It's a suspension not a ban -whilst a review is conducted of the vetting procedures. The review during the suspension includes the option that the Department of Homeland Security may recommmend further countries in respect of which special vetting procedures might be introduced so Donald might have to swallow such procedures as may be introduced also applying to countries in which he has financial interests.

 

Whether a review was necessary is another matter of course. Some pro Trump commentators see it as absolutely necessary due to the dispersal of ISIL fighters now believed to be fleeing Syria and other countries where they have lost ground.

 

It may of course be a cover for and/or result in restricting the entry of all Muslims from these countries rather than those who potentially pose a terrorist or other perceived threat to the US. That's a difficult one since if enhanced vetting procedures are introduced bound they are bound to have an element of judgement of the likelihood of them posing a threat the the US.

 

It will be interesting to see if the report from the Department Of Homeland Security following the review will be made public in whole or in part.

 

Veronica

 

 

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 7:08 AM

 

Dont doubt those stats but your adding to the list ... School massacre shootings and disgruntled employee killings don't come anywhere near .... Uncomfortable statistics show the black murder rate is the big problem ... Making up15% of the population they account for way over 50% of murders ... Its something Obama failed to tackle but hopefully Trump will

 

Not really. It's common known fact that Bush's "War on Terror" ended up killing way more US forces including Muslim soldiers than 9/11 and who can forget the lunatics swaggering boast of "Mission Accomplished"?

 

Tackling gun crime in US is simple.......but Trump won't do it. Scrub the 2nd Amendment. He talks about NATO being "obsolete" yet i cannot think of anything more outdated, archaic and ludicrous than "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Bonkers. *-)

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-01-28 8:10 AM

 

......and your point is???.....coz all those murders were committed whilst those cute and cuddly Democrats Obama and Co were running the US ;-) ...........

 

Maybe with a proper Redneck in charge, things may improve :D .......

 

You watch too many Spaghetti Westerns and Dirty Harry movies Dave. *-)

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-01-28 9:22 AM

 

Full text of the executive order signed on Friday available on this link

 

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/jan/27/donald-trump-executive-order-immigration-full-text

 

It's a suspension not a ban -whilst a review is conducted of the vetting procedures.

 

 

I'll sift through that later V......have some business to attend to shortly so will be out of the office. (lol)

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-01-28 10:11 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 7:08 AM

 

Dont doubt those stats but your adding to the list ... School massacre shootings and disgruntled employee killings don't come anywhere near .... Uncomfortable statistics show the black murder rate is the big problem ... Making up15% of the population they account for way over 50% of murders ... Its something Obama failed to tackle but hopefully Trump will

 

Not really. It's common known fact that Bush's "War on Terror" ended up killing way more US forces including Muslim soldiers than 9/11 and who can forget the lunatics swaggering boast of "Mission Accomplished"?

 

Tackling gun crime in US is simple.......but Trump won't do it. Scrub the 2nd Amendment. He talks about NATO being "obsolete" yet i cannot think of anything more outdated, archaic and ludicrous than "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

 

Bonkers. *-)

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-01-28 8:10 AM

 

......and your point is???.....coz all those murders were committed whilst those cute and cuddly Democrats Obama and Co were running the US ;-) ...........

 

Maybe with a proper Redneck in charge, things may improve :D .......

 

You watch too many Spaghetti Westerns and Dirty Harry movies Dave. *-)

 

Funny how Trump and Mrs May are both against intervention in other peoples wars ;-) .........

 

Blair & Bush have caused total mayhem in the Middle East, Bin Ladin, Isis, The Taliban, Mujahideen, 9/11, 7/7 etc are all down to their interventions in to other peoples politics/wars *-) ......

 

From what Trump & May have said so far they get my vote B-) .......

 

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-01-26 7:25 PM

 

I think what Trump has done is not what many people who've taken against it think it is. This link helps.

 

http://www.visittheusa.co.uk/info/changes-visa-waiver-program-vwp-and-electronic-system-travel-authorization-esta

 

And I wonder if Syrian and Yemeni citizens and others from states where there is a threat of terrorism have ever enjoyed admission under the visa waiver scheme, if they did enjoy such privileges I doubt that they did not come under intense scrutiny at the US border. It would be interesting to find out whether they can use the visa waiver scheme.

 

There's been a bit of a hue and cry from UNHCR about the halt on the US accepting any refugees from under some agreement they had but if the department of homeland security has legitimate concerns that the vetting procedures concerned with those need to be reviewed. I don't see anything wrong in that.

 

If only Trump had just said in the past and at present that the US needed to review it's visa procedures in relation to states where there were Islamist terrorists or people who had travelled to them recently I don't see how there could be any objection. It's their border, they have been victims of vile acts of Islamist terrorism in the past and the people are quite naturally afraid that they continue to be targets. As I recall there was a review of the visa waiver programme for Brits and Europeans because of our homegrown terrorists. I'm not complaining about that I understand why they needed to do it.

 

Veronica

 

It's a backward step imo and not been thought through at all and it's this kind of knee jerk reaction which will be Trumps undoing. Let's not lose sight of fact he's a "businessman" and tv game show host having good fun playing up to the media as he does his cheesy poses to camera signing off various decrees as though he's dishing out autographs to fans. He thinks he's a celebrity.

 

I think his actions will be challenged under US constitutional law as they appear to be in breach of the 5th and 14th Amendment. "......that the Federal Government not deprive individuals of "life, liberty, or property," without due process of the law and an implicit guarantee that each person receive equal protection of the laws." and ".....explicitly prohibits states from violating an individual's rights of due process and equal protection. .......Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Whilst supposedly a "temporary" 90 day ban it also caps the total number of refugees entering the US in 2017 to 50,000 – less than half the previous year’s figure of 117,000.

 

Whilst Trump does not mention Muslim per se it's quite obvious he's specifically targeted them by naming predominantly Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is exempt because US wants cheap oil, not to mention the vested interests with many US companies based there making billions, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, Boeing, General Electric, Westinghouse, Pharmaceutical and Banking to name just a few. Even Coca-Cola and Pepsi.

 

It's already caused chaos with numerous passengers cancelling flights. An Iranian film director nominated for an Oscar has pulled out of the scheduled awards ceremony to be held in Hollywood.

 

The Anne Frank Centre wrote;

 

As President Donald Trump unveils a stunning bundle of unconstitutional and discriminatory executive orders – a registry on Muslim visitors to the United States, a moratorium on visas for citizens from eight Muslim nations, a weekly list of crimes committed by “removable aliens,” a reinstatement of the torture program, to name a few – he was met with a horrified response from Steven Goldstein, Executive Director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect.

 

Anne Frank was a Jewish girl who famously kept a diary as she and her family hid from the Nazis before being caught. She later died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, most likely of typhus. The steps that Donald Trump is taking to discriminate and dehumanize Muslims and illegal immigrants mirror the early actions that the Nazi Party took to isolate and dehumanize European Jews, paving the way for mass complicity in the systematic extermination of six million innocent people.

 

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/01/25/trump-just-ended-refugee-program-anne-frank-centers-response-perfect/

 

An interesting article here from The Washington Post polling American public which shows a marked shift in attitude towards Muslim people and their faith. It explains that during Trumps bitter fought and divisive campaigning with the emphasis on one side more than the other, people tend to begin looking at the other side. Not all Americans are dumb!

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/01/25/americans-dont-support-trumps-ban-on-muslim-immigration/?utm_term=.17b7953a49cc

 

I've just read a legal challenge has now been filed against Trump's order. Lawyers representing two Iraqi refugees detained at JFK airport filed a challenge against the measure on Saturday, demanding their clients be released and proposing a class action in a bid to represent all refugees and migrants affected. One of them had worked for the US in Iraq for 10 years!! *-)

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-01-28 2:01 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-01-26 7:25 PM

 

I think what Trump has done is not what many people who've taken against it think it is. This link helps.

 

http://www.visittheusa.co.uk/info/changes-visa-waiver-program-vwp-and-electronic-system-travel-authorization-esta

 

And I wonder if Syrian and Yemeni citizens and others from states where there is a threat of terrorism have ever enjoyed admission under the visa waiver scheme, if they did enjoy such privileges I doubt that they did not come under intense scrutiny at the US border. It would be interesting to find out whether they can use the visa waiver scheme.

 

There's been a bit of a hue and cry from UNHCR about the halt on the US accepting any refugees from under some agreement they had but if the department of homeland security has legitimate concerns that the vetting procedures concerned with those need to be reviewed. I don't see anything wrong in that.

 

If only Trump had just said in the past and at present that the US needed to review it's visa procedures in relation to states where there were Islamist terrorists or people who had travelled to them recently I don't see how there could be any objection. It's their border, they have been victims of vile acts of Islamist terrorism in the past and the people are quite naturally afraid that they continue to be targets. As I recall there was a review of the visa waiver programme for Brits and Europeans because of our homegrown terrorists. I'm not complaining about that I understand why they needed to do it.

 

Veronica

 

It's a backward step imo and not been thought through at all and it's this kind of knee jerk reaction which will be Trumps undoing. Let's not lose sight of fact he's a "businessman" and tv game show host having good fun playing up to the media as he does his cheesy poses to camera signing off various decrees as though he's dishing out autographs to fans. He thinks he's a celebrity.

 

I think his actions will be challenged under US constitutional law as they appear to be in breach of the 5th and 14th Amendment. "......that the Federal Government not deprive individuals of "life, liberty, or property," without due process of the law and an implicit guarantee that each person receive equal protection of the laws." and ".....explicitly prohibits states from violating an individual's rights of due process and equal protection. .......Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" Whilst supposedly a "temporary" 90 day ban it also caps the total number of refugees entering the US in 2017 to 50,000 – less than half the previous year’s figure of 117,000.

 

Whilst Trump does not mention Muslim per se it's quite obvious he's specifically targeted them by naming predominantly Muslim countries. Saudi Arabia is exempt because US wants cheap oil, not to mention the vested interests with many US companies based there making billions, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics, Boeing, General Electric, Westinghouse, Pharmaceutical and Banking to name just a few. Even Coca-Cola and Pepsi.

 

It's already caused chaos with numerous passengers cancelling flights. An Iranian film director nominated for an Oscar has pulled out of the scheduled awards ceremony to be held in Hollywood.

 

The Anne Frank Centre wrote;

 

As President Donald Trump unveils a stunning bundle of unconstitutional and discriminatory executive orders – a registry on Muslim visitors to the United States, a moratorium on visas for citizens from eight Muslim nations, a weekly list of crimes committed by “removable aliens,” a reinstatement of the torture program, to name a few – he was met with a horrified response from Steven Goldstein, Executive Director of the Anne Frank Center for Mutual Respect.

 

Anne Frank was a Jewish girl who famously kept a diary as she and her family hid from the Nazis before being caught. She later died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp, most likely of typhus. The steps that Donald Trump is taking to discriminate and dehumanize Muslims and illegal immigrants mirror the early actions that the Nazi Party took to isolate and dehumanize European Jews, paving the way for mass complicity in the systematic extermination of six million innocent people.

 

http://occupydemocrats.com/2017/01/25/trump-just-ended-refugee-program-anne-frank-centers-response-perfect/

 

An interesting article here from The Washington Post polling American public which shows a marked shift in attitude towards Muslim people and their faith. It explains that during Trumps bitter fought and divisive campaigning with the emphasis on one side more than the other, people tend to begin looking at the other side. Not all Americans are dumb!

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/01/25/americans-dont-support-trumps-ban-on-muslim-immigration/?utm_term=.17b7953a49cc

 

I've just read a legal challenge has now been filed against Trump's order. Lawyers representing two Iraqi refugees detained at JFK airport filed a challenge against the measure on Saturday, demanding their clients be released and proposing a class action in a bid to represent all refugees and migrants affected. One of them had worked for the US in Iraq for 10 years!! *-)

 

The Washington Post ... Centre left paper ... We need more businessmen/TV gameshow hosts to go into politics ... They sure get things done don't they ... Those foundations for the wall will be going in soon ... HM Theresa May doesn't seem to care about the ban on Muslims , holding hands with President Trump like two old friends ... Reminds me of Thatcher/Reagan ... Looks very much like Wilders is going to do it in Holland too ... Like it or not Bullet the world is changing

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 2:46 PM

 

The Washington Post ... Centre left paper ... We need more businessmen/TV gameshow hosts to go into politics ... They sure get things done don't they ... Those foundations for the wall will be going in soon ... HM Theresa May doesn't seem to care about the ban on Muslims , holding hands with President Trump like two old friends ... Reminds me of Thatcher/Reagan ... Looks very much like Wilders is going to do it in Holland too ... Like it or not Bullet the world is changing.

 

New York Times.......right leaning paper. Right up your street.

 

"The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the U.S. government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for a U.S. contractor, and young son, the lawyers said."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html

 

 

 

"Announcing his “extreme vetting” plan, the president invoked the specter of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Most of the 19 hijackers on the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Shanksville, Pa., were from Saudi Arabia. The rest were from the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon. None of those countries are on Mr. Trump’s visa ban list.

 

Human rights activists roundly condemned Mr. Trump’s actions, describing them as officially sanctioned religious persecution dressed up to look like an effort to make the United States safer".

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/trump-syrian-refugees.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

 

 

 

"Trump signed an executive order on Friday that purports to bar for at least 90 days almost all permanent immigration from seven majority-Muslim countries, including Syria and Iraq, and asserts the power to extend the ban indefinitely.

 

But the order is illegal. More than 50 years ago, Congress outlawed such discrimination against immigrants based on national origin.

 

That decision came after a long and shameful history in this country of barring immigrants based on where they came from."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/opinion/trumps-immigration-ban-is-illegal.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

 

 

 

 

"Across the Muslim world, the refrain was resounding: President Trump’s freeze on refugee arrivals and visa requests from seven predominantly Muslim countries will have major diplomatic repercussions, worsen perceptions of Americans and offer a propaganda boost to the terrorist groups Mr. Trump says he is targeting.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/middleeast/muslims-trump-visa-restrictions-.html?action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&module=RelatedCoverage®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article

[Violet1956]

I think BG is right to be concerned about an agenda which may be to discriminate against all Muslims by refusing entry to the US except those who are economically valuable to the US regardless of whether they pose a threat to the US.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on the US Constitution but there must be a question about how much the obligations that arise under it can apply to those seeking entry who have established no prior right to enter or remain in the US.

 

Maybe once someone has entered (and merely landing in a country as we know does not amount to entry unless you've cleared border controls) then they may enjoy the protection of the Constitution but I don't expect people outside the US to be able to invoke it on the grounds of discrimination unless there are laws in the US that apply aspects of the contitutiion to people who require a visa to enter the US. Border controls are just that, they discriminate for example against the us Brits who don't possess US nationality as we need permission to enter. In the UK we do the same. Not all people need a visa to enter or remain here. We discriminate by requiring citizens of certain countries to apply for a visa though.

 

 

Veronica

 

 

[Violet1956]

Sorry BG my musings are pretty rubbish given you had posted links about which laws in the US apply to the executive order he made. I made the fatal mistake of not reading them first.

 

Veronica

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-01-28 3:25 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 2:46 PM

 

The Washington Post ... Centre left paper ... We need more businessmen/TV gameshow hosts to go into politics ... They sure get things done don't they ... Those foundations for the wall will be going in soon ... HM Theresa May doesn't seem to care about the ban on Muslims , holding hands with President Trump like two old friends ... Reminds me of Thatcher/Reagan ... Looks very much like Wilders is going to do it in Holland too ... Like it or not Bullet the world is changing.

 

New York Times.......right leaning paper. Right up your street.

 

"The lawyers said that one of the Iraqis detained at Kennedy Airport, Hameed Khalid Darweesh, had worked on behalf of the U.S. government in Iraq for 10 years. The other, Haider Sameer Abdulkhaleq Alshawi, was coming to the United States to join his wife, who had worked for a U.S. contractor, and young son, the lawyers said."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/28/us/refugees-detained-at-us-airports-prompting-legal-challenges-to-trumps-immigration-order.html

 

 

 

"Announcing his “extreme vetting” plan, the president invoked the specter of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks. Most of the 19 hijackers on the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and a field in Shanksville, Pa., were from Saudi Arabia. The rest were from the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Lebanon. None of those countries are on Mr. Trump’s visa ban list.

 

Human rights activists roundly condemned Mr. Trump’s actions, describing them as officially sanctioned religious persecution dressed up to look like an effort to make the United States safer".

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/us/politics/trump-syrian-refugees.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=a-lede-package-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

 

 

 

 

"Trump signed an executive order on Friday that purports to bar for at least 90 days almost all permanent immigration from seven majority-Muslim countries, including Syria and Iraq, and asserts the power to extend the ban indefinitely.

 

But the order is illegal. More than 50 years ago, Congress outlawed such discrimination against immigrants based on national origin.

 

That decision came after a long and shameful history in this country of barring immigrants based on where they came from."

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/opinion/trumps-immigration-ban-is-illegal.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region®ion=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region

 

 

 

 

"Across the Muslim world, the refrain was resounding: President Trump’s freeze on refugee arrivals and visa requests from seven predominantly Muslim countries will have major diplomatic repercussions, worsen perceptions of Americans and offer a propaganda boost to the terrorist groups Mr. Trump says he is targeting.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/27/world/middleeast/muslims-trump-visa-restrictions-.html?action=click&contentCollection=Opinion&module=RelatedCoverage®ion=Marginalia&pgtype=article[/quote

 

Might be a case of the left hand doesn't know what the right hands doing at the moment with the new immigration restrictions ... If any of those held have been illegally held or refused entry then hopefully that will sort itself out ... I don't think The President was at passport control himself refusing entry though ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 2:46 PM

Looks very much like Wilders is going to do it in Holland too ... Like it or not Bullet the world is changing

 

Even the Dutch prime minister is swinging to the right :D ........

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/23/dutch-prime-minister-warns-migrants-normal-gone-fends-populist/

 

 

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2017-01-28 4:04 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 2:46 PM

Looks very much like Wilders is going to do it in Holland too ... Like it or not Bullet the world is changing

 

Even the Dutch prime minister is swinging to the right :D ........

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/23/dutch-prime-minister-warns-migrants-normal-gone-fends-populist/

 

 

 

 

The French candidate up against Le Pen too by the sounds of it ... Soon only Bullet and Barry will want to carry on with unlimited numbers ... As long as its not to their village of course >:-)

All this whinging about Trumps new policy persecuting Muslims ... Muslim countries have persecuted non-Muslims since day dot have they not

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-01-28 3:32 PM

 

I think BG is right to be concerned about an agenda which may be to discriminate against all Muslims by refusing entry to the US except those who are economically valuable to the US regardless of whether they pose a threat to the US.

 

I don't pretend to be an expert on the US Constitution but there must be a question about how much the obligations that arise under it can apply to those seeking entry who have established no prior right to enter or remain in the US.

 

Maybe once someone has entered (and merely landing in a country as we know does not amount to entry unless you've cleared border controls) then they may enjoy the protection of the Constitution but I don't expect people outside the US to be able to invoke it on the grounds of discrimination unless there are laws in the US that apply aspects of the contitutiion to people who require a visa to enter the US. Border controls are just that, they discriminate for example against the us Brits who don't possess US nationality as we need permission to enter. In the UK we do the same. Not all people need a visa to enter or remain here. We discriminate by requiring citizens of certain countries to apply for a visa though.

 

 

Veronica

 

 

He's violating US constitutional laws, namely the 5th and 14th Amendment and is now coming under fire from lawyers who are picking through everything with a fine tooth comb.....something Trump should pay more attention to instead of seizing another photo glam session. Because he isn't a politician and never had any political experience, he should be listening to White House advisers but he seems more interested in clowning around.

 

The Immigration and Nationality Act of 1965 banned all discrimination against immigrants on the basis of national origin and states, "no person can be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth or place of residence”. So he's in direct breach of that for starters.

 

Here is just one example of thousands which are now backing up;

 

Ali Abdi, an Iranian with permanent residency of the US, is in limbo in Dubai.

 

He can not go to Iran because he has been outspoken about human rights violations there, he can not return to the US because of the visa bans and he can not stay longer in Dubai as his visa will run out.

 

Google have also recalled 100 of it's staff back to US. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38781420

 

In Iran a Foreign Ministry statement carried by state media said Iran “would take appropriate consular, legal and political measures” against the ban.

 

There are also Iraqi forces who have been working directly with US forces in Iraq. Some even have family in the US. As one Iraqi said, “why would they ban us from coming to America when they are in my country and have bases here?” Good question. And then we wonder why they end up turning to extreme fundamentalism, because that's precisely what Trump is guilty of here.

 

This makes a thought provoking read;

 

In 1998, the conservative provocateur Ann Coulter made waves when she wrote that President Clinton should be either impeached or assassinated. Coulter was roundly - and rightly - condemned for suggesting that the murder of the President might be justified, but her conceptual linking of presidential impeachment and assassination was not entirely unfounded. Indeed, Benjamin Franklin had made the same linkage over two hundred years earlier, when he noted at the Constitutional Convention that, historically, the removal of “obnoxious” chief executives had been accomplished by assassination. Franklin suggested that a proceduralized mechanism for removal - impeachment - would be preferable.

 

http://scholarship.law.cornell.edu/facpub/164/

[antony1969]

If he's violating US constitutional law then Im sure that will be addressed ... I believe he's said that Christians persecuted in the Muslim world will take priority for asylum in the US over Muslims ... Well done him ... How many Muslim countries in the world ban Jews or make it incredibly difficult for them to enter Muslim countries ... ??? Shame we don't have anyone standing up for them is it not

[soarer]

What is there to stop them saying they are christians ?

 

 

A bit like the republicans really ....

[malc d]

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 5:32 PM

How many Muslim countries in the world ban Jews or make it incredibly difficult for them to enter Muslim countries ... ???

 

Shame we don't have anyone standing up for them is it not

 

 

 

Haven' t been able to find any.

 

:-|

[antony1969]

malc d - 2017-01-28 5:42 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 5:32 PM

How many Muslim countries in the world ban Jews or make it incredibly difficult for them to enter Muslim countries ... ???

 

Shame we don't have anyone standing up for them is it not

 

 

 

Haven' t been able to find any.

 

:-|

 

Take the blinkers off and ya just might

[antony1969]

soarer - 2017-01-28 5:39 PM

 

What is there to stop them saying they are christians ?

 

 

A bit like the republicans really ....

 

Who Muslims or Jews B-)

[Bulletguy]

And now it's tearing families apart.

 

Murtadha Al-Tameemi, 24 is a software engineer for Facebook from Iraq who lives and works in Seattle. He was in Canada when he got a “frantic call” from his immigration attorney telling him to immediately cross the border back into the US.

 

Tameemi’s family live just three hours away in Vancouver but he doesn’t know when he’ll see his family again. He says: “I have been traveling back and forth between the US and Canada on almost weekly basis for a few years. I was in Vancouver to attend the opening night of my little brother’s first play when I got the call but there was no way I was going to miss that.

 

“I didn’t want to make a big deal because it was a happy night for our family but I told my mum the situation and that I didn’t know when I would see her again. She told me everything is going to be alright and that it would all work out.”

 

After the play he rushed to the airport. He says: “I showed up five hours before my flight this morning to race against any executive order and get through immigration before the potential ban could take effect.”

 

Tameemi, who first came to the US as an exchange student, also had to cancel a planned business trip to Africa and will have to stay put for the foreseeable future. “It certainly doesn’t feel like the America that welcomed me 10 years ago with open arms and hearts.”

 

 

 

 

malc d - 2017-01-28 5:42 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-01-28 5:32 PM

How many Muslim countries in the world ban Jews or make it incredibly difficult for them to enter Muslim countries ... ???

 

Shame we don't have anyone standing up for them is it not

 

 

 

Haven' t been able to find any.

 

:-|

 

Iran generally does.......but on nationality only and not by faith. However it's not impossible as this account from 2016 shows of an Israeli who went there; https://mosaicmagazine.com/observation/2016/03/flourishing-under-confinement-a-visit-to-jewish-iran/ There are approx 30,000 Jews living in Iran.

 

Non-muslims cannot visit Mecca, but that's just one area and not the entire country. Even during Taliban rule in Afghanistan both Jews and Christians were freely allowed to travel there.

[Bulletguy]

Independent has it summed up;

 

"So Donald Trump is going to f**k them all. No excuses for such filthy words today. I’m only quoting the man whose Pentagon offices he just used to disgrace himself – and America. For it was Secretary of Defence James ‘Mad Dog’ Mattis who told Iraqis in 2003 that he came “in peace’ – he even urged his Marines to be compassionate – but said of those who might dare to resist America’s illegal invasion of their country: "If you f**k with me, I’ll kill you all.”

 

There’s no getting round it. Call it Nazi, Fascist, racist, vicious, illiberal, immoral, cruel. More dangerously, what Trump has done is a wicked precedent. If you can stop them coming, you can chuck them out. If you can demand "extreme vetting" of Muslims from seven countries, you can also demand a "values test" for those Muslims who have already made it to the USA.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-refugee-ban-muslim-countries-christians-welcomerobert-fisk-a7550941.html

 

 

 

And it just continues to get even more stupid by the minute;

 

Hamaseh Tayari, a UK resident who holds an Iranian passport, has been on holiday in Costa Rica with her boyfriend for the last week. She was due to fly back to Glasgow, where she works as a vet, this morning but was denied entry onto the flight because her flight went via New York and she would need a transit visa, which was revoked.

 

Tayari, who grew up in Italy, has never experienced anything like this. She says: “This has really shocked me. We just discovered [what Trump did] at the airport when we went to check-in. I want people to know that this is not just happening to refugees. I am a graduate and I have a Phd. It has happened to a person who is working and who pays tax.”

 

Trump's narcissistic megalomania is spiraling out of control.

[antony1969]

But he's doing what he said he would Bullet ... What Americans voted for ... You complained he does nothing then when he does something you complain ... Its beautiful