Barryd999 Posted March 15, 2020 Share Posted March 15, 2020 Ocsid - 2020-03-15 6:36 PM Should we get it and importantly, get through it and serve our isolation stint, is there any creditable medical opinion that we could then safely switch back on our socialising etc.? Or is it believed it is a come and come again type of affliction? Sadly, we both with our ages and existing medical conditions, are what looks like its "target species". Once you get it and get over it the general expert opinion seems to be that you are immune from that strain. I am sure I heard that it is possible that there might be a second or third strain which you may not be immune to but dont quote me on that. Just what Ive picked up on TV etc but generally now at least once you have had it you should be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ocsid Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-03-15 11:36 PM Once you get it and get over it the general expert opinion seems to be that you are immune from that strain. I am sure I heard that it is possible that there might be a second or third strain which you may not be immune to but dont quote me on that. Just what Ive picked up on TV etc but generally now at least once you have had it you should be ok. Thank you. A second question, as I have missed any formal statement that might have referred to it. As it seems at least some of the deaths have followed the virus's propensity to result in pneumonia, has the injection against pneumonia many of the elderly will have had, been credited to help survive Corona virus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Barryd999 - 2020-03-15 11:36 PM Ocsid - 2020-03-15 6:36 PM Should we get it and importantly, get through it and serve our isolation stint, is there any creditable medical opinion that we could then safely switch back on our socialising etc.? Or is it believed it is a come and come again type of affliction? Sadly, we both with our ages and existing medical conditions, are what looks like its "target species". Once you get it and get over it the general expert opinion seems to be that you are immune from that strain. I am sure I heard that it is possible that there might be a second or third strain which you may not be immune to but dont quote me on that. Just what Ive picked up on TV etc but generally now at least once you have had it you should be ok. You may want to read through this March 15 article https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/15/can-you-get-infected-by-coronavirus-twice-how-does-covid-19-immunity-work/#71e57a725c0f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-03-16 7:24 AM Barryd999 - 2020-03-15 11:36 PM Ocsid - 2020-03-15 6:36 PM Should we get it and importantly, get through it and serve our isolation stint, is there any creditable medical opinion that we could then safely switch back on our socialising etc.? Or is it believed it is a come and come again type of affliction? Sadly, we both with our ages and existing medical conditions, are what looks like its "target species". Once you get it and get over it the general expert opinion seems to be that you are immune from that strain. I am sure I heard that it is possible that there might be a second or third strain which you may not be immune to but dont quote me on that. Just what Ive picked up on TV etc but generally now at least once you have had it you should be ok. You may want to read through this March 15 article https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/03/15/can-you-get-infected-by-coronavirus-twice-how-does-covid-19-immunity-work/#71e57a725c0f I would suggest that article is not confirmation of anything but somewhat speculative at best. They are flying by the seats of their pants with this but the general opinion seems to be that once you have had this particular strain you "should" be immune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Ocsid - 2020-03-16 7:12 AM Barryd999 - 2020-03-15 11:36 PM Once you get it and get over it the general expert opinion seems to be that you are immune from that strain. I am sure I heard that it is possible that there might be a second or third strain which you may not be immune to but dont quote me on that. Just what Ive picked up on TV etc but generally now at least once you have had it you should be ok. Thank you. A second question, as I have missed any formal statement that might have referred to it. As it seems at least some of the deaths have followed the virus's propensity to result in pneumonia, has the injection against pneumonia many of the elderly will have had, been credited to help survive Corona virus? Sadly no but they are still useful to have. This article explains it https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article240916181.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Modern hospital ventillators are complex things but ventilation can be performed manually and a rellatively simple powered version of the manual ventilator was developed for use in underdeveloped countries - and this might suffice for the current emergency expansion of facilities. There is a lot of information on line including this: https://coronavirustechhandbook.com/hardware Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Another way to possibly provide protection is Microbiome diversity. Gut bacteria are involved in the body’s inflammatory process.Reserch has identified microbiome traits associated with various diseases. If your microbiome doesn’t have these traits your level of protection is high. I recently had my gut bacteria analysed and my score was 9 out of 10 for having a diverse microbiome that can resist the negative impact of external factors. Feeding your good gut bacteria is very important for your health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 StuartO - 2020-03-16 9:32 AM Modern hospital ventillators are complex things but ventilation can be performed manually and a rellatively simple powered version of the manual ventilator was developed for use in underdeveloped countries - and this might suffice for the current emergency expansion of facilities. There is a lot of information on line including this: https://coronavirustechhandbook.com/hardware Stuart, are you seriously relying on what appears to be an open source site with no credentials apparent and which anyone appears to be able to edit and contribute to? Many of the research papers that have appeared in more reliable publications suggest that Covid-19 victims who require mechanical ventilation will need it for around 2 weeks or more until the final outcome (recovered or dead). Can you see a team of medical professionals being available to carry out manual ventilation on a single patient for anywhere near that length of time in normal circumstances, let alone a health system stretched to or beyond capacity? By the way, for anyone considering self-isolating for up to four months as suggested by the governmant, I wish you luck. We would like to do the same if necessary, but with two supermarket online ordering systems having crashed due to demand and no slots available for over 4 weeks on others in our area, we are going to have to make personal shopping visits. This does appear to vary by area though, as I saw a headline in a Bristol online newspaper stating that due to current demands no-one could get a supermarket order delivered before next Wednesday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Deneb - 2020-03-16 10:43 AM StuartO - 2020-03-16 9:32 AM There is a lot of information on line including this: https://coronavirustechhandbook.com/hardware Stuart, are you seriously relying on what appears to be an open source site with no credentials apparent and which anyone appears to be able to edit and contribute to? Panic not. None of us are going to be building or procuring ventilators ourselves; we'll be self-isolating to hide away from the virus. I am merely linking to a source of information for those who are worrying that ventilators for the NHS will be impossible to procure. Of course manual ventilation will be impractical on the scale required, I showed the manual version for comparison with the powered version to illustrate that a simple powered ventilator might (just might) do thejob. Just for information, that's all. The option to order food on line for home delivery doeos seem to have disapperaed temporarily; we tried an order this morning and there were no delivery slots available at all. Hopefully that will settle down in a week or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Just a reminder that the best protection against viruses is.......soap. The lipids in soap dissolve the protective outer layer of a virus. Destroying its core. Which is why the advice is to constantly wash your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 StuartO - 2020-03-16 11:18 AM Panic not. None of us are going to be building or procuring ventilators ourselves; we'll be self-isolating to hide away from the virus. I am merely linking to a source of information for those who are worrying that ventilators for the NHS will be impossible to procure. Of course manual ventilation will be impractical on the scale required, I showed the manual version for comparison with the powered version to illustrate that a simple powered ventilator might (just might) do thejob. Just for information, that's all. It's just that if you go to the top level page for the site you quoted, it appears to have been authored by someone sitting in a flat with a laptop on a coffee table and allowing anyone with a facebook account to contribute, qualifications not necessary or checked. He's asking for £5 donations to keep the "resource" running and proudly proclaims that £110 has been received so far. I think I would rather give £5 to the WHO Solidarity Response fund! https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/donate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Billggski - 2020-03-16 11:23 AM Just a reminder that the best protection against viruses is.......soap. The lipids in soap dissolve the protective outer layer of a virus. Destroying its core. Which is why the advice is to constantly wash your hands. Thanks for this Bill. I'd been puzzling about that soap advice ever since it was first given. I "googled" soap destroys virus and the result was this web article quoting professor Palli Thordarson, of the University of New South Wales: https://tinyurl.com/tmzlt43 Good explanation of the how and why soap works. Seems the technique would be to not wash hands under running water but instead to apply the soap to pre-wetted hands, work well in, wait 20 seconds, and then rinse away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Soap is soap but does a hand 'gel' have the same properties ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Will86 - 2020-03-16 1:07 PM Soap is soap but does a hand 'gel' have the same properties ? Not an expert but I think hand sanitizer uses alcohol to disinfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 StuartO - 2020-03-16 1:14 PM Will86 - 2020-03-16 1:07 PM Soap is soap but does a hand 'gel' have the same properties ? Not an expert but I think hand sanitizer uses alcohol to disinfect. Yes, and it's not as effective as soap and doesn't work well unless your hands are already clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-03-16 12:22 PM Billggski - 2020-03-16 11:23 AM Just a reminder that the best protection against viruses is.......soap. The lipids in soap dissolve the protective outer layer of a virus. Destroying its core. Which is why the advice is to constantly wash your hands. Thanks for this Bill. I'd been puzzling about that soap advice ever since it was first given. I "googled" soap destroys virus and the result was this web article quoting professor Palli Thordarson, of the University of New South Wales: https://tinyurl.com/tmzlt43 Good explanation of the how and why soap works. Seems the technique would be to not wash hands under running water but instead to apply the soap to pre-wetted hands, work well in, wait 20 seconds, and then rinse away. I don't think that that is fully accurate? Nearly but not quite! (And before people shout foul I have an MSc in Biochemistry - not an expert, but I do have some knowledge!) I think it's the Virus envelope that has the lipids and these are dissolved by the soap thereby disrupting the virus & effectively killing it. It is fully explained in this article https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/12/science-soap-kills-coronavirus-alcohol-based-disinfectants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Deneb - 2020-03-16 1:16 PM StuartO - 2020-03-16 1:14 PM Will86 - 2020-03-16 1:07 PM Soap is soap but does a hand 'gel' have the same properties ? Not an expert but I think hand sanitizer uses alcohol to disinfect. Yes, and it's not as effective as soap and doesn't work well unless your hands are already clean. It depends on what you mean by hand gel, some are a liquid soap (with a bit different formulation plus more water) and AFAIK have the same or similar properties, and you use them in the same way you use a bar of soap, others which are designed to be used without water AFAIK use alcohol to disinfect, this needs to have enough alcohol to be effective (70+%?), it has been advised for several years now that these are OK for occasional cleaning where access to water is not convenient, but should not be used continuously without other forms of hand washing. (hope I've worded that correctly) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Latest news from Ursula van Leyden - President of the European Commission See here: New EU guidelines on border measures: In summary a temporary restriction on all non-essential travel to the EU. In other words no one can enter the EU: with exemptions (see below) These will be in in place for an initial 30 days - but can be prolonged There are exemptions, which are: - Long term residents in the EU - Family members of EU nationals - Diplomats - Essential staff, such as nurses, doctors, experts, researchers and care workers - People transporting goods into and in the EU are exempted, because the flow of goods to the EU must continue to ensure the supply of goods such as food and medicines and inputs to factories. For fuller commentary see the full Press Conference here: Ursula von der Leyen's comments (in English) start at 6:32 minutes in. https://www.pscp.tv/w/1rmxPADZwaXKN If you are on the way to the ferry/tunnel to enter the EU, you may want to pull over and check your options. Which probably amount to a U turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted March 16, 2020 Author Share Posted March 16, 2020 Shopping on line is working again. I had tried and failed to order shopping from Sainsburys on line two or three times; the order was accepted but when i tried to book a delivery slot they were all blank, seemingly for three weeks ahead. Somehow after I tried to check out and pay (which requires a delivery slot to have been selected) up popped a narrow pair of options for the afternoon of the day after tomorrow. No idea whether they favour existing customers or what, but the system is now working again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 UPDATE: In response to a question from a Guardian journalist about the application of the recently announced EU movement restrictions the President ot the European Commission responded. "The UK citizens are European citizens, and so of course there are no restrictions on UK citizens to travel to the continent" Ursula von der Leyen. Exactly what that means will I hope be clarified over the next few days. But I am struggling to reconcile that statement with Boris's statement that we have left the EU, but I am not a constitutional expert. I thought we were no longer members or citizens of the EU. More to the point I thought that the restrictions applied to all EU citizens except the exemptions already listed in my earlier post. Not for the first time, I am confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 We may have left the eu, but have agreed to be subject to their laws and regulations, without any say in their implementation, until there is a final agreement. Which may be December 31st, or whenever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 Billggski - 2020-03-16 4:32 PM We may have left the eu, but have agreed to be subject to their laws and regulations, without any say in their implementation, until there is a final agreement. Which may be December 31st, or whenever. Yes, well that may well be the case, but what she said was that as European citizens we (UK citizens) can still travel to the EU. I thought our citizenship had changed. In any event the Commission only proposes measures which the individual states need to ratify and implement I think. I believe they hope to do that tomorrow. In her public announcement there were two key points. 1?Green lanes/fast lanes giving priority to essential transport to keep the mobility sector going & ensure economic continuity 2?Temporary restriction on non-essential travel to the EU (30 days) The second would imply that motorhoming across Europe, along with all other "non-essential travel" is to stop. All tourist activity will stop. Unless I have entirely the wrong end of the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 It would appear that she is only proposing that measure, it is not yet a law and would have to be agreed by individual EU states. see here :- "Therefore … I propose to the heads of state and government to introduce temporary restriction on non-essential travel to the EU’" https://metro.co.uk/2020/03/16/eu-bans-non-essential-travel-27-countries-coronavirus-30-days-12406158/ This article also answers the question about UK membership of EU. ie during transition we are still members. Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near mainland Europe at the present moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 It's my understanding that the travel restriction will not apply to UK citizens so in principal motorhome travel to Continental Europe is still feasible. It's also my understanding that the UK will not have to implement restrictive travel into the UK from outside of the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 laimeduck - 2020-03-16 4:44 PM Personally I wouldn't go anywhere near mainland Europe at the present moment. As this, with most of Europe either proposing lockdown or actually in lockdown, it makes little sense crossing the channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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