brayncc Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 Hi we are almost at the point of entering the motorhome fraternity again after a 3 year gap. I’m wondering what effect ULEZ should have on the purchase decision. I know several cities in the Uk and France have adopted such a policy and, although it was never an issue in the past, I wonder if compliance should now be considered a ‘must have’. Any constructive views? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 Your last motorhome was a 2013 East Neuk Fifer and, if someone were contemplating purchasing a diesel-fuelled motorhome of that age and specification nowadays, it would certainly be wise for the buyer to consider very carefully the potential impact of 'clean air zones' both within the UK and abroad (and also how long they planned to keep the motorhome). Since 2000 my motorcaranning was primarily in France and my motorhomes never entered a UK clean-air zone. I obtained an inexpensive French Crit'Air clean-air sticker for my motorhomes (and for my cars) but this was purely 'just-in-case' as I thought it unlikely that I've ever need to enter a French clean-air zone where displaying the sticker was mandatory, and this has proven to be the case. I'm confident that - if I bought another motorhome - I would never drive it in London, and I can't see me driving in any of the other UK cities that currently have (or are likely to have) clean-air zones. And, if I continued to use the motorhome in France as in the past, I'm pretty sure I could have little difficulty avoiding their present and future clean-air zones too. So - for me (as a hypothetical buyer of a newish-motorhome) - ULEZ compliance (or any other clean-air zone compliance) probably wouldn't matter where usage of the vehicle was concerned. However, I'd definitely bear clean-air-zones in mind if I were considering buying an older motorhome as, although its emissions status might not matter to me usage-wise, it could become much more important when I came to sell the vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 You may find this RAC site useful in deciding, including the link the the European Low Emissions Zones website for a overview of European zones: https://tinyurl.com/w6gpv6a Bear in mind also the the number of such zones is growing, and the each country designates it own zones, and the acceptance standard for access to them. Given that, I think, if I were intending to buy a van at present, I would go for the highest emissions standard my budget would bear, especially if intending to tour widely in Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Derek says he hs no intention of driving in a ULEZ zone, the current ones are: There are Low Emission Zones in: London Brighton Birmingham Bristol Bath Bradford Portsmouth Newcastle Norwich Nottingham Oxford Aberdeen Dundee Edinburgh Glasgow Several other major cities such as Manchester and Sheffield are in discussions about introducing them in the near future. That's a fair chunk of the UK closed off to you and likely to get worse. My pov is if you can afford a ULEZ compliant m/h, that would be my first option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Just put your reg in the gov site to check, https://www.gov.uk/clean-air-zones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 Can't answer you. It depends how you want to use your van? If you want to visit cities, get a compliant one. If, like us, you want to see the great outdoors, then it doesn't matter? If we want to visit a town/city we find a site in the countryside with public transport in, or we use our small motorbike to go in. Europe is much easier to do this than UK. Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 We don't use our MH to visit cities so not really a problem to us with our none compliant PHGV. And my view is if they don't want us, then we don't want to visit them! Keith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the wanderer Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 + Manchester & Sheffield do have clean air zones now, maybe called something else but it is a charge for going into them. We don't mind a city visit ourselves but we tend to stay outside and either cycle/walk/public transport our way in and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Whilst I understand people not wishing to enter cities with their motorhomes, I personally feel that for the sake of a very small outlay (€5 France, €5 to €10 Germany) for the life of the vehicle it is really no reason not to buy one. One point that seems to be being missed is that it is not only towns and cities affected, there's also Zones that are variable according to pollution at the time. As you can see from (I hope!) attached picture this can severely restrict the the areas in which you can travel, leaving only a couple of unaffected routes north to south. Bas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Bas ... Two things :- Firstly, :- Simply buying a Crit Air sticker does not allow you to enter a Crit Air Zone. It depends on what level of CritAir your vehicle is. Mine is "5" so I can't go in to most of the fixed zones anyway. Secondly:- I believe that the green areas on your map are only areas that "CAN" be designated as Crit air zones "IF" pollution reaches a high level. Normally you can travel through these zones with no problems. I have never yet heard of one of these zones being activated? So I really don't think at present it should dictate a vehicle choice. (It seems to be another of those French Regulations with no teeth, eg Breathalisers, Crit Air, Snow chains, Importing meat and Dairy etc. The French seem to love enacting these things then neither invoking nor enforcing them!) Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Originally there were (possibly still are) three main types of French 'clean-air' zone - ZFE (Zone à Faibles Emissions) which were permanent and applying to a big city, ZPA (Zones de Protection de l'Air) which were temporary and applying to a large designated area, or ZPAd (Zone de Protection de L'Air Départementale, similar to ZPA but applying to a complete French department. There was also ZCR (Zone à Circulation Restreinte) that has now been renamed ZFE-m (Zone à Faibles Emissions-mobilité ). (Like Jeremy, I'm not aware of any ZPA or ZPAd having been activated.) A 2022 French law demanded that any urban area with more than 150,000 residents must introduce s ZFE-m by 2025. (The map below shows the additional ZFEs (orange circles), but the complexity of the ZFE system as a whole and delays in automation projects now strongly suggests that the 2025 target date won't be met. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 8 hours ago, Nick the wanderer said: + Manchester & Sheffield do have clean air zones now, maybe called something else but it is a charge for going into them. I don't know about Sheffield, but Manchester does not have a charge zone. They are in fact seeking to implement an "Investment-led" system, which will not require any payments per vehicle. See: Clean Air Zone information | Clean Air Zone information | Manchester City Council Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 20/01/2024 at 11:08, Keithl said: And my view is if they don't want us, then we don't want to visit them! Keith. Who is 'they'? Interesting discussion on Radio Devon at Easter where a landlord was bemoaning the fact that all his 5 holiday lets were empty whilst the place was full of campers. But them a local guy came on and said 'let them camp - turn your holiday lets into much needed homes for local people!' I often sit in my armchair with my side door open looking at the beach. Most people just walk past, but a few stop and chat. About 98% are positive - young people always positive 'Cool.. What a Great Idea' etc The few that are negative are always old people 'not a campsite' etc Or in the case of one old duffer in Gorran Haven (looked like a retired Army Major) who just looked at me, said 'Good God' and walked off 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 5 minutes ago, John52 said: Who is 'they'? Sorry, thought that was rather obvious, the towns and cities who are introducing CAZ's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 On 20/01/2024 at 10:43, ColinM50 said: Derek says he hs no intention of driving in a ULEZ zone, the current ones are: There are Low Emission Zones in: London Brighton Birmingham Bristol Bath Bradford Portsmouth Newcastle Norwich Nottingham Oxford Aberdeen Dundee Edinburgh Glasgow Several other major cities such as Manchester and Sheffield are in discussions about introducing them in the near future. That's a fair chunk of the UK closed off to you and likely to get worse. My pov is if you can afford a ULEZ compliant m/h, that would be my first option I know them all having driven in and parked up (often overnight) in my plain white van. So it needs to be compliant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 minute ago, Keithl said: Sorry, thought that was rather obvious, the towns and cities who are introducing CAZ's! The cities who are introducing CAZ's! are not saying they don't want you They are saying they don't want polluting vehicles - and with traffic fumes killing them who can blame them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 Just now, John52 said: The cities who are introducing CAZ's! are not saying they don't want you Pedantic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 1 minute ago, Keithl said: Pedantic! No because it doesn't mean cities who are introducing CAZ's! don't want you to visit them Just that they don't want polluting vehicles near them - and who does? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 21 Share Posted January 21 You have changed your argument so I'm not going to try and answer any more! I'm out of here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick the wanderer Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 15 hours ago, spospe said: I don't know about Sheffield, but Manchester does not have a charge zone. They are in fact seeking to implement an "Investment-led" system, which will not require any payments per vehicle. See: Clean Air Zone information | Clean Air Zone information | Manchester City Council Hi, yeah fair play it looks like Manchester has not implemented theirs just yet, I thought they had. Sheffield has because ive paid it! Unless there is some bogus website collecting money from poor unsuspecting people going about their business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 (edited) In answer to laimeduck's point, yes I totally agree that some vehicles would not be allowed through the variable zones, I did as much say that in my comment, the areas are not as you state 'can be designated' they ARE designated with a variable limit that applies to those vehicles at the time. Surely the fact that you can't enter the relevant zones that is the essence of the OP's question? Clearly those that are unaware of them being used have not driven past Lille or Lyon at the times they have been activated, I have so know that they are being used. Anyway I personally don't care one way or the other whether someone does or does not want to spend a tiny fraction of money, it's as always personal choice but I do believe the OP should have the benefit of any available information and then make their own decision! I also remember now why I stopped participating in this forum. Bas Edited January 22 by Basil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 28 minutes ago, Basil said: In answer to laimeduck's point, yes I totally agree that some vehicles would not be allowed through the variable zones, I did as much say that in my comment, the areas are not as you state 'can be designated' they ARE designated with a variable limit that applies to those vehicles at the time. Surely the fact that you can't enter the relevant zones that is the essence of the OP's question? Clearly those that are unaware of them being used have not driven past Lille or Lyon at the times they have been activated, I have so know that they are being used. Anyway I personally don't care one way or the other whether someone does or does not want to spend a tiny fraction of money, it's as always personal choice but I do believe the OP should have the benefit of any available information and then make their own decision! I also remember now why I stopped participating in this forum. Bas Bas I think you may have misunderstood me? I willingly paid for and do have the Crit Air sticker for my vehicle - but having it does not mean I can enter the affected ZFE city zones ..., I can't! I am permanently excluded! I also got one for my Motorbike which we take in the garage of our van. Interesting that you have experienced the ZPA zones in action. How did you know the zones were active? Are there signs up saying "No" (eg) "Crit Air 5 vehicles in this area"? I can find no definitive source of how I, as a traveller through France, would know if a zone was active or not? Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Laimeduck, I appreciate your situation but was passing on information to the OP in, I hope, offering information regarding his question, from my knowledge and perspective, not to get into a discussion of the rights and wrongs or the ifs and buts of an individual's situation. I also appreciate your personal situation as, certainly with the UK, they keep moving the goalposts, unlike the continent, where at least your designation is for the life of the vehicle. We changed ours from our very much loved but noncompliant Eldiss in 2015 to meet the current, and we thought immediate future, regulations only to find a year later we were no longer compliant!!! However my experience both approaching Lille and on another occasion Lyon it started with large matrix boards saying, obviously in French and translated by my co-pilot, High Pollution reduce speed to 50kph. The next said Vehicles Crit Air 3 all others leave at next junction. I am not aware of what happens when you leave at the junction as we were compliant. I did observe gantries with cameras covering all lanes after the junction but I am not aware what these were for. With the Lyon one we did take the diversion as there was an extreme amount of traffic on the road we intended to use and it basically put us onto another Autoroute that circled further out from Lyon with Matrix boards notifying where you should go. The only thing I would say is if you are alone and only have the grasp of French that I do, it could be difficult! Bas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, Basil said: However my experience both approaching Lille and on another occasion Lyon it started with large matrix boards saying, obviously in French and translated by my co-pilot, High Pollution reduce speed to 50kph. The next said Vehicles Crit Air 3 all others leave at next junction. I am not aware of what happens when you leave at the junction as we were compliant. I did observe gantries with cameras covering all lanes after the junction but I am not aware what these were for. With the Lyon one we did take the diversion as there was an extreme amount of traffic on the road we intended to use and it basically put us onto another Autoroute that circled further out from Lyon with Matrix boards notifying where you should go. The only thing I would say is if you are alone and only have the grasp of French that I do, it could be difficult! Bas - thanks for that info. It does raise another query for me though? We try to avoid all motorways, so the roads we use tend not to have overhead gantries. How Would I know a zone was active then? Jeremy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Lille and Lyon have a ZFE AND a ZPA. Guidance on these links. https://www.lez-france.fr/en/low-emission-zones/lille https://www.lez-france.fr/en/low-emission-zones/lyon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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