Ad Blue

[Pete-B]

Hi, Need to get some Ad Blue for my van, looking on E Bay there seems to be a lot selling Mannol which is a German brand. It's a lot cheaper than at our local garages so just wondered if anyone has bought this and is it OK.

 

[Den]

Son in law and I used Adblu purchased on eBay. 
big big mistake. All the minibuses and my Torneo had problems. 
tanks were emptied and now we only use Adblu from a pump and keep a couple of 20 ltr containers for back up. 
for the cost savings it’s not worth it and you have no way of telling if it’s the genuine item. 

[Pete-B]

thanks for that Den

[crocs]

I would tend to use a brand or a supplier that I trusted and source the cheapest version of that. I bought a 10 litre canister from Leclerc in France last week.

[spirou]

I got some 10l canisters on sale from Lidl once. It was even cheaper than at the pump. But canisters are far too much of a bother when it comes to pouring in and usually more expensive anyway.

[Pete-B]

I see someoneI on eBay is selling Redex ad blue in 10L bottles I would assume that would be OK would it?

[Keithl]

6 minutes ago, Pete-B said:

I see someoneI on eBay is selling Redex ad blue in 10L bottles I would assume that would be OK would it?

IMO still of unknown origin and more importantly age so I would pass.

As I said in the Diesel thread, you are trying to save a few coppers and possibly putting a very expensive engine at risk!

[hja]

try home bargains, often have it cheaper than other places.

[mtravel]

Re-geez. In average my 2020 2.3 Ducato needs Adb refilling every 6,000 kms. Let's say, 8 to 10 liters or (average) 12£.

Fuel comsumption will be around 6,000/10*1.4 = 840£.

How much will you save ?

[GandJP]

I bought some (15lrs) in a Leclerc supermarket a couple of weeks ago and have had no problems and boy was it cheaper than here. I was going to buy some to bring back with me and stupidly forgot to but am intending to go to France again before too long and should be ok til then as I am not looking to go far for a while. Oh I found a 5 ltrs at about 10 euros so bought a 10 litre another time but cant recall the price but pretty sure it was a bit less.

[John52]

I have used Redex adblu and adblu that was 2 years out of date with no problem

It isn't going to stop or damage your engine - it doesn't go in your engine - its sprayed in after the gas has left your engine.

But it does deteriorate with age, leading to slightly higher emissions, so they can't say its OK

As an idea of how much old adblu increases your emissions, the active component (urea) loses about half its effectiveness after 30 years.

[John52]

Another factor is a lot of fossil fuel is burned to produce Adblu.  Which is why adblu prices shot up when gas prices did.

So if your 10 year old adblu is increasing your emissions by 4% or whatever, it probably isn't environmentally friendly to chuck it and buy fresh?

So don't stockpile it and let it go old - but if you do you can still use it 

[MikeF]

'Old' adblue won't damage the engine but may cause issues with the metering and injection components of the adblue  system, or damage the DPF matrix.

The safest  and  most convenient  solution is to refill from a garage  adblue pump. 

Mike

[onecal]

Old Adblue (over a year old "expired"in unopened container) should never be used as it will cause premature failure of the SCR system  This also applies to vehicles that have been left standing over a long period of time with Adblue in their respective tank. It needs to be flushed through with fresh Adblue before use. This may effect a lot of Motorhomes left parked up over the winter that use Adblue  

[GandJP]

15 hours ago, John52 said:

Another factor is a lot of fossil fuel is burned to produce Adblu.  Which is why adblu prices shot up when gas prices did.

So if your 10 year old adblu is increasing your emissions by 4% or whatever, it probably isn't environmentally friendly to chuck it and buy fresh?

So don't stockpile it and let it go old - but if you do you can still use it 

The RAC say this "AdBlue is a non-toxic, non-flammable, odourless and biodegradable solution" so not sure how that fits in with it being produced by burning lots of fossil fuels John. 

[John52]

18 hours ago, onecal said:

Old Adblue (over a year old "expired"in unopened container) should never be used as it will cause premature failure of the SCR system  This also applies to vehicles that have been left standing over a long period of time with Adblue in their respective tank. It needs to be flushed through with fresh Adblue before use. This may effect a lot of Motorhomes left parked up over the winter that use Adblue  

Well its too late to flush it through now because I have already used it.

But I see no drain hole for changing it like there is with the engine oil.

So how do you flush it through?

[John52]

9 hours ago, GandJP said:

The RAC say this "AdBlue is a non-toxic, non-flammable, odourless and biodegradable solution" so not sure how that fits in with it being produced by burning lots of fossil fuels John. 

When gas prices shot up I read somewhere that the adblue factories had stopped production, hoping for gas prices to come down.  Which caused a shortage.  But adblue prices have risen greatly due to the rising gas price.

I think its like Nimbys extol the virtue of electric cars, whilst ignoring the environmental damage of producing the batteries.  I suppose because the pollution is caused somewhere else?

[John52]

21 hours ago, onecal said:

 This may effect a lot of Motorhomes left parked up over the winter that use Adblue  

If you could convince enough people of that it could be a nice little earner for garages.

I don't know how they could change the adblu with no drain plug .. but no one would know whether they had changed it or not 😉

[onecal]

Pipe disconnection and flush out with new Adblue to prevent damage to the SCR system Not a difficult job for a competent a DIY enthusiast's.One of course would have your own peace of mind it was flushed out and hopefully damage to the SCR system prevented 

Regards

[gassygassy]

On 03/07/2023 at 07:21, John52 said:

 

Presumably you can get a sucky thing, stick the pipe down the AdBlu filler and suck it out?

I've just bought my first AdBlu van and have heard all sorts of varying comments about it. Some say the engine uses a lot and increases your effective fuel consumption by 10%, others say it lasts for ages and makes no difference. The dealer I got my camper from said the amount it uses reduces as you increase road speed so you may as well do 70mph because the increased diesel consumption will be offset by the reduced AdBlu consumption.

Some say you should only ever add a maximum of 5 litres, some say add a minimum of 5 litres, some say you shouldn't fill it, some say you should fill it up. Some say you MUST wait five minutes after adding any at all before starting the engine. Others say jut put some in and drive away. I reckon the safest thing to do is like you did in The Olden Days: when the ash tray is full it was time to buy a new car. So nowadays, when the AdBlu starts to run out, it's time to buy a new camper.

Also when buying it at the dealer I asked how you tell if you need to top up. Is there an adblu meter like a fuel gauge? No, he said, wait till you get the warning light on the dashboard. Now I own it, I flicked through all the options on a button somewhere and there is indeed a gauge, that it is 3/4 full, and how many miles to run (3,400) so that's very helpful. I guess you should run it down to minimum before laying it up for winter, then fill it as soon as you start using it. Just in case you don't use it for 30 years.

I've yet to see an AdBlu pump in a regular petrol station, they prefer to sell 10l containers at £2 a litre. And I have seen piles of discarded 10l containers in laybys so I guess that is the forthcoming pollution issue: the seas will be awash with floating environmentally and marine hazardous AdBlu containers

[gassygassy]

On 03/07/2023 at 23:00, GandJP said:

The RAC say this "AdBlue is a non-toxic, non-flammable, odourless and biodegradable solution" so not sure how that fits in with it being produced by burning lots of fossil fuels John. 

I thought it was toxic and you should avoid getting it on your hands? Apparently not. There's so much conflicting information around.

I  looked at a label and it said product should be kept between 0 degC and 30 degC. So that's not much use when you are trying to keep the engine running in winter or the South of France in summer is it? What happens when it gets below 0, does it freeze, crystalise or what, and does it stop the engine running, or do the tanks have heaters? Does it boil at 31 degrees?

Confused, of Middle Earth.

[mtravel]

Come on guys. My Ducato 2.3 140CV (2020) after 43,000km I may say that it needs approx 2lts/1,000kms.

At a ridicolous cost when compared to diesel one.

No matter how much I refill, always done at a pump of a station in Italy, Spain, France and even Norway.

Apparently no temp problem, used from -5°C to 39 (last week).

[GandJP]

11 hours ago, gassygassy said:

I thought it was toxic and you should avoid getting it on your hands? Apparently not. There's so much conflicting information around.

I  looked at a label and it said product should be kept between 0 degC and 30 degC. So that's not much use when you are trying to keep the engine running in winter or the South of France in summer is it? What happens when it gets below 0, does it freeze, crystalise or what, and does it stop the engine running, or do the tanks have heaters? Does it boil at 31 degrees?

Confused, of Middle Earth.

I didnt have any freezing problems when I was in France in February so wouldnt think it does. It got down to about minus 10 one night.

[onecal]

No sucky thing needed , one can drain old out of date or contaminated Adblue by disconnection outlet line. Some tanks have a drop down drain pipes. Some tanks have heaters depending on the model your Motorhome is built on so freezing  should not be an issue if fitted

So look up your owners manual, as you would for any fluids in your respective vehicle  

Regarding the advice of replacing old Adblue (over a year old "expired"in unopened container) should never be used as it may cause premature failure of the SCR system  This also applies to vehicles that have been left standing over a long period of time(over a year old) with Adblue in their respective tank be it over winter or summer. It needs to be flushed through with fresh Adblue before use. It's a cheaper option than may having to replace some expensive SCR components that can become damaged by contaminated or out of date Adblue 

Regards 

[John52]

8 hours ago, onecal said:

No sucky thing needed , one can drain old out of date or contaminated Adblue by disconnection outlet line. Some tanks have a drop down drain pipes. Some tanks have heaters depending on the model your Motorhome is built on so freezing  should not be an issue if fitted

So look up your owners manual, as you would for any fluids in your respective vehicle  

Regarding the advice of replacing old Adblue (over a year old "expired"in unopened container) should never be used as it may cause premature failure of the SCR system  This also applies to vehicles that have been left standing over a long period of time(over a year old) with Adblue in their respective tank be it over winter or summer. It needs to be flushed through with fresh Adblue before use. It's a cheaper option than may having to replace some expensive SCR components that can become damaged by contaminated or out of date Adblue 

Regards 

You keep repeating that but produce nothing to explain it

How can adblu over a year old, only very slightly weakened, 'cause premature failure of the SCR system' ?

An explanation would be helpful

Otherwise its just adds to the confusing and contradictory unsubstantiated advice that gassygassy has noticed.

How do you know what to believe if there is nothing to back it up?

Its impossible to prove a negative ( old adblu does not harm your vehicle)

But it might be possible to prove a positive - like if old adblu does do harm?