Vaccines,anyone..?

[Bulletguy]

 

A Birmingham mosque has been converted into a Covid vaccination centre as the city begins offering jabs 24 hours a day. Two people at a time are being vaccinated in the multi-purpose hall at the Al-Abbas Islamic Centre in Balsall Heath.

 

Imam Nuru Mohammed said they stepped in with the intention of helping ‘people who are not well-informed about the vaccination’, amid concern that false rumours were targeting religious communities. He said: ‘It will send a very strong positive message to the wider Muslim community, not only here in Birmingham but in the entire country, because I think this is the first mosque within the country opening its doors for vaccination to take place.

 

It comes as two NHS trusts – University Hospitals Birmingham (UHB) and Nottinghamshire’s Sherwood Forest – began a round-the-clock vaccination pilot.

 

 

https://tinyurl.com/y3bypqoa

[malc d]

Bulletguy - 2021-01-21 7:52 PM

 

malc d - 2021-01-21 6:09 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2021-01-21 2:43 PM

 

jumpstart - 2021-01-21 1:55 PM

 

Not just caution... lockdown still applies.

Also the jabs don't stop you getting covid ,just make you more able to survive it without going to hospital.

The effectiveness is pretty high though. This was taken from an email I had from Parmacy2U.

 

How effective are the vaccines?

The results show both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine to be up to 95% effective against coronavirus and the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine to be 70% effective overall. The studies also showed a strong immune response in older people for the Oxford vaccine.

 

 

I'd rather rely on the information that the manufacturers of the vaccines give, and the doctors who adminster them give.

 

Everyone else seems to give a ' political ' opinion.

 

:-|

It's from Pharmacy2U Malc which is contracted to NHS. Possibly UK's largest dispensary of medication so aren't likely to post misleading info.

 

 

How are the vaccines given?

 

All three vaccines require patients to receive two doses by an injection given in the upper arm muscle. The second dose for the Pfizer vaccine was originally suggested to be given three weeks after the first dose, however has now been changed to up to 12 weeks.

 

This is because the Government is prioritising giving the first dose to as many ‘at risk’ people as possible because having the first vaccine alone does provide some protection against coronavirus.

 

The Oxford University vaccine’s second dose is given 12 weeks after the first and the Moderna vaccine is recommended to have the second dose 28 days after the first vaccine.

 

 

Well that might convince you, but they don't convince me.

 

Three vaccines. The Oxford and Moderna vaccines will follow the manufacturers instructions for second dose.

The Moderna second dose wil be given in only 28 days.

 

The Pfizer second dose will be delayed from 3 weeks to 12 weeks ( against the advice of the manufacturers,Israeli experts AND Dr. Fauci in the USA ) because , in my opinion, Boris Johnson wants to get the numbers up faster to make his charts look better.

 

IF as Johnson claims, they are only giving one dose of Pfizer to allow twice as many people to have a first jab, why are they not delaying the second Moderna jab as well ?

 

When questioned on TV the medics THINK that a delay is PROBABLY safe. Sounds like the decision of a computer programme to me.

The Govt. says the single dose will " provide SOME protection " - but no-one agrees on how much.

 

For the sake of all those vulnerable people he is taking a chance on - I hope they haven't made a big mistake.

 

:-(

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2021-01-21 9:53 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2021-01-21 7:52 PM

 

malc d - 2021-01-21 6:09 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2021-01-21 2:43 PM

 

jumpstart - 2021-01-21 1:55 PM

 

Not just caution... lockdown still applies.

Also the jabs don't stop you getting covid ,just make you more able to survive it without going to hospital.

The effectiveness is pretty high though. This was taken from an email I had from Parmacy2U.

 

How effective are the vaccines?

The results show both the Pfizer and Moderna vaccine to be up to 95% effective against coronavirus and the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine to be 70% effective overall. The studies also showed a strong immune response in older people for the Oxford vaccine.

 

 

I'd rather rely on the information that the manufacturers of the vaccines give, and the doctors who adminster them give.

 

Everyone else seems to give a ' political ' opinion.

 

:-|

It's from Pharmacy2U Malc which is contracted to NHS. Possibly UK's largest dispensary of medication so aren't likely to post misleading info.

 

 

How are the vaccines given?

 

All three vaccines require patients to receive two doses by an injection given in the upper arm muscle. The second dose for the Pfizer vaccine was originally suggested to be given three weeks after the first dose, however has now been changed to up to 12 weeks.

 

This is because the Government is prioritising giving the first dose to as many ‘at risk’ people as possible because having the first vaccine alone does provide some protection against coronavirus.

 

The Oxford University vaccine’s second dose is given 12 weeks after the first and the Moderna vaccine is recommended to have the second dose 28 days after the first vaccine.

 

 

Well that might convince you, but they don't convince me.

 

Three vaccines. The Oxford and Moderna vaccines will follow the manufacturers instructions for second dose.

The Moderna second dose wil be given in only 28 days.

 

The Pfizer second dose will be delayed from 3 weeks to 12 weeks ( against the advice of the manufacturers,Israeli experts AND Dr. Fauci in the USA ) because , in my opinion, Boris Johnson wants to get the numbers up faster to make his charts look better.

 

IF as Johnson claims, they are only giving one dose of Pfizer to allow twice as many people to have a first jab, why are they not delaying the second Moderna jab as well ?

 

When questioned on TV the medics THINK that a delay is PROBABLY safe. Sounds like the decision of a computer programme to me.

The Govt. says the single dose will " provide SOME protection " - but no-one agrees on how much.

 

For the sake of all those vulnerable people he is taking a chance on - I hope they haven't made a big mistake.

 

:-(

I agree with you on the point you mention here in relation to my later post where i posted the entire email. My first quote was just about effectivity rating of each vaccine.

[malc d]

It's good to see the BMA coming out on the side of the people this morning.

 

It's becoming a battle between senior medical brains and government computer programmes.

 

 

:-|

[StuartO]

It's worth remembering that the BMA is the doctors' trades union, not an academic body, like the various medical Royal Colleges. The doctor who spoke on Sky this morning was the Chairman of the GPs Committee, ie their chief negotiator. He spoke well and by no means oversold the idea of a six week interval instead of 12, which is what the WHO recommend, and it was the journalist who was pushing him to try to make a controversy of it, which he wouldn't go along with. The UK decison to go for a 12 week interval between doses is still valid as a way of getting the whole population done asap.

 

Coincidentally I went for my first vaccine dose this morning. The set up was really impressive and efficient. They had for vaccination rooms in action and were injecting around 50 people per hour. Lots of volunteer marshals, really good. Made me feel joyful that there were so many good people doing good at this time.

[malc d]

StuartO - 2021-01-23 10:13 AM

 

It's worth remembering that the BMA is the doctors' trades union, not an academic body, like the various medical Royal Colleges. The doctor who spoke on Sky this morning was the Chairman of the GPs Committee, ie their chief negotiator. He spoke well and by no means oversold the idea of a six week interval instead of 12, which is what the WHO recommend, and it was the journalist who was pushing him to try to make a controversy of it, which he wouldn't go along with.

 

The UK decison to go for a 12 week interval between doses is still valid as a way of getting the whole population done asap.

 

.

 

I don't think Pfizers ( who made and thoroughly tested their vaccine ) are in the doctors trades union, and they are strongly opposed to the governments decision.

 

The U.K. plan is not to stop people getting the virus - it is to keep people out of hospital.

 

We will have to wait for the inquiry in a couple of years time to see who was right.

 

:-|

 

p.s. Being a " trade union " doesn't make the DOCTORS wrong.

[Barryd999]

malc d - 2021-01-23 10:25 AM

 

StuartO - 2021-01-23 10:13 AM

 

It's worth remembering that the BMA is the doctors' trades union, not an academic body, like the various medical Royal Colleges. The doctor who spoke on Sky this morning was the Chairman of the GPs Committee, ie their chief negotiator. He spoke well and by no means oversold the idea of a six week interval instead of 12, which is what the WHO recommend, and it was the journalist who was pushing him to try to make a controversy of it, which he wouldn't go along with.

 

The UK decison to go for a 12 week interval between doses is still valid as a way of getting the whole population done asap.

 

.

 

I don't think Pfizers ( who made and thoroughly tested their vaccine ) are in the doctors trades union, and they are strongly opposed to the governments decision.

 

The U.K. plan is not to stop people getting the virus - it is to keep people out of hospital.

 

We will have to wait for the inquiry in a couple of years time to see who was right.

 

:-|

 

p.s. Being a " trade union " doesn't make the DOCTORS wrong.

 

Its a total gamble. Might work, might explode in the governments face. I suspect its also so they can say we are world beating in getting the vaccine out to as many people as possible but they are not "vaccined" until the course is complete. Its only half a treatment. They did the same with counting PPE stocks. Counted a pair of gloves as two items FFS! *-)

[StuartO]

Well, I was happy to have my first dose and will be happy to eleven weeks for the second - or whatever they decide for me. Lots of clever people have worked hard to make these vaccines available and I’m grateful. I appreciate that our Government (i.e. the politicians) haven’t always got it absolutely right but it’s been a learning curve and I’m happy they’ve done their best. Likewise the Chief Medic and Scientist.

[HarveyHeaven]

Malc'd .....yes, indeed, my husband is not yet 70 so life will go on much as normal for us. we will continue to wear our masks, wash our hands, tirelessly, and keep our social distance but I'm certain one I receive the jab I will heave a sigh of relief that my risk of death from the virus is considerably reduced.

[malc d]

StuartO - 2021-01-23 11:40 AM

 

 

. Lots of clever people have worked hard to make these vaccines available and I’m grateful.

 

 

 

Well I am certainly with you there - I am extremely grateful to the brilliant scienists who made the vaccines available in such a short time.

 

I'm just not happy with the government choosing to ignore their instructions on how it should be used.

 

 

:-|

[Barryd999]

StuartO - 2021-01-23 11:40 AM

 

Well, I was happy to have my first dose and will be happy to eleven weeks for the second - or whatever they decide for me. Lots of clever people have worked hard to make these vaccines available and I’m grateful. I appreciate that our Government (i.e. the politicians) haven’t always got it absolutely right but it’s been a learning curve and I’m happy they’ve done their best. Likewise the Chief Medic and Scientist.

 

The government have had nothing to do with the Vaccines until they decided themselves to meddle with the Vaccine procedure. That has been their only input. As you may or may not be aware my career is (was) in IT and it reminds me of some of my clients. I would put in systems that were designed to work, be secure and should be trouble free as long as you followed the guidelines and maintenance. There were always the "Fiddlers" that knew better of course. I made a fair amount of money from them fixing their mistakes. Those that followed the guidelines and didnt "Fiddle". Hardly ever heard from them.

 

Its a tremendous achievement by the scientists. Lets hope for the UK at least Johnson hasnt ruined it and put us all in jeopardy.

[StuartO]

I was never either virologist or immunologist but I do know that the immune response generated by vaccines has short (antibody related) and longer lasting (immune memory cell related) elements and the spacing between initial doses of a vaccine (and subsequent booster intervals when required) have to be carefully judged to optimise the immunity achieved. In the case of mutating virus illnesses like influenza (and probably COVID-19 in due course) there are other complexities involved in sustaining and optimising immunisation too.

 

Pfizer will have a different perspective (that of optimising the process of initial immunisation for an individual patient) than the experts managing our outbreak who face the urgency of keeping as many people as possible alive with a finite amount of vaccine. And there will be different opinions among expert and groups of experts, for example UK’s Chief Scientist versus WHO, especially when they are all on a learning curve and they are looking at different populations (UK versus global) and different mixes of virus variant. There are multiple correct answers, each of which will become rapidly outdated as virus and situations change.

 

I’m happy with having had a starter dose of vaccine which will reduce my risk of dying from COVID-19 even if I still might get quite ill. It’s up to me to keep trying to avoid getting infected at all.

[colin]

The first death amongst those who had first jab was recorded a few weeks back, the chap died two days before he would have received second dose.

[StuartO]

colin - 2021-01-23 1:43 PM

 

The first death amongst those who had first jab was recorded a few weeks back, the chap died two days before he would have received second dose.

 

If it had been a death caused by coronavirus vaccine it would have made big headlines. Vaccinating old people raises a likelihood that some will pop their clogs entirely coincidentally. Got a link to a press report?

[colin]

StuartO - 2021-01-23 2:33 PM

 

colin - 2021-01-23 1:43 PM

 

The first death amongst those who had first jab was recorded a few weeks back, the chap died two days before he would have received second dose.

 

If it had been a death caused by coronavirus vaccine it would have made big headlines. Vaccinating old people raises a likelihood that some will pop their clogs entirely coincidentally. Got a link to a press report?

 

Maybe I should have explained better, it was the first reported death from CV-19 of someone who had already got the jab, we can expect more as it seems many who have had the jab think they are now immune and drop their guard. He was just unlucky and caught it in hospital.

https://www.doncasterfreepress.co.uk/news/people/stay-safe-warning-doncaster-granddad-dies-covid-nearly-two-weeks-after-being-vaccinated-3090110

[Brian Kirby]

StuartO - 2021-01-23 2:33 PM

colin - 2021-01-23 1:43 PM

The first death amongst those who had first jab was recorded a few weeks back, the chap died two days before he would have received second dose.

If it had been a death caused by coronavirus vaccine it would have made big headlines. Vaccinating old people raises a likelihood that some will pop their clogs entirely coincidentally. Got a link to a press report?

This might be the one: https://tinyurl.com/yxk33pa7 (Its the same report as Colin just posted above :-D)

It seems he'd had the first dose on Dec 16 and was due the second on 4 Jan. He was admitted to hospital due to a suspected kidney infection, where he was diagnosed with Covid and put on a ventilator, but died on Jan 6. The time of the hospital admission wasn't given, and it is not clear whether the suspected kidney infection was actually due to Covid symptoms, or where he may have picked up the virus.

 

However, it seems reasonably clear that the vaccination has little useful effect for the first two weeks following the first injection, with its protective benefit only arriving after the third week. It seems he must have picked up the virus relatively soon after the first injection, before he had developed sufficient anti-body to fight it off. It appears just a very sad and unfortunate chance conjunction of events.

[colin]

Brian Kirby - 2021-01-23 3:24 PM

 

However, it seems reasonably clear that the vaccination has little useful effect for the first two weeks following the first injection, with its protective benefit only arriving after the third week. It seems he must have picked up the virus relatively soon after the first injection, before he had developed sufficient anti-body to fight it off. It appears just a very sad and unfortunate chance conjunction of events.

 

Unfortunately .gov haven't seen fit to fully advise those getting the jab of it's limitations, surely just a small leaflet would suffice. How many times have we seen on TV patients saying along lines of "now I can go and hug my grandchildren", t'other week on radio phone in someone said this, the hosts didn't even bother to tell her not too.

[malc d]

colin - 2021-01-23 3:48 PM

 

Brian Kirby - 2021-01-23 3:24 PM

 

However, it seems reasonably clear that the vaccination has little useful effect for the first two weeks following the first injection, with its protective benefit only arriving after the third week. It seems he must have picked up the virus relatively soon after the first injection, before he had developed sufficient anti-body to fight it off. It appears just a very sad and unfortunate chance conjunction of events.

 

Unfortunately .gov haven't seen fit to fully advise those getting the jab of it's limitations, surely just a small leaflet would suffice.

 

.

 

After my first ( Pfizer ) jab the doctor told me to continue being careful as I was only about 50 to 55% protected from the virus - and that wouldn't be until a couple of weeks after the jab.

 

Soon after I got home some politician was on the TV saying I was now about 80% protected.

 

We just have to choose who we believe.

 

:-|

[Bulletguy]

malc d - 2021-01-23 12:05 PM

 

StuartO - 2021-01-23 11:40 AM

 

 

. Lots of clever people have worked hard to make these vaccines available and I’m grateful.

 

 

 

Well I am certainly with you there - I am extremely grateful to the brilliant scienists who made the vaccines available in such a short time.

 

I'm just not happy with the government choosing to ignore their instructions on how it should be used.

 

 

:-|

Nobody should be and government shouldn't be ignoring what the manufacturers have recommended. Johnson and his wrecking ball crew have done enough damage without doing more. The sooner we are rid of him the better and a leader installed.....only trouble is the Tories chucked out what few decent politicians they had.

[CurtainRaiser]

A cynic might suggest that they have adopted the single vaccine and wait 12 weeks so that they can boast they're world beating and have completed 4,500,000 vaccinations, when in fact by the manufacturers own definition they have only completed 500,000 vaccinations.

 

Obviously this government would never involve themselves with such crude propaganda.

[jumpstart]

The Independent: Covid: Delaying second dose of vaccine increases risk of new resistant strain, Sage papers reveal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-uk-new-strain-sage-b1791438.html

 

Worrying...

 

[Barryd999]

I honestly was delighted when i heard about the Vaccine, especially the Oxford one as I had a small involvement with it. I assumed rather naively it seems that for once we could place a good level of trust in it because the government had nothing to do with it but no, they have to stick their oar in and now as predicted more and more evidence as always is coming to light to highlight the risk. Nobody else is going rogue with their roll out plan as far as I can see.

 

Its just possible that it might not be a bad idea but its simply reckless and I suspect the primary goal for Johnson and co is to boost their own ratings not to save lives.

[soarer]

It’s times like this when you realise only the uk

Could possibly have a magic bullet and miss the feck Ing target

[StuartO]

jumpstart - 2021-01-23 4:37 PM

 

The Independent: Covid: Delaying second dose of vaccine increases risk of new resistant strain, Sage papers reveal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-uk-new-strain-sage-b1791438.html

 

Worrying...

 

I've just read this article. It's a journalistically sensationalised account of what the scienists have actually said. There is a theoretical possibility that a person who has had only one dose who gets infected after the three week point when he would normally have had the second dose will resist the virus less efficiently opportunity to reporduce and therefore possibly mutate in doing so is restricted to the times when it is living in a human cell (i.e. infecting someone) the theoretical extra infection time might create a higher (but still small) chance of mutating. Since most mutations are unfavourable the small additional chance of a mutation having adverse effect on the outbreak is very small.

 

But without sensationalising this possibility there would be no story to print. It doesn't sound like anything to get worried about to me, especially if delaying the second dose is saving more lives by getting more people their first dose.

[Bulletguy]

Barryd999 - 2021-01-23 5:11 PM

 

Its just possible that it might not be a bad idea but its simply reckless and I suspect the primary goal for Johnson and co is to boost their own ratings not to save lives.

It's reckless behaviour to ignore a drug manufacturers instructions.....I don't see how that could ever become "not a bad idea"! This is a life saving vaccine not vitamin tablets where it doesn't matter if you miss a few days/weeks.