hideyspidey Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Our van has been poorly for a while. The injector light has been on for years. ( we had it checked twice and they said its nothing) my guess is they couldn't read it. So now we get a flat spot around 2500 to 3000 revs and the turbo doesn't really kick in. Back to the garage and they think it's the injectors. They say it's returning more fuel than its using and to send them off for testing. They said it was better when they wiggled it. However, lots of info saying its common that it's the plug that attaches to the injectors. The problem we have is finding out what the actual problem is. Last auto electrician ripped us off. Had 3 separate garages look at the van too. Any advice, starting to get us down I should add that it drives fine below and above the flat spot Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 My suggestion would be to get your own code reader and find whether any codes are stored in the Engine Control Module (ECM). For example I have an Autel MD802 which can read my Sprinters ECM and also lists the X244 2.8 JTD in the applicability list. The MD802 has now been superseded by either the MD806 Pro or MD808 Pro and cost would be somewhere around £200 depending on model. https://www.autelsale.co.uk/search/?q=MD806+Pro&DirID=-tool.html https://www.autelsale.co.uk/search/?q=MD808+Pro&DirID= (check for prices and availability). Also other forum members with Ducato's swear by MultiECUscan http://www.multiecuscan.net/ but I have no experience with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Hi, First please what model of Ducato? x230, or x244. To confirm check first three numbers of VIN, either on vehicle or on V5C. eg, ZFA230..... The x230 only has a 3pin (2 wire) diagnostic port near the air filter, while the x244 has a standard OBD2 port near the steering column. It would also help to know whether the engine is fitted with an EGR system, as it seems that while it was presumably an option, many 2.8jtds are not fitted with this feature. The x230 requires an adapter lead for its OBD port, which many garages may not have. Keith has mentioned Multiecuscan, which is popular in the Fiat community. This is computer software, and requires a Windows computer. I think that a free basic version is available. The company "Gendan" is highly regarded for supply and advice, and should be able to supply the adapter cable for the x230, if required. Tight injector cables are a known problem with the earlier 2.8jtd installations, but I would expect these to cause general rough running. The turbo on the 2.8jtd is simply controlled to a maximum boost pressure via the wastegate. It is not unknown for the wastegate linkage to fracture. There are other possibilities, but may I echo Keith's suggestion, that a reading of the stored fault codes is essential. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeF Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Parts data suggests there are two types of turbo fitted, engine type 8140.43N is variable vane and 8140.43S is waste gate. The description of the issues points to turbo malfunctioning, the vacuum control unit, the actuator or the linkages. If its variable vane, the vanes may be sticking. Having fault codes is useful but it's easy to visually inspect the operation of the turbo actuator and linkages. If the injectors are suspect, the garage seems to have carried out a 'leak off' test that suggests there are injector issues, then this needs to be confirmed. Messing with the plug that improves the situation puts suspicion on the plug and loom, so this needs investigation. The control signals to the injectors need to be confirmed correct (this will need specialist test equipment), before further testing on the injectors . Rather than a general repair garage, a diesel injection system repair specialist should be approached for advice where fuel system issues are suspected. It's unfortunate that many auto technicians are merely fitters, changing parts in the hope of a 'cure', rather than fully investigating the problem. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, MikeF said: Parts data suggests there are two types of turbo fitted, engine type 8140.43N is variable vane and 8140.43S is waste gate. The description of the issues points to turbo malfunctioning, the vacuum control unit, the actuator or the linkages. If its variable vane, the vanes may be sticking. Having fault codes is useful but it's easy to visually inspect the operation of the turbo actuator and linkages. If the injectors are suspect, the garage seems to have carried out a 'leak off' test that suggests there are injector issues, then this needs to be confirmed. Messing with the plug that improves the situation puts suspicion on the plug and loom, so this needs investigation. The control signals to the injectors need to be confirmed correct (this will need specialist test equipment), before further testing on the injectors . Rather than a general repair garage, a diesel injection system repair specialist should be approached for advice where fuel system issues are suspected. It's unfortunate that many auto technicians are merely fitters, changing parts in the hope of a 'cure', rather than fully investigating the problem. Mike AFAIK, the higher powered 8143n engine was only fitted to the Ducato Maxi, so which engine/turbo should be easy to resolve. I have recntly seen the phrase "fire the parts cannon" used to describe this process. The owner picks up the tab. Alan Edited June 17, 2023 by Alanb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidders Posted June 17, 2023 Share Posted June 17, 2023 Could be completely unrelated @hideyspidey but we recently bought an Iveco Motorhome that had a very similar issue. There was an injector light flashing on the dash at around 2.5k revs in higher gears. Previous owners mechanic apparently said ‘they all do that’ and ‘it’s unburnt fuel that causes it’ (or some similar tosh). It was really annoying, particularly as we always venture into the highlands of Scotland and you need power on some of those hills. My usual go-to garage suspected fuel contamination and changed fuel filter as well as putting cleaner through the tank - this didn’t fix it. I eventually booked it into a diesel specislist (Argyle Diesel in my case) who had the proper diagnostic tools for my particular model (ivecos can be a pain for this and most general mechanics don’t have the proper kit). It was the rod that controls the waste gate on mines that was sticky due to lack of use. The part was lubricated and I was given some away and shown what to do - relatively easy. It did get better the more I used it but frustratingly didn’t disappear altogether. I was ready to replace the turbo at over £1k until I heard of a place that can fix them by applying a heat gun of sorts to loosen off. I went with that and it’s fixed it. As Mike mentions get it into a diesel specialist that works on these all day and understands them and go from there - I’m glad I did. I can’t believe the previous owners of mines just drove it around like that for quite some time and thought it was ok/took their mechanics word for it…..it drove me mad🙀 Good luck🤞🏼 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 I have mentioned a similar problem in various posts over the years and can concur with "Sidders" that in my case it was the turbo waste gate. I am lucky as I have a small local garage where the chaps knowledge of vehicles is superb - an old boy in his 70's who is a total vehicle whisperer. He sussed the problem, enlarged the hole that this rod goes through cleaned the whole thing and we have had no further problems since. He also advised that you need to give the engine some "welly" every so often to clear the crap out. On my 2.8JTD he advises up to 3000 rpm for a few minutes .... easy to do by dropping down a gear while cruising. (Think what "white van man" does all the time!) Jeremy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Hi, Everyone is giving you excellent advise , but please have the codes read or as Keithl suggests purchase a code reader yourself Obtain the faulty codes and lets start from there ,with those codes Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 20 hours ago, Alanb said: AFAIK, the higher powered 8143n engine was only fitted to the Ducato Maxi, so which engine/turbo should be easy to resolve. I have recntly seen the phrase "fire the parts cannon" used to describe this process. The owner picks up the tab. Alan May I correct my statement above. On checking my handbook, I find the the 2.8jtd Power engine version, 8143n, was available as an option on versions other than the Maxi. The 8143n is however much less common then the 8143s (127hp). The turbo vanes on the 8143n are vacuum controlled via a modulating valve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Hi As the OP hideyspidey has not confirmed what model or fault codes we are just going around in circles,but may be hitting the nail on the head. Just as Alanb quotes the phrase "fire the parts cannon" re the technicians/mechanic I am afraid we may be doing something similar without all the data first Regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 18, 2023 Share Posted June 18, 2023 Agreed. I think it might also be helpful to know the status* of the garages hideyspidey has been using, as what she has said so far regarding their attempts to identify the fault doesn't inspire confidence in their abilities. * Fiat "Professional" (i.e. commercial vehicles) workshop, independent workshop, diesel specialist etc. Possibly time to consider changing before spending any more on questionable advice. Perhaps, if hideyspidey says which part of the UK she lives in, someone will know of a really reliable workshop in that area with the appropriate skills-set. My understanding is that removing the injectors on these older engines is less than straightforward, as corrosion of either the injectors themselves or the retaining bolts can make the exercise risky and costly - so the job really needs to go to a competent specialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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