StuartO Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-22 12:51 PM ..... But, whatever the institution is called, its function is to turn out students equipped to earn their keep in a changing economy. For the students to benefit from that, they need good, individual, careers guidance, before they choose how and whether they want to go into higher education, and routes back into higher education if they later find the need to do so. .... The polytechnics etc which are now called universities (and the pre-existing universities too) have as their primary function these days putting student bums on seats in order to create income from student fees to cover their considerable costs in salaries, especially of over-paid ViceChancellors and the like. Since income from foreign students will be falling because of COVID-19, they will need more British student bums than ever this year - which the Grade Inflation of 2020 will help to deliver. Some of them will be more than happy selling courses which lead to degrees which have negligible career value. Unfortunately the quality of careers advice available to students from poorer backgrounds is not good - and they are also likely to lack good career advice from family, who are unlikely to have any relevant personal carreer experience to pass on. Sadly the high hopes of Tony Blair's aim of getting more and more students into tertiary education has not worked out well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-22 12:51 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-18 12:00 PM........................…. There are plenty of "Well paid" jobs for those who aren't afraid of hardwork ;-) ........... Why else do we have to rely on migrant labour to pick our veg? :-| .......... Sadly our youth would rather do "drama" judging by the ones that have been on the telly lately *-) ....... Are you seriously suggesting that picking "our veg" (most of which is an any case imported) is well paid? Really? You just don't understand do you? . You may be underestimating the career structure open to fruit and veg pickers Brian. You can work your way up through picking asparagus, turnips, carrots etc - and within twenty years you could be earning almost twice the minimum wage picking raspberries. (But I'm not sure what the company pension arrangements are in that industry, when you retire ). :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-08-21 7:51 PM jumpstart - 2020-08-21 6:41 PM House prices are actually going up. I should know,having just sold my house and moving in to the Motorhome. Sales are now “ offers above” or guide price ,with a lot of people goingfor them as there is no stamp duty currently. So.....So is my equity B-) ....... More proof that Brexit Blighty is ticking over quite nicely :D ............... Despite a Pandemic and 4 years of Loser bitching (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Lets see if I have understood you Do you think Government intervention in the housing market to create a housing shortage, increasing house prices and rents, homelessness and benefit claims, is 'ticking over nicely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 malc d - 2020-08-22 2:10 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-08-22 12:51 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-18 12:00 PM........................…. There are plenty of "Well paid" jobs for those who aren't afraid of hardwork ;-) ........... Why else do we have to rely on migrant labour to pick our veg? :-| .......... Sadly our youth would rather do "drama" judging by the ones that have been on the telly lately *-) ....... Are you seriously suggesting that picking "our veg" (most of which is an any case imported) is well paid? Really? You just don't understand do you? . You may be underestimating the career structure open to fruit and veg pickers Brian. You can work your way up through picking asparagus, turnips, carrots etc - and within twenty years you could be earning almost twice the minimum wage picking raspberries. (But I'm not sure what the company pension arrangements are in that industry, when you retire ). :-D Sounds like it’s jam tomorrow...for the fruit pickers then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 malc d - 2020-08-22 2:10 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-08-22 12:51 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-18 12:00 PM........................…. There are plenty of "Well paid" jobs for those who aren't afraid of hardwork ;-) ........... Why else do we have to rely on migrant labour to pick our veg? :-| .......... Sadly our youth would rather do "drama" judging by the ones that have been on the telly lately *-) ....... Are you seriously suggesting that picking "our veg" (most of which is an any case imported) is well paid? Really? You just don't understand do you? You may be underestimating the career structure open to fruit and veg pickers Brian. You can work your way up through picking asparagus, turnips, carrots etc - and within twenty years you could be earning almost twice the minimum wage picking raspberries. (But I'm not sure what the company pension arrangements are in that industry, when you retire ). :-D Pension? One punnet of strawberries per year - and think yourselves bloody lucky! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 22, 2020 Share Posted August 22, 2020 John52 - 2020-08-22 2:20 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-21 7:51 PM jumpstart - 2020-08-21 6:41 PM House prices are actually going up. I should know,having just sold my house and moving in to the Motorhome. Sales are now “ offers above” or guide price ,with a lot of people goingfor them as there is no stamp duty currently. So.....So is my equity B-) ....... More proof that Brexit Blighty is ticking over quite nicely :D ............... Despite a Pandemic and 4 years of Loser bitching (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Lets see if I have understood you Do you think Government intervention in the housing market to create a housing shortage, increasing house prices and rents, homelessness and benefit claims, is 'ticking over nicely? Sunlit uplands etc, he's been successfully brainwashed as a paid up cult member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 malc d - 2020-08-22 2:10 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-08-22 12:51 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-18 12:00 PM........................…. There are plenty of "Well paid" jobs for those who aren't afraid of hardwork ;-) ........... Why else do we have to rely on migrant labour to pick our veg? :-| .......... Sadly our youth would rather do "drama" judging by the ones that have been on the telly lately *-) ....... Are you seriously suggesting that picking "our veg" (most of which is an any case imported) is well paid? Really? You just don't understand do you? . You may be underestimating the career structure open to fruit and veg pickers Brian. You can work your way up through picking asparagus, turnips, carrots etc - and within twenty years you could be earning almost twice the minimum wage picking raspberries. (But I'm not sure what the company pension arrangements are in that industry, when you retire ). :-D Judging by the mini building boom going on in Boston ;-) ........... They are clearly earning enough to pay a mortgage :D .......... Or is its because they're not up to their necks in Useless Degree debt? >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 John52 - 2020-08-22 2:20 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-21 7:51 PM jumpstart - 2020-08-21 6:41 PM House prices are actually going up. I should know,having just sold my house and moving in to the Motorhome. Sales are now “ offers above” or guide price ,with a lot of people goingfor them as there is no stamp duty currently. So.....So is my equity B-) ....... More proof that Brexit Blighty is ticking over quite nicely :D ............... Despite a Pandemic and 4 years of Loser bitching (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Lets see if I have understood you Do you think Government intervention in the housing market to create a housing shortage, increasing house prices and rents, homelessness and benefit claims, is 'ticking over nicely? Plenty of cheap houses out there ;-) .......... https://www.moveiq.co.uk/blog/buying/10-cheapest-places-buy-house-uk/#: I see you are now of no fixed abode.......Have you sold it?..........Or has the council taken it back off you for leaving empty all the time? :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-22 8:57 AM pelmetman - 2020-08-19 3:51 PM...………………………..You do realise at elections you vote for a polictical party, not the leader of the party ;-) ................. Actually, you don't. You vote (or are supposed to vote) for the candidate you judge would be the best representative for your constituency in Parliament. Those who vote for party sheep only get party sheep as MPs - which has a lot to say on the current state of our government. Baaa, baaa, 650 times? :-D You might vote for the local one trick pony Brian ;-) ......... I'm looking at the bigger picture :D .......... Seems like my choice of party is doing quite well at rounding up you Losers and shepherding you out of the EU >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-08-23 9:17 AM John52 - 2020-08-22 2:20 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-21 7:51 PM jumpstart - 2020-08-21 6:41 PM House prices are actually going up. I should know,having just sold my house and moving in to the Motorhome. Sales are now “ offers above” or guide price ,with a lot of people goingfor them as there is no stamp duty currently. So.....So is my equity B-) ....... More proof that Brexit Blighty is ticking over quite nicely :D ............... Despite a Pandemic and 4 years of Loser bitching (lol) (lol) (lol) ........... Lets see if I have understood you Do you think Government intervention in the housing market to create a housing shortage, increasing house prices and rents, homelessness and benefit claims, is 'ticking over nicely? Plenty of cheap houses out there ;-) .......... https://www.moveiq.co.uk/blog/buying/10-cheapest-places-buy-house-uk/#: I see you are now of no fixed abode.......Have you sold it?..........Or has the council taken it back off you for leaving empty all the time? :D ......... So the question was so awkward you had to change the subject again. Your list of the 'cheapest' (not that cheap for those in the gig economy) seems comparable with those places hardest hit by Brexit & BoJo's catastrophic handling of Covid - No Jobs. Wher there are jobs the housing tends to be unaffordable. I had forgotten to update my profile - done it now. I was only of no fixed abode during the lockdown ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-08-23 9:30 AM Seems like my choice of party is doing quite well at rounding up you Losers and shepherding you out of the EU >:-) ........ Forcing us all out of the EU. What makes you think you aren't Losing like the rest of us. Especially when your Hero BoJo is effectively taxing you and giving your money to us in Scotland (and Wales, Northern Ireland, Her Majesty's Tax havens and everywhere else he buys votes with your money to maintain his empire at your expense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-08-21 7:51 PM So.....So is my equity B-) ....... More proof that Brexit Blighty is ticking over quite nicely :D ............... .......... All of us who are fortunate enough to be freeholders have seen our 'Equity' grow. But how does that make us better off? Makes us worse off because we get taxed more to pay for housing benefits. Especially in England where you are taxed to send money to Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland etc to buy votes for BoJo at your expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 StuartO - 2020-08-22 12:50 PM The point I was making Brian is that individualists like you, who like to think they could get things right for everyone if only they would all see things as you do, are a complete practical irrelevance in our democracy. That doesn't stop you sounding off from your soap box of course but on a forum like this one only a tiny number of people read this Chatterbox section and generally speaking you are preaching to the unconvertable. True, but that doesn't make it wrong, and it remains worth stating - because it just might lead some who read to consider how they exercise their voting rights, and possibly even give consideration to why so many come to be represented by so few. Our electoral system does not properly reflect our electorate which, ultimately, is bad for our democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-08-23 9:12 AM...…………………..Or is its because they're not up to their necks in Useless Degree debt? >:-) ......... So what is your quarrel with education generally, and degrees in particular? How do you manage to get your posts onto this forum? Who was it that foresaw, and then created the means for all that technology. Did they not need education to be able to do that? If you want some to pick veg, does someone not have to show them how to de the job? Is that not education? Should everyone be sentenced to a world where things that have been discovered are forgotten when the discoverer dies, so that those who come after them have to make their own discoveries, endlessly going in circles without benefit? Do you never ask yourself why we stopped living in caves and began building shelters from wood, turf, and stone, which required us to discover how to control fire, and make cutting tools, and cook - and then teach the succeeding generations those things. Do you not realise the extent to which you stand on the shoulders of people who passed on their knowledge by word of mouth, then writing, then pictures, then moving pictures, then sound recording, and finally the internet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-23 1:04 PM StuartO - 2020-08-22 12:50 PM The point I was making Brian is that individualists like you, who like to think they could get things right for everyone if only they would all see things as you do, are a complete practical irrelevance in our democracy. That doesn't stop you sounding off from your soap box of course but on a forum like this one only a tiny number of people read this Chatterbox section and generally speaking you are preaching to the unconvertable. True, but that doesn't make it wrong, and it remains worth stating - because it just might lead some who read to consider how they exercise their voting rights, and possibly even give consideration to why so many come to be represented by so few. Our electoral system does not properly reflect our electorate which, ultimately, is bad for our democracy. Quite. There are members of the Flat Earth Society who like to sound off too and given the little attention their ideas get there’s no harm in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-23 1:20 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-23 9:12 AM...…………………..Or is its because they're not up to their necks in Useless Degree debt? >:-) ......... So what is your quarrel with education generally, and degrees in particular? How do you manage to get your posts onto this forum? Who was it that foresaw, and then created the means for all that technology. Did they not need education to be able to do that? If you want some to pick veg, does someone not have to show them how to de the job? Is that not education? Should everyone be sentenced to a world where things that have been discovered are forgotten when the discoverer dies, so that those who come after them have to make their own discoveries, endlessly going in circles without benefit? Do you never ask yourself why we stopped living in caves and began building shelters from wood, turf, and stone, which required us to discover how to control fire, and make cutting tools, and cook - and then teach the succeeding generations those things. Do you not realise the extent to which you stand on the shoulders of people who passed on their knowledge by word of mouth, then writing, then pictures, then moving pictures, then sound recording, and finally the internet? You agreed with my views on degrees and education up thread ;-) ........ Do I need to flag it up? :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-23 1:20 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-23 9:12 AM...…………………..Or is its because they're not up to their necks in Useless Degree debt? >:-) ......... So what is your quarrel with education generally, and degrees in particular? How do you manage to get your posts onto this forum? Who was it that foresaw, and then created the means for all that technology. Did they not need education to be able to do that? Tommy Flowers a GPO engineer who designed and built Colossus, the world's first programmable electronic computer for encryption work at Bletchley during ww2. His background story really is amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-08-23 2:30 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-08-23 1:20 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-23 9:12 AM...…………………..Or is its because they're not up to their necks in Useless Degree debt? >:-) ......... So what is your quarrel with education generally, and degrees in particular? How do you manage to get your posts onto this forum? Who was it that foresaw, and then created the means for all that technology. Did they not need education to be able to do that? If you want some to pick veg, does someone not have to show them how to de the job? Is that not education? Should everyone be sentenced to a world where things that have been discovered are forgotten when the discoverer dies, so that those who come after them have to make their own discoveries, endlessly going in circles without benefit? Do you never ask yourself why we stopped living in caves and began building shelters from wood, turf, and stone, which required us to discover how to control fire, and make cutting tools, and cook - and then teach the succeeding generations those things. Do you not realise the extent to which you stand on the shoulders of people who passed on their knowledge by word of mouth, then writing, then pictures, then moving pictures, then sound recording, and finally the internet? You agreed with my views on degrees and education up thread ;-) ........ Do I need to flag it up? :D .......... Oh no I didn't - just read what I actually wrote! You endlessly denigrate all education, from schools to every form of higher education. What I said was that in my view there is insufficient choice for the kids, almost amounting to university or nothing. I've never seen you advocate anything else as better for some, just all education = bad. So yes, I think you do need to flag it up, otherwise its just a curmudgeonly stream of negativity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-08-23 2:40 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-23 2:30 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-08-23 1:20 PM pelmetman - 2020-08-23 9:12 AM...…………………..Or is its because they're not up to their necks in Useless Degree debt? >:-) ......... So what is your quarrel with education generally, and degrees in particular? How do you manage to get your posts onto this forum? Who was it that foresaw, and then created the means for all that technology. Did they not need education to be able to do that? If you want some to pick veg, does someone not have to show them how to de the job? Is that not education? Should everyone be sentenced to a world where things that have been discovered are forgotten when the discoverer dies, so that those who come after them have to make their own discoveries, endlessly going in circles without benefit? Do you never ask yourself why we stopped living in caves and began building shelters from wood, turf, and stone, which required us to discover how to control fire, and make cutting tools, and cook - and then teach the succeeding generations those things. Do you not realise the extent to which you stand on the shoulders of people who passed on their knowledge by word of mouth, then writing, then pictures, then moving pictures, then sound recording, and finally the internet? You agreed with my views on degrees and education up thread ;-) ........ Do I need to flag it up? :D .......... Oh no I didn't - just read what I actually wrote! You endlessly denigrate all education, from schools to every form of higher education. What I said was that in my view there is insufficient choice for the kids, almost amounting to university or nothing. I've never seen you advocate anything else as better for some, just all education = bad. So yes, I think you do need to flag it up, otherwise its just a curmudgeonly stream of negativity. Well you'd be wrong again ;-) ....... I don't have a problem with folk being taught how to read and write or do sums :D ........ As some bright academic years ago called it "The Three R's"?........I can only assume he was dyslexic 8-) ....... Plus you'd be wrong about me not advocating anything elese *-) ........ Anything else has got to be better than ending 50k in debt with a USELESS DEGREE and flipping burgers ........Even I'm bright enough to work that out >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 School principals are commenting that they don’t have any directives from government on what to do if children prove positive with CV once schools return. Some have advised them to make it up as they go along.........the Government do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-08-23 3:18 PM School principals are commenting that they don’t have any directives from government on what to do if children prove positive with CV once schools return. Some have advised them to make it up as they go along.........the Government do. School principals cant be very bright if they don't know what to do *-) ......... Don't you know what to do if someone gets Chinky Flu in your house? 8-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Send 500 people home? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 Oh..wait a moment....they’ve got to be cleaver, you say.....so they have to use school funds to pay mates of theirs to advise them ...as that’s what the government does ...innit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-08-23 4:07 PM Send 500 people home? Well if I were a head prick ;-) ......... I'd immediatley isolate that class bubble and send them home, then have the rest of their year bubble tested to see if it was a isolated case........ But I guess that's coz I'm a know nuffink idiot who can still recall his "basic" training on how to respond to a virus.......... unlike you thick as mince clever folk >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-08-23 2:48 PM...................................Well you'd be wrong again ;-) ....... 1 I don't have a problem with folk being taught how to read and write or do sums :D ........ 2 As some bright academic years ago called it "The Three R's"?........I can only assume he was dyslexic 8-) ....... 3 Plus you'd be wrong about me not advocating anything elese *-) ........ 4 Anything else has got to be better than ending 50k in debt with a USELESS DEGREE and flipping burgers ........Even I'm bright enough to work that out >:-) ........ 1 What, just that and no more? You really do want a very poorly informed world, don't you? Why? 2 See here: http://tinyurl.com/y4gx4kw4 Half a minute, and you could have dispelled half a century's ignorance, just by using the first of the Rs. :-D 3 I haven't seen what you advocate, only what you denigrate. 4 But most graduates don't emerge with a useless degree, and relatively few with a £K50 bill. I didn't, and don't, agree with the charges. It was Blair who introduced them (on the rather bogus pretext, IMO, that it was unfair for higher education to be funded from general taxation, because it meant lower income families were subsidising the education of the children of wealthy families), but it was your mates who raised them to present levels, including the usurious interest rates on student loans. It was as though no low income family never benefited from advice or medical care from university educated lawyers or clinicians. Typical, blinkered, party dogma. What is needed, if charges and loans are to fund higher education, is informed, properly targeted, careers advice, where some students have to be advised that if they study certain subjects, they are unlikely to earn sufficient to pay off their debts. But, above all, what I want to see is the reintroduction of locally accessible polytechnics and technical colleges for vocational training, leaving universities for the purely academic pursuits. Having to write a dissertation when training as an artist contributes nothing to the student's ability to paint or sculpt. Kids don't train as artists to write about it, they train to do it. So, bring back Art Colleges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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