Bulletguy Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 malc d - 2021-01-24 10:46 AM Barryd999 - 2021-01-24 9:23 AM Birdbrain - 2021-01-24 8:08 AM UK = Nearly 10% of population vaccinated ... EU = 1.8% of population vaccinated ... Boris bad guy ... EU good guy ... Chuckle Except we have not vaccinated anywhere near 10%. . ... and the EU isn't a country. :-| Brainless thinks it is but funniest part is going off his figures, with a total population of 450 million, 1.8% puts the EU ahead of the UK by almost 2 million! (lol)(lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Bulletguy - 2021-01-24 4:35 PM malc d - 2021-01-24 10:46 AM Barryd999 - 2021-01-24 9:23 AM Birdbrain - 2021-01-24 8:08 AM UK = Nearly 10% of population vaccinated ... EU = 1.8% of population vaccinated ... Boris bad guy ... EU good guy ... Chuckle Except we have not vaccinated anywhere near 10%. . ... and the EU isn't a country. :-| Brainless thinks it is but funniest part is going off his figures, with a total population of 450 million, 1.8% puts the EU ahead of the UK by almost 2 million! (lol)(lol) Dont recall ever once claiming the EU is a county Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Lies,lies and more lies.... The Canary: Matt Hancock’s lies just crashed and burned live on TV. https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2021/01/24/matt-hancocks-lies-just-crashed-and-burned-live-on-tv/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Chuckle ... ... Merci Macron xxx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-01-24 8:03 PM Lies,lies and more lies.... The Canary: Matt Hancock’s lies just crashed and burned live on TV. https://www.thecanary.co/trending/2021/01/24/matt-hancocks-lies-just-crashed-and-burned-live-on-tv/ Precisely the point Barry made in a post up thread. Government are falsely inflating the figures by claiming "over 5 million vaccinated" when the fact is they haven't because 75% have only received their first jab. From your link; Dr Rosie Shire from the Doctors’ Association UK told from the tweet below] Dixon: It’s really important just to mention here that we’re hearing a lot of statistics about three quarters of over-80s have been vaccinated. Well actually, no – they haven’t been. Three quarters of over-80 year-olds have received their first dose of the vaccination. And they’re not going to be fully vaccinated until they’ve received that second dose. And if they’ve had the Pfizer vaccination, we don’t know if they are going to be fully vaccinated when they receive the second dose, because that schedule has been changed from what was studied and what was licenced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 Unbelievable.... Evening Standard: Rioters torch Covid testing facility as Dutch police clash with lockdown protesters in Amsterdam. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/amsterdam-lockdown-protests-fire-covid-testing-b900951.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 24, 2021 Share Posted January 24, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-01-24 8:52 PM Unbelievable.... Evening Standard: Rioters torch Covid testing facility as Dutch police clash with lockdown protesters in Amsterdam. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/amsterdam-lockdown-protests-fire-covid-testing-b900951.html Idiots are probably Covid deniers and anti-vaxxers. Their time will come when any one of them is gasping for breath in hospital with the Grim Reaper hovering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Birdbrain - 2021-01-24 8:12 PM Chuckle ... ... Merci Macron xxx Where Great Britain leads.......the EU trails behind >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Here are more extremists , probably should be excluded from getting a jab...... Al Jazeera English: Israeli ultra-Orthodox clash with police over school closures. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/1/24/israeli-ultra-orthodox-clash-with-police-over-school-closures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Credit where credit is due. The roll out of the first shots of the vaccine does seem to be going well but lets remember who is responsible for that. The NHS and Public health England. Not the Tories. For once we have a Covid success story. Two vaccines developed and approved in record time in Europe through cooperation and a monumental effort by European scientists and then rolled out by our NHS in double quick time. The reason its a success is the Government have had fcuk all to do with it! Just look at everything they have had a hand in like the failed track and trace system, the procurement of PPE and just about anything they have spaffed billions on to their dodgy mates where everyone down the chain skims a piece off the top of the pie before what is delivered is total s**te. At least (so far) they have been unable to taint this one. Of course they have still stuck their mitts in and decided to meddle with against scientific advice the roll out of the second jab to complete the vaccine. A total gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Barryd999 - 2021-01-25 10:01 AM Of course they have still stuck their mitts in and decided to meddle with against scientific advice the roll out of the second jab to complete the vaccine. A total gamble. There are reports that a number of people have died of the virus after their first jab, while waiting for the second. Let's just hope that does not mean that the governments experiment on the eldely and vulnerable people has not failed. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 malc d - 2021-01-25 10:25 AM Barryd999 - 2021-01-25 10:01 AM Of course they have still stuck their mitts in and decided to meddle with against scientific advice the roll out of the second jab to complete the vaccine. A total gamble. There are reports that a number of people have died of the virus after their first jab, while waiting for the second. Let's just hope that does not mean that the governments experiment on the eldely and vulnerable people has failed. :-( Edited to correct last line ! :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Barryd999 - 2021-01-25 10:01 AM Credit where credit is due. The roll out of the first shots of the vaccine does seem to be going well but lets remember who is responsible for that. The NHS and Public health England. Not the Tories. For once we have a Covid success story. Two vaccines developed and approved in record time in Europe through cooperation and a monumental effort by European scientists and then rolled out by our NHS in double quick time. The reason its a success is the Government have had fcuk all to do with it! Just look at everything they have had a hand in like the failed track and trace system, the procurement of PPE and just about anything they have spaffed billions on to their dodgy mates where everyone down the chain skims a piece off the top of the pie before what is delivered is total s**te. At least (so far) they have been unable to taint this one. Of course they have still stuck their mitts in and decided to meddle with against scientific advice the roll out of the second jab to complete the vaccine. A total gamble. You seem to suffering from memory loss. One of the reasons the UK is in this advantageous position was Boris's gamble on staying out of the EU buying program and going it alone, he was criticised on this very forum for doing this, but it paid off. So 'Credit where credit is due', it's one of the few things .gov has got right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted January 25, 2021 Author Share Posted January 25, 2021 Although overall the figures sound encouraging ,as has been mentioned, they are very "patchy"... I saw figures for our county over the weekend and they were only running at 49% of over 80s having been vaccinated, whereas many of the surrounding counties were at 60-70% upwards(one at 89%!). I also heard/read that the south of our county is only due to START the over 80s this coming Thurs because they haven't received any vaccines yet! Okay, we as a county are "quite" rural but we are no more rural than those around us (and certainly not as rural as many other areas of the UK) and any other "reasons" that there may be for this lag- organisational, vaccine supply etc- are reasons should/could also apply to other areas anyway...? (my OH has a 95 year old relation, who goes in for dialysis three times a week..and he still has not had his jab! ) So we are what?..6+ weeks into vaccinations? and overall we are still only 3/4 the way through those over 80?.... :-S (Edit- Sorry Colin, I crossed your post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 colin - 2021-01-25 11:05 AM Barryd999 - 2021-01-25 10:01 AM Credit where credit is due. The roll out of the first shots of the vaccine does seem to be going well but lets remember who is responsible for that. The NHS and Public health England. Not the Tories. For once we have a Covid success story. Two vaccines developed and approved in record time in Europe through cooperation and a monumental effort by European scientists and then rolled out by our NHS in double quick time. The reason its a success is the Government have had fcuk all to do with it! Just look at everything they have had a hand in like the failed track and trace system, the procurement of PPE and just about anything they have spaffed billions on to their dodgy mates where everyone down the chain skims a piece off the top of the pie before what is delivered is total s**te. At least (so far) they have been unable to taint this one. Of course they have still stuck their mitts in and decided to meddle with against scientific advice the roll out of the second jab to complete the vaccine. A total gamble. You seem to suffering from memory loss. One of the reasons the UK is in this advantageous position was Boris's gamble on staying out of the EU buying program and going it alone, he was criticised on this very forum for doing this, but it paid off. So 'Credit where credit is due', it's one of the few things .gov has got right. What difference would that have made? There is no reason any country could not have done what we did in or out of the Eu program. The government tried to claim that they were able to go ahead first because of Brexit but that was utter tripe. I supported however us rolling out the vaccine when we did as the word from the developers that it had passed all the relevant tests was good enough for me. I am also however sceptical over the governments decision to meddle with the vaccine process by going against the recommended dose intervals to complete the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 For anyone uncertain about the benefits etc of the second dose being delayed, I thought this BBC R4 "More or Less" programme explained the reasoning very well. It is 30 minutes, and well worth the time. Originally broadcast 13 January. If impatient, skip forward about 10 minutes :-) : https://tinyurl.com/yxjcc8kt Further discussions around the same subject, also BBC R4, in a programme series called How to Vaccinate the World. This episode, "The Second Dose", was first broadcast on 11 January: https://tinyurl.com/y42wq3yw and one week later, "Roll on the Roll Out", was broadcast on 18 January: https://tinyurl.com/y5k2b37k Both are 30 minutes. All three give much better information, from some of those involved in the underlying sciences, than anything I've yet heard from government. You may need to re-set the time bar to the beginning in each case, as it seems to have paused where I left off! Also, broadcast on ITV on Tuesday 19 January at 21:00, was a programme called "Outbreak: The Virus That Shook the World": here: https://tinyurl.com/y4jxc5j9 (I'll leave you to fight with ITV's cookies and hub! :-)), that has all sorts of bits of information about the virus, and how, where and when, it spread, including some very interesting information regarding asymptomatic transmission, that I've never seen before and which appears to confound some of the government's claims as to who knew what, and when. It is 90 minutes duration, and is also well worth the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 malc d - 2021-01-25 10:25 AM There are reports that a number of people have died of the virus after their first jab, while waiting for the second. Let's just hope that does not mean that the governments experiment on the eldely and vulnerable people has failed. :-( Not necessarily. Protection from the Vaccine is low during the first 10 - 14 days following vaccination. The time from infection until symptoms develop is in the order of 5 - 7 days. So there is ample time for someone already infected, 'though without symptoms, to be vaccinated and then develop Covid before the vaccine has given sufficient protection, and for someone who has been vaccinated (especially if they think the vaccine gives immediate protection and so disregards the normal preventative precautions) to become infected before the full protection has developed. I don't think there is an "experiment on the elderly". They are merely the first priority group to get the vaccine because they are a) the most liable to end up in hospital if infected, and b) from that, the most liable to die. If, by "experiment on the elderly", you mean the delaying of the second dose by 9 weeks, this does not apply to the elderly alone, but to all those eligible for vaccine in the current programme, whatever place in the priority listing they occupy. This is largely the result of the government's undisciplined libertarian predisposition to late intervention and early relaxation, which ensured the need for three varieties of "lockdown" where one should have been sufficient, which arguably resulted in the development of the more virulent "Kent" strain of the virus, which led to increased rates of infection and hospitalisation, so in turn threatening collapse of the NHS. It is now the only practical, "least worst", response to a highly undesirable situation which is largely of their own making. Pragmatically, it is a case of not letting the perfect get in the way of the good, where sticking to the (deemed perfect) authorised regimen would yield a worse outcome, in terms of spread, hospitalisation, and death, than that anticipated from giving the greatest number the first shot, and delaying the second. Under the circumstances, it was a decision that had to be taken against the calculated outcomes of the two available options. But, it is not without risk. But risk can only be eliminated where is absolute certainty, and there are no absolute certainties with this virus, because it keeps mutating, and no-one can guess what form the next mutation may take. Speed is essential in suppressing the rate of transmission, so getting the greatest number vaccinated as quickly as possible became key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-01-25 12:32 PM I don't think there is an "experiment on the elderly". They are merely the first priority group to get the vaccine because they are a) the most liable to end up in hospital if infected, and b) from that, the most liable to die. If, by "experiment on the elderly", you mean the delaying of the second dose by 9 weeks, this does not apply to the elderly alone, but to all those eligible for vaccine in the current programme, whatever place in the priority listing they occupy. . I call it an experiment because the decision to delay the second jab is not based on known facts or science - it is based on guesswork and probability. ( In other words " We will try this, because we think it's o.k. and see what happens ") When questioned the govt. spokesmen say : " we think " - " it seems likely " - compared to other vaccines " etc. Maybe instead of ' an experiment on the elderly ' I should have said ' an experiment on the first groups ' - although, you appear to agree that the first groups ARE , mainly, the elderly. :-| Edited to add : Maybe extending from three weeks to six weeks would have been less risky - three to twelve seems to me to be a very big gamble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-01-25 9:23 AM Birdbrain - 2021-01-24 8:12 PM Chuckle ... ... Merci Macron xxx Where Great Britain leads.......the EU trails behind >:-) ........... Off the same string....but you ignore in preference to still soaking up the lies peddled by Johnsons government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 malc d - 2021-01-25 12:55 PM Edited to add : Maybe extending from three weeks to six weeks would have been less risky - three to twelve seems to me to be a very big gamble. I haven't listened to Brians radio link as yet but admit this meddling of dosing, apparently against manufacturers instructions is something i'm not at ease with at all. The vaccine is a life saving drug and nobody should be ignoring the manufacturers. It's gambling with peoples lives and that is morally and ethically wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-01-25 11:37 AM For anyone uncertain about the benefits etc of the second dose being delayed, I thought this BBC R4 "More or Less" programme explained the reasoning very well. It is 30 minutes, and well worth the time. Originally broadcast 13 January. If impatient, skip forward about 10 minutes :-) : https://tinyurl.com/yxjcc8kt Further discussions around the same subject, also BBC R4, in a programme series called How to Vaccinate the World. This episode, "The Second Dose", was first broadcast on 11 January: https://tinyurl.com/y42wq3yw and one week later, "Roll on the Roll Out", was broadcast on 18 January: https://tinyurl.com/y5k2b37k Both are 30 minutes. All three give much better information, from some of those involved in the underlying sciences, than anything I've yet heard from government. You may need to re-set the time bar to the beginning in each case, as it seems to have paused where I left off! Also, broadcast on ITV on Tuesday 19 January at 21:00, was a programme called "Outbreak: The Virus That Shook the World": here: https://tinyurl.com/y4jxc5j9 (I'll leave you to fight with ITV's cookies and hub! :-)), that has all sorts of bits of information about the virus, and how, where and when, it spread, including some very interesting information regarding asymptomatic transmission, that I've never seen before and which appears to confound some of the government's claims as to who knew what, and when. It is 90 minutes duration, and is also well worth the time. That ITV links incorrect Brian, goes to quiz shows. This is the one you want. https://www.itv.com/hub/outbreak-the-virus-that-shook-the-world/10a0476a0001 I listened to the relevant bit of the Radio 4 broadcast. Not watched the other two but I still dont see how they have any evidence that a 12 week wait will be either good or bad. Plus it seems something scientists are at loggerheads about. What is of more concern though is the number of mutations this virus suddenly seems to have taken on, especially the South African version which some there are saying it may have found a way round antibodies. So the Elephant in the room is what happens when or if a variant comes along that the vaccinations have no effect on? They will presumably then have to produce a new vaccine for that (if they can) and If it takes a year to vaccinate everyone wont this just end up being the permanent way things are? Restrictions and lockdowns. Its a grim prospect if it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 So ,after all teachers apparently not more likely than average to catch the virus but nurses are. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-01-25 4:16 PM So ,after all teachers apparently not more likely than average to catch the virus but nurses are. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55795608 I think it is important to remember that a lot of the projections that come out of government departments are based on, that dreaded word, ' modelling ' i.e. " our computer programmes tell us " Remember that last year ' algorithms ' were used to decide individual students exam results - without the computers having any details about the individual students abilities. Look how successful that was. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 Bulletguy - 2021-01-25 1:30 PM pelmetman - 2021-01-25 9:23 AM Birdbrain - 2021-01-24 8:12 PM Chuckle ... ... Merci Macron xxx Where Great Britain leads.......the EU trails behind >:-) ........... Off the same string....but you ignore in preference to still soaking up the lies peddled by Johnsons government. Seems to me ;-) ...... Giving you LOSERS the vaccine is a waste of vaccine :-| ......... As it will only prolong your miserable Ex EU lives :D ........ Just being cruel to be kind (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted January 25, 2021 Share Posted January 25, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-01-25 4:28 PM Bulletguy - 2021-01-25 1:30 PM pelmetman - 2021-01-25 9:23 AM Birdbrain - 2021-01-24 8:12 PM Chuckle ... ... Merci Macron xxx Where Great Britain leads.......the EU trails behind >:-) ........... Off the same string....but you ignore in preference to still soaking up the lies peddled by Johnsons government. Seems to me ;-) ...... Giving you LOSERS the vaccine is a waste of vaccine :-| ......... As it will only prolong your miserable Ex EU lives :D ........ Just being cruel to be kind (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Nice to see your intellectual input back again Dave. Just sayin' ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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