jumpstart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Oh no...you haven't been giving out your home address to members of the public again ,have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-01-26 8:04 AM Oh no...you haven't been giving out your home address to members if the public again ,have you? Chuckle. And probably his phone number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Sky News: COVID-19: Announcement on mandatory hotel quarantine 'today', minister says. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-travel-industry-expects-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-to-be-introduced-imminently-12198896 Australia did this months ago and we are still " thinking" about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Barryd999 - 2021-01-25 9:49 PM Bulletguy - 2021-01-25 8:38 PM jumpstart - 2021-01-25 7:22 PM ...and we think we've got it bad... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-brazil-crisis-like-medieval-plague-as-patients-suffocate-without-oxygen-12198178 Doesn't help matters when they have a lunatic Covid denier Bolsonaro as President. :-| Funny how countries run by right wing populist leaders have massively lost control of the virus. Brazil, Trump with his Bleach and Take it on the chin Johnson. I never knew Wales and Scotlands leader were Right Wing? 8-) .......... It's amazing what you find out on here (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Various options are said to be on the table, but Whitehall sources suggested ministers may opt for a more limited system after aviation leaders warned introducing tougher border rules would be "catastrophic" for the industry. The officials said a less sweeping option would apply only to British residents returning from countries with more contagious variants - such as Brazil, South Africa and Portugal Hey...yes...lets water it down and just do the minimum necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 In fact I've just heard of someone who flue from South Africa to Sudan then on to here . This sort of thing would bypass any restrictions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 teflon2 - 2021-01-25 6:31 PM I admit I have no idea of the rights and wrongs of the governments decision I would just like to point out that an accidental 50% lower first dose of the Oxford Astra Zenica vaccination resulted in a massive increase of it's defectiveness from 70% to 90%. so who really knows what is best. It was not that simple, a batch of vaccine had been made 'over strenght' so a reduced dose was given with the idea it would be equivalent to standard dose, but later research showed an underestimate, then, AND THIS IS THE IMPOTANT BIT, the second dose was given at the later 12 week interval. It is thought (but not yet confirmed) that it was the later dosing which upped the effectiveness. This was part of the thinking behind delaying second dose on roll out of vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-01-26 8:15 AM Sky News: COVID-19: Announcement on mandatory hotel quarantine 'today', minister says. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-travel-industry-expects-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-to-be-introduced-imminently-12198896 Australia did this months ago and we are still " thinking" about it. I reckon they know one of the variants (maybe the south African one) is resistant to the vaccine. In which case we are royally fooked! Nothing will stop it, its just delaying the inevitable if thats the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Barryd999 - 2021-01-26 10:20 AM jumpstart - 2021-01-26 8:15 AM Sky News: COVID-19: Announcement on mandatory hotel quarantine 'today', minister says. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-travel-industry-expects-mandatory-hotel-quarantine-to-be-introduced-imminently-12198896 Australia did this months ago and we are still " thinking" about it. I reckon they know one of the variants (maybe the south African one) is resistant to the vaccine. In which case we are royally fooked! Nothing will stop it, its just delaying the inevitable if thats the case. https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2021/01/25/960341384/moderna-finds-covid-19-vaccine-less-effective-against-variant-found-in-south-afr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 malc d - 2021-01-25 5:45 PM Brian Kirby - 2021-01-25 5:32 PM After all, what is the alternative? The most obvious alternative where the Pfizer vaccine is concerned - is to follow the instructions issued by the people who developed it and tested it so thoroughly. I believe that, at the moment, the Moderna vaccine is recommended to be given 4 weeks apart - why not treble that waiting time as well if it gets more people ' vaccinated' ? :-| Ok, but the price of that decision is that fewer people get the vaccine than is presently being achieved, leaving those not "jabbed" still vulnerable and liable to infection, so increasing the number infected, needing pretty much non-existent hospital beds, and ultimately, dying. I agree that decision carries the lowest risk from the point of view of bureaucratic liability (i.e. we just followed the rules), but it also carries a higher risk of increased infections, hospitalisations, and deaths. Neither is optimal, but optimal is no longer an available choice. That was lost this time last year. We are now in the land of choosing the least worst option, where judgement has to be based on knowledge and forecasting. I would be far happier if that were not the case, but given the realistic choices we now have, I'm happy that the advisers know far more about epidemiology, virology, and immunology than I shall ever know, or need (or want! :-)) to know, so I'm also happy to take the least worst path rather than let the perfect get in the way of the good. So, I'll take what is offered when it is available and in the hope that it will work as expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Birdbrain - 2021-01-26 7:06 AM Surprising ... We went to Wetherspoons ... Saw nothing of what you claim ... Apparently its necessary to point out social distancing was reduced to 1 metre for all pubs But still 2 metres outside (This one had a sign outside to that effect) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-01-26 9:45 AM I never knew Wales and Scotlands leader were Right Wing? 8-) .......... It's amazing what you find out on here (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... No one said they were So how do you think you found that out on here? Worst infection and death rates are in England. And the most economic damage as BoJo keeps sending us you loser's money to bribe the crackheads to vote for him, and maintain his empire at you loser's expense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Brian Kirby - 2021-01-26 11:15 AM I agree that decision carries the lowest risk from the point of view of bureaucratic liability (i.e. we just followed the rules), but it also carries a higher risk of increased infections, hospitalisations, and deaths. Neither is optimal, but optimal is no longer an available choice. That was lost this time last year. We are now in the land of choosing the least worst option, where judgement has to be based on knowledge and forecasting. I would be far happier if that were not the case, but given the realistic choices we now have, I'm happy that the advisers know far more about epidemiology, virology, and immunology than I shall ever know, or need (or want! :-)) to know, so I'm also happy to take the least worst path rather than let the perfect get in the way of the good. So, I'll take what is offered when it is available and in the hope that it will work as expected. I still question how much value we should put to what "the scientists" have a say in this: "Dear sir/madam Jonathan Freedland’s comment ‘Lies about Covid, insisting that it was a hoax cooked up by the deep state, led millions of people to drop their guard and get infected” (‘Trump may be gone but his big lie will linger’ Guardian, Jan 15) misses the point. If we look closely at what was being said in official circles in March 2020, we can see quite clearly there was a plan to create ‘herd immunity’ without vaccination. Robert Peston had his usual inside story on March 12 in ‘The Spectator’ with a headline “Herd immunity’ will be vital to stopping Coronavirus’ and wrote of this desirable outcome without mentioning the inevitable huge loss of life involved nor the high chance of it being unachievable. A day later, 3 government scientists sang the same tune: Graham Medley told BBC Newsnight, ‘We’re going to have to generate herd immunity…the only way of developing that in the absence of a vaccine is for the majority of the population to become infected…’ Sir Patrick Vallance said that morning on the Today programme, ‘Our aim is to try and reduce the peak, broaden the peak, not suppress it completely; also because the vast majority of people get a mild illness, to build up some kind of herd immunity.’ Same day, John Edmunds said, ‘The only way to stop this epidemic is indeed to achieve herd immunity’. These people were talking of engineering mass death. It's not as if science is unaware of the Black Death, Myxomatosis, or Dutch Elm Disease. At the time, Boris Johnson was appearing on TV telling us that he was shaking hands with Covid patients. The extraordinary fact is that this idea of ‘herd immunity’ without vaccination is lousy biology. No one knew then how long or short nor how strong or weak the body’s immune response would be to this virus. No one knew how often it would mutate nor how different the mutations would be from the original virus. These scientists were gambling with ‘known unknowns’ some of which would result in no 'herd immunity'. What’s more, the limited ‘herd immunity’ without vaccination that occurs naturally usually involves the evolutionary process of ‘breeding out’ (through death, before they reproduce) of those individuals who are susceptible to the virus and the ‘breeding in’ of those who are resistant, assuming the resistance is inheritable. This takes generations to effect - if ever. The problem for this scenario is that the section of the population most affected by the virus is above ‘breeding’ age! This negates the process by which evolution favours resistant individuals. It seems to me horrific that top scientists were able to put forward their proposals to enact mass killing without being challenged, either on ethical or biological grounds. If you want to find out why or how this government has been lax, chaotic, incompetent and cruel in its approach to Covid-19, it starts here. The consequence is that there have been tens of thousands of deaths, and there are tens of thousands of us with long term or lifetime debilitating consequences. They must never be let off the hook. Yours faithfully Michael Rosen" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 You’ve got to have some sympathy for our politicians.....they are know nothings. When scientists come along with a solution the politicians jump at it. The’ve got no experiance. They just want people to like them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 I think Rosen somewhat misses the point. His piece is retrospective ('though I agree with much of his analysis), referring back to the situation before a vaccine was even in sight, let alone available and in in use. He also selects rather easy targets and his final comments, to me, somewhat traduce the intentions of those concerned, and are unhelpfully hysterical. We could all argue endlessly over history, but it is ultimately pointless. The enemy is not just at the gates: it is in the city. The challenge now is how to proceed from where we are. It should be remembered that the objectives of the vaccine are in the short term to reduce infection, hospitalisation, and deaths, and in the long term exactly to confer herd immunity on the population as a whole. The present death count is equivalent to the entire population of Worcester, and rising. Whatever course is to be adopted has to be based on informed, specialist, advice. Otherwise we regress to shamanism. If we are to distrust "scientists", who should we trust instead? Our politicians have not acquitted themselves very well since the virus was first identified. Yes, there are false prophets (some because they are cynics, some because events prove them wrong despite noble intentions), there always have been and, doubtless, always will be. The key is to choose the right prophets. That is all we can seek to do. I just hope those who convince me prove right! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-01-26 9:45 AM Barryd999 - 2021-01-25 9:49 PM Bulletguy - 2021-01-25 8:38 PM jumpstart - 2021-01-25 7:22 PM ...and we think we've got it bad... https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-brazil-crisis-like-medieval-plague-as-patients-suffocate-without-oxygen-12198178 Doesn't help matters when they have a lunatic Covid denier Bolsonaro as President. :-| Funny how countries run by right wing populist leaders have massively lost control of the virus. Brazil, Trump with his Bleach and Take it on the chin Johnson. I never knew Wales and Scotlands leader were Right Wing? 8-) .......... It's amazing what you find out on here (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... We all live on a tiny island the control of which is mainly in the hands of Johnson! Scotland and Wales in case you hadnt noticed are part of Britain, joined at the hip so to speak. Westminster holds all the data also and never share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 An Australian news reporter on tv this morning was telling how they quarantine there. He'd just returned from working outside Oz so is currently in quarantine. He, and other returning citizens were taken by coach direct from the airport under police escort to the hotel used for quarantine. He was then escorted by to his hotel room where he has to stay for 14 days. No balcony or opening windows and meals are delivered to his locked room. £1700 for 14 days......and they have to pay up front. Bargain!! Would this work in Brexit Blighty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 jumpstart - 2021-01-26 12:48 PM When scientists come along with a solution the politicians jump at it. Scientists *-) More like private enterprise chancers looking to make a fast buck at our expense. With a bung to the Tory party to oil the wheels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 colin - 2021-01-26 10:11 AM teflon2 - 2021-01-25 6:31 PM I admit I have no idea of the rights and wrongs of the governments decision I would just like to point out that an accidental 50% lower first dose of the Oxford Astra Zenica vaccination resulted in a massive increase of it's defectiveness from 70% to 90%. so who really knows what is best. It was not that simple, a batch of vaccine had been made 'over strenght' so a reduced dose was given with the idea it would be equivalent to standard dose, but later research showed an underestimate, then, AND THIS IS THE IMPOTANT BIT, the second dose was given at the later 12 week interval. It is thought (but not yet confirmed) that it was the later dosing which upped the effectiveness. This was part of the thinking behind delaying second dose on roll out of vaccine. Thank you for the clarification Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 teflon2 - 2021-01-26 6:52 PM colin - 2021-01-26 10:11 AM teflon2 - 2021-01-25 6:31 PM I admit I have no idea of the rights and wrongs of the governments decision I would just like to point out that an accidental 50% lower first dose of the Oxford Astra Zenica vaccination resulted in a massive increase of it's defectiveness from 70% to 90%. so who really knows what is best. It was not that simple, a batch of vaccine had been made 'over strenght' so a reduced dose was given with the idea it would be equivalent to standard dose, but later research showed an underestimate, then, AND THIS IS THE IMPOTANT BIT, the second dose was given at the later 12 week interval. It is thought (but not yet confirmed) that it was the later dosing which upped the effectiveness. This was part of the thinking behind delaying second dose on roll out of vaccine. Thank you for the clarification Colin. I realise that for the average person, they aren't very interested in the 'nitty gritty', but it is quite hard to find the details, even the 'half' dose and 90% figure where not initially given as a standard press release, it was given to shareholders to calm the market when it seemed Pfizer vaccine was much better. More worrying to me, AstraZeneca didn't give trials data to the European regulator until about a month after the final trials data was given to UK regulator, it does make you wonder why the delay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 26, 2021 Share Posted January 26, 2021 Quarantine..... The Guardian: Life in hotel quarantine: 'I'm on day two. It's around day 11 things get difficult'. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/26/life-in-hong-kong-hotel-quarantine-im-on-day-two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 We really shouldn't be so dependent on the vaccine Britain: official death toll is 100,000. For the sake of comparison, look at the following: Taiwan: 7 (pop 24 million) Japan: 5,200 (pop 128 million) S Korea: 1, 400 (pop 51 million) Australia: 909 (pop 26 million) NZ: 25 (pop 5.2 million) I cannot help but think Britain would have done so much better if it was an island... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-01-27 12:45 AM We really shouldn't be so dependent on the vaccine Britain: official death toll is 100,000. For the sake of comparison, look at the following: Taiwan: 7 (pop 24 million) Japan: 5,200 (pop 128 million) S Korea: 1, 400 (pop 51 million) Australia: 909 (pop 26 million) NZ: 25 (pop 5.2 million) I cannot help but think Britain would have done so much better if it was an island... I think obesity, lack of vitamin D,diet have more to do with it than being an island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 CurtainRaiser - 2021-01-27 12:45 AM We really shouldn't be so dependent on the vaccine Britain: official death toll is 100,000. For the sake of comparison, look at the following: Taiwan: 7 (pop 24 million) Japan: 5,200 (pop 128 million) S Korea: 1, 400 (pop 51 million) Australia: 909 (pop 26 million) NZ: 25 (pop 5.2 million) I cannot help but think Britain would have done so much better if it was an island... How is the Island of Ireland doing Paddy? :-| .......... Deaths 3066 (pop 4.9 million) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CurtainRaiser Posted January 27, 2021 Share Posted January 27, 2021 pelmetman - 2021-01-27 9:31 AM CurtainRaiser - 2021-01-27 12:45 AM We really shouldn't be so dependent on the vaccine Britain: official death toll is 100,000. For the sake of comparison, look at the following: Taiwan: 7 (pop 24 million) Japan: 5,200 (pop 128 million) S Korea: 1, 400 (pop 51 million) Australia: 909 (pop 26 million) NZ: 25 (pop 5.2 million) I cannot help but think Britain would have done so much better if it was an island... How is the Island of Ireland doing Paddy? :-| .......... Deaths 3066 (pop 4.9 million) Deaths per million England 1496 deaths per million Ireland 620 https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/ Your point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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