onecal Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Hi, No exaggeration from the six on site that are having problems, they own the units and to see one with very low mileage fail this morning in front of us tells it's own story. For people to say they don't know how to drive them we let the very same people this evening reverse two units of different unit makes. Both went back at little more than tick over. After this test and much discussion there is more than six unhappy campers on site. Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 onecal vw - 2011-06-06 9:37 PM Hi, No exaggeration from the six on site that are having problems, they own the units and to see one with very low mileage fail this morning in front of us tells it's own story. For people to say they don't know how to drive them we let the very same people this evening reverse two units of different unit makes. Both went back at little more than tick over. After this test and much discussion there is more than six unhappy campers on site. Regards, Brendan I have only had my X250 van a very short time and we are over the moon with it, best van we have ever had......But you have to admit there is no smoke without fire, and with all this evidence of clutch failure etc....The situation has to be slightly worrying *-) Thanks Robert and Jean! A lot of respect going out to you from the South London possy! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Hi Judge, Yes very true,some are lucky. One's that are not too big and heavy ,don't judder badly. I could not believe my eyes and ears today down here in Oradour sur Glane. I also thought that when the other owners got around to chat I thought it may been a sense of hysteria because of what happened. We later found this to be untrue as they told us how much of a loss they would take if they traded up for a different unit model. When they got to drive two different models that performed reversing back at little more than tick over, that was that. With so many Motorhomes built on this units it's really not good enough. Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAS Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Surely all this technical talk is irrelevant. No company which treats their customers as Fiat have will get any of my money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolandrat Posted June 7, 2011 Author Share Posted June 7, 2011 According to my information which was gleaned from a technician employed by my local Fiat dealer who strips and rebuilds x250 gearboxes the difference between the suspect ones and the latest ones is "ONE" tooth, ie from seventeen teeth to sixteen teeth. This does not represent a 10% improvement as stated on this forum by one or two. In the real world it would be great if all the information that is posted on here is true and accurate and not a misleading assumption as sometimes happens. This juddergate situation will rumble on for as long as there are owners out there who are experiencing very real transmission problems and should be accorded the respect that they deserve. Thanks for the latest info Onecal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 DAS - 2011-06-07 8:02 AM Surely all this technical talk is irrelevant. No company which treats their customers as Fiat have will get any of my money! So which company will get your money? The've all done it at one time or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 DAS - 2011-06-07 8:02 AM Surely all this technical talk is irrelevant. No company which treats their customers as Fiat have will get any of my money! OK...... if your after a coachbuilt there is some choice in chassis...But if you want a Panel van conversion the Fiat is the widest and hence far more practical a choice. And they are a lovely vehicle to drive...wherther it eventually goes wrong or not who knows! *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JudgeMental Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 1footinthegrave - 2011-05-28 11:02 AM Is that really supposed to be funny,condescending rubbish is the way I'd describe your comment, but that seems to sum up most of the drivel you post on here, always it seems looking to be offensive. Perhaps it's all that rain you get. If you have nothing useful to say why don't you just keep it shut, or write it in Cymru >:-( I think you need a holiday or a good rest.........All these shenanigans are obviously getting to you, and not in a good way. You repeatedly loose it and show yourself up. Quite honestly its getting wearisome to observe your mental deterioration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 robertandjean - 2011-06-06 8:24 PM In general agree with Henry (Rupert 123) on this. Yes some Fiats clearly have a judder but a lot , including ours do not, and feel that the scale of the problem has been exgagerated at times, often by people who do not even own said vans. Clearly those who have experienced problems deserve support. Postnote, sorry but do not think old 1foot got the better of the Judge, so Rupert need not worry. In the past the Judge (Eddie) and ourselves have exchanged opinions but really he is a good guy willing to help others. Now can the forum focus on helpful exchanges of info please? Robert and Jean I stopped responding to the moron triplets some time ago, the one foot bloke keeps saying he is going to stop responding on subjects but unfortunatly never does. Postnote, another who keeps his name well hidden terrified me with his post and like you I believe he will find out Eddie is not easily got the better of. As to Brendans post their is a drop of exaggeration here and will no doubt trigger of all the old arguments again. Those of us with X250's know the truth so let others rave on. His constant assertion that they get a bad part ex is pure rubbish if my own example is anything to go by. As I have also pointed out many times, but he has trouble reading others posts, their is no evidence of this at all either on forecourts, at auctions or in the motor trade guide books. It was interesting that the new euro 5 X250,s all got rave reviews in July MMM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Hi, Chatting some more French down here in Oradour sur Glane and as judge points out the panel vans are lovely and seem to give no gearbox or clutch problems and of course they are happy campers as it should be. Our French man who had the trouble with his low mileage one has been helped out by fellow campers on site, Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Exaggeration I am afraid not. Tell that to the people who have had the misfortune to have purchased one of the rattlers. Is highlighting this unacceptable fault not in the long term helping out people? People who have been driving for years been told the don't know how to drive. This was put to the test the other day when some people were let drive units that backed up just above tick over. It reminds me of a motorhomer who was towing with an A Frame when he said he was getting it hard to pull away, he was told he was just not used to it, give it welly, a little later it went up in smoke. Regards. Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 onecal vw - 2011-06-08 11:42 PM Exaggeration I am afraid not. Tell that to the people who have had the misfortune to have purchased one of the rattlers. Is highlighting this unacceptable fault not in the long term helping out people? People who have been driving for years been told the don't know how to drive. This was put to the test the other day when some people were let drive units that backed up just above tick over. It reminds me of a motorhomer who was towing with an A Frame when he said he was getting it hard to pull away, he was told he was just not used to it, give it welly, a little later it went up in smoke. Regards. Brendan What units backed up just over tickover, I assume you mean with clutch fully engaged. Certainly no modern Ford or Fiat will, never driven one but doubt the new Renault will either. Come on Brendan let us have a few facts here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesFrance Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I feel terrible that I raised this subject in Hints and Tips, as I had ordered my van after not being involved with motorhomes for several years, so never having heard about juddering I asked whether it was still a problem having found some old references on the subject. Could we please allow this topic to die quietly now before a few people burst a blood vessel. There are no recent posts which are not simply going round in circles, so in most forums this topic would have been locked by a moderator ages ago. Constant repetition is pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 The two units were, one FWD 2001 with 140,000Mls with the original clutch and gearbox ,the other one a RWD TW 2009.Both coachbuilds,not panel vans. Both reversed up the incline with a little more than tick over (fact) with over 30 people looking on as each one tried out both. A lot of head shaking and scratching and general disgust. Yes you are correct both were not Fiats. Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawki Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-06-09 2:29 PM onecal vw - 2011-06-08 11:42 PM Exaggeration I am afraid not. Tell that to the people who have had the misfortune to have purchased one of the rattlers. Is highlighting this unacceptable fault not in the long term helping out people? People who have been driving for years been told the don't know how to drive. This was put to the test the other day when some people were let drive units that backed up just above tick over. It reminds me of a motorhomer who was towing with an A Frame when he said he was getting it hard to pull away, he was told he was just not used to it, give it welly, a little later it went up in smoke. Regards. Brendan What units backed up just over tickover, I assume you mean with clutch fully engaged. Certainly no modern Ford or Fiat will, never driven one but doubt the new Renault will either. Come on Brendan let us have a few facts here. I have no wish to criticize any make of van, we all make our choices. But I have a new shape Merc with a 7.4m van and it would reverse as has described with no problem at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 rupert123 - 2011-06-09 2:29 PM ......................Certainly no modern Ford ................will, never driven one but doubt the new Renault will either. Come on Brendan let us have a few facts here. Oi! Fair do's Henry! Mine will! Mk 7 Transit 350 FWD 130PS, 3,500Kg MAM. Not unreasonably uphill, and sometimes tricky over uneven ground, but on tarmac or level grass it's a pussycat. No throttle, engage clutch gently, the revs automatically increase as required, and off you go. I do it nearly all the time when pitching. Rolls a bit quicker than walking speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aultymer Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Our 91 Hymer on a non turbo Merc would reverse quite happily on tickover on the flat but needed just a bit when reversing uphill (depending on the slope of course). The 07 Rapido with 6 cyl Merc turbo engine will reverse almost anywhere 'feet off'! I do understand the need for Fiat owners to 'talk up' the brand to protect resale values but I hope they will understand that some of us would do without a van before we would trust our lives to a Fiat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Having driven a mk7 Ford coachbuilt and my present x250 PVC I can confirm they both reverse in a similier manner, so if Fiats are to be avoided so should Fords, then lets consider Renaults, the outgoing model has to my knowledge had more gearbox failures than Fiat, so definatly avoid those. MB's generaly regarded as most reliable, but they still have problems with DPF's and guess what, the odd gearbox failure! I will admit that I put off buying a x250 until the latest mods to gearbox had been done as I considered the early x250 might be prone to gearbox failure, but then I only know of one person to have a failure of the gearbox, even though they have a tendancy to judder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaun Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 I feel it's such a shame that Fiat allowed itself to get into such a position that threads like this persevere for years on end. Some of us don't reverse very often, so the well-documented judder woes aren't much of an issue, but it is clearly obvious how much of a problem it has been for others. I've personally never believed it was a driver issue, having properly tested mine before Fiat's modifications were done. My uphill reverse test was rather scary, due to the van tanking backwards at such speed (due to the overly high reverse gearing), and then having a smoking clutch when trying to control that daft speed. However, I don't know how representative I am, but in three years of ownership, I've never had to reverse in that way since. So, speaking as someone who spends what appears to be a disproportionate amount of Ducato time going forwards, I'd like to confirm what so many others have been at pains to say, against the almost tribal vitriol against this particular brand, that it's such a delight to drive, and that I've had no issues with it whatsoever. Shaun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Any unit that judders and eats up clutches is not good enough be it any make or model. Motorhomes tend to be around for quite awhile as most owners do low mileage per annum and are usually well looked after. Yes it is a disgrace that certain manfacturers let this go on . Bringing out a new model that is supposed to have the problem fixed and ignoring the problem of the old one, really is not good enough for the owners who are left with them or for future purchasers of same. Regards, Brendan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rupert123 Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Brian Kirby - 2011-06-09 5:56 PM rupert123 - 2011-06-09 2:29 PM ......................Certainly no modern Ford ................will, never driven one but doubt the new Renault will either. Come on Brendan let us have a few facts here. Oi! Fair do's Henry! Mine will! Mk 7 Transit 350 FWD 130PS, 3,500Kg MAM. Not unreasonably uphill, and sometimes tricky over uneven ground, but on tarmac or level grass it's a pussycat. No throttle, engage clutch gently, the revs automatically increase as required, and off you go. I do it nearly all the time when pitching. Rolls a bit quicker than walking speed. Sorry Brian I was under the impression the so called problem was uphill. My Fiat will do this on the level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 onecal vw - 2011-06-09 10:57 PM Any unit that judders and eats up clutches is not good enough be it any make or model. Motorhomes tend to be around for quite awhile as most owners do low mileage per annum and are usually well looked after. Yes it is a disgrace that certain manfacturers let this go on . Bringing out a new model that is supposed to have the problem fixed and ignoring the problem of the old one, really is not good enough for the owners who are left with them or for future purchasers of same. Regards, Brendan I will ask ONCE AGAIN, which model are you talking about, your rantings seem to some of us absurd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 ..does it really matter anymore?..will everyone please stop!.. Some owners have experienced "judder"..some owners haven't..! Why can't everyone just leave it at that..?? This thread is serving no purpose..it is no longer advising owners(or prospective owners)of what to avoid or how to go about getting a remedy if a fault exists... Surely it's time all this bickering came to an end.. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyC Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Hear flaming Hear, Pepe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 pepe63 - 2011-06-10 11:25 AM ..does it really matter anymore?..will everyone please stop!.. Some owners have experienced "judder"..some owners haven't..! Why can't everyone just leave it at that..?? This thread is serving no purpose..it is no longer advising owners(or prospective owners)of what to avoid or how to go about getting a remedy if a fault exists... Surely it's time all this bickering came to an end.. *-) Hello Gang, It was suggested a very long time ago during Andy's campaign to bring the problem to the attention of the masses and thereby get some action from Fiat et al that the moderators could permanently pin a brief summary of the problem, likely causes and ways to remedy the situation. A single; highly informative item should be written and fixed, permantly such as is the 'great electricity debate' so that without seemingly endless pages of discussion, diatribe and insult the fact could be stated and it would act as a signpost for anyone who has or is worried about judder issues so that they know what to do about it. I am absolutely one for allowing opinions about absolutely anything but I feel this all too often gets in the way of properly informed fact and anyone searching through the hundreds of pages of discussion on this topic could become seriously frustrated and may not take the highly valuable information that is dotted around particularly seriously; and that would be a tragedy. I appeal to the common sense of the members of the forum and the moderators to give this serious consideration as I believe it would restore some credibility to the Motorhome Matters pages while providing the clear and balanced factual information that a great many people require. This is too big an issue for the casual investigator to come away none the wiser! To to the perennial trouble makers who will follow this post I implore you to just this once accept that though the number of people that had the problem was probably not huge in the great scheme of things, and that the number of vehicles out there that have not been fixed or the owners still have problems is smaller still, this problem (for those that have or may have it in the future) is enormous. It causes emotional and financial upset beyond imagination and for that reason alone it is worth taking extremely seriously. Now; before you reply, please read what i said again. There is nothing contentious in there and you would have to agree and be sympathetic to those unfortunate people that have suffered, and suffered for a long time. I am sure none (yes NONE) of them would have had a cat in hells chance of a resolution without the sterling efforts of the members of this forum and that is worthy of a great deal of respect. So be respectful; stop arguing and put your efforts into supporting my proposal. Remember; IT COULD HAVE BEEN YOU! Thanks Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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