Juddergate Again

[pepe63xnotuse]

From a broader view point,no matter what make the chassis is,I still think that "they" (the converters) should not be producing 7-8.5mtr coachbuilts,some weighing 4ton plus and sitting them on a fwd chassis that was *really* designed for relatively light duty,delivery type work...

(..in their commercial guise,most of these vans would spend their lives driving around half empty.. :-S)

 

A commercial owner or tradesman wouldn't buy a fwd Transit or Fiat flat bed and expect it to be able to operate flawlessly at the same time as leaving it loaded to within a few kg of it's max for the full duration of it's life..

 

Slightly off topic sorry.. *-)

 

 

[arthur49]

Best thing I ever did, down-sizing to my "lowly 2.2 shoe-box" 8-)

 

 

........ and me: thought we would struggle for space but simply being more selective in items taken and making better use of space means, for us, a more pleasurable experience............ sorry if a bit off topic but incidentally not a trace of judder on a Pug 2.2 6 speed 2010 build.

 

Arthur

[rupert123]

Mike88 - 2011-04-15 10:28 AM

 

Rolandrat - with respect who cares about gear ratios and the components used. The key issue is whether modified vehicles and those manufactured post 2009 judder. Everything else is totally irrelevant.

 

There is absolutely no point in arguing the toss over the components used or people speculating that such and such a modification will not work or that modifications made will in time result in clutch and/or gearbox failure.

 

We do not know and we shall never know unless hard evidence is produced so let's stop speculating and deal with facts.

 

Mike you are wasting your breath, their are are few on here who will never admit this subject is now dead. Anyone who follows M/H forums must be well aware of past problems and look out for them.

[rolandrat]

I think a couple on here are lacking a sense of humour, shoebox is a CB radio term used to describe small van type vehicles and not meant to be derogatory in any way. I have been the owner of an IH Savanner and although the build quality was exceptional you couldn't swing a cat round in it, being a steel body it was very cold in winter and condensation was a problem.

[Guest Tracker]

rolandrat - 2011-04-15 5:41 PM

I think a couple on here are lacking a sense of humour,.

 

Gee whiz - you can say that again!

[steamer]

Hi all ,

 

life's been a touch busy for us so have'nt folowed this issue as perhaps we should have , what's the fiat fix comprise of ? , personally i have'nt had any problems albeit not done a tremendous mileage in last couple of years , our van is 3 years old in june & in all fairness thinking of changing it for an auto version ( manly for the missus ) as i will be driving the lorry & lowloader - all 62' 6" long :D

 

would be interested in any replies .

 

regards

[Wallynnette]

Hi, we had our 2007 2.3 Fiat sorted just after Christmas, the procedure took approx 1 month from the first phone call to getting the job completed. The dealer requested I had both mods done, luckily for us they ( Fiat ) agreed, so they put upgraded engine mounts on plus the corrrect reverse gear, uprated clutch and all other related parts. All apart from the release bearing (why I'm not sure) which I had to pay for, this cost to me was £87 + vat which I thought a small price to pay for all that work undertaken. As for the camper it drives like a dream forward AND reverse. (lol)

[steamer]

Thanks for that , only thing is ours is the 3 ltr version , anybody got any news on this engine style please ?

[rupert123]

steamer - 2011-04-27 7:36 AM

 

Thanks for that , only thing is ours is the 3 ltr version , anybody got any news on this engine style please ?

 

Yes no fix availible or needed.

[rupert123]

Sorry double post, why can these not be deleted?

[Guest JudgeMental]

rupert123 - 2011-04-27 10:51 AM

 

steamer - 2011-04-27 7:36 AM

 

Thanks for that , only thing is ours is the 3 ltr version , anybody got any news on this engine style please ?

 

Yes no fix availible or needed.

 

I thought that only the 3 L auto was problermo free?

[Tomo3090]

When we bought our 2008 Cheyenne 660 I did look at the option of a Mercedes, Autotrail did them then. Apart from the increase in price of nearly 2 grand the Merc didn't have the chassis capacity for a vehicle over 3.8 tonnes. Neither could I get one with as many optional extras as the FIAT. (Neither was buying any model other than an Autotrail). So having no other option I went for that one and having done 24,500 miles from North Lewis to Sicily to Erg Chebbi Sand Dune in Morocco and any mountain range in between, I'm glad I did. It drives brilliantly, is very comfy and hasn't given me a seconds trouble, forwards or backwards.

 

I do appreciate others have had problems and it seems FIATs approach to them is disgraceful, and I hope they get them sorted, but for me The FIATS been a success.

 

I also wonder if the other makes, Ford & Renault, coming on to the market will start to have their own "Juddergate" problems by the time the same number of vehicles on the road as motorhomes as FIATare reached. I can remember FIATS and their other stablemates were universally lauded as the way forward for motorhome power units back in 2007.

[rupert123]

JudgeMental - 2011-04-27 10:56 AM

 

rupert123 - 2011-04-27 10:51 AM

 

steamer - 2011-04-27 7:36 AM

 

Thanks for that , only thing is ours is the 3 ltr version , anybody got any news on this engine style please ?

 

Yes no fix availible or needed.

 

I thought that only the 3 L auto was problermo free?

 

Eddie I do not think that their is a make of van on the market that is problem free, what I meant was in direct answer to the question about unpgrades to the three litre and this is Fiats position on it.

[Colin Leake]

Having put off changing until we were convinced the judder problem had been solved we have just taken delivery of our new Auto-Trail Apache 632 and are happy to report that after our first trip we have experienced no problems. In fact it seems to be able to reverse up our steep, curved and difficult drive better than our old 5 speeder. No sign of judder or smell of smoking clutch as I edge slowly and very carefully up the drive under my wives expert guidance. Just one thought we know there were limitations on how low a reverse gear they could squeeze in. Ours is on the light chassis (I can only drive up to 3,500 due to age and being diabetic) which means it rides on the smaller 15" wheels rather than the 16" used on the heavier chassis. Maybe this means we actually have an effectively lower gear and could explain why in the main sub 3,500 motorhomes seem to have to some extent been less effected by the problems.

[Colin Leake]

Having put off changing until we were convinced the judder problem had been solved we have just taken delivery of our new Auto-Trail Apache 632 and are happy to report that after our first trip we have experienced no problems. In fact it seems to be able to reverse up our steep, curved and difficult drive better than our old 5 speeder. No sign of judder or smell of smoking clutch as I edge slowly and very carefully up the drive under my wives expert guidance. Just one thought we know there were limitations on how low a reverse gear they could squeeze in. Ours is on the light chassis (I can only drive up to 3,500 due to age and being diabetic) which means it rides on the smaller 15" wheels rather than the 16" used on the heavier chassis. Maybe this means we actually have an effectively lower gear and could explain why in the main sub 3,500 motorhomes seem to have to some extent been less effected by the problems.

[Colin Leake]

Sorry double posting. The first attempt came up with a server problem message!

[onecal]

Hi,

I think the problem may still persist on larger motorhomes over 3.5.but not as bad. I hope the call I got was a "one off" as this is going on way too long.

Lets hope FIAT do something for the owners of older motorhomes which may suffer from this problem. We shall WAIT AND SEE,

Regards,

Brendan

[Guest Tracker]

I believe that the problems that will arise for owners due to the Euro 5 emmisions regulations will make Juddergate look like a non event given that, in spite of what they may claim, manufacturers these days like to use you and me as a test bed for their new fangled and unproven in the real world technology?

[Stormy]

manufacturers these days like to use you and me as a test bed for their new fangled and unproven in the real world technology?

 

To be fair these days most test engineering is dealt with in the virtual world, but the past is littered with some fine examples of the public testing unknowingly; just cast an eye over the aviation industry. Modern vehicles outperform their previous counterparts in every comparison you care to make, occasionally things will go wrong but todays designs are inherently better by design.  

 

[onecal]

Yes, but lets hope for the sake of the FIAT owners who have and are still going through a rough time that maybe they come good this and fix the problem,

We shall wait and see.

Regards,

Brendan

[rupert123]

onecal vw - 2011-05-01 7:02 AM

 

Yes, but lets hope for the sake of the FIAT owners who have and are still going through a rough time that maybe they come good this and fix the problem,

We shall wait and see.

Regards,

Brendan

 

What Fiat owners? We have what remains the best base vehicle on the market, from reports on here by new owners no sign of judder. The fix seems to be effective and many like myself, have not even bothered with that, I have not had any problems at all. What has past problems got to do with euro 5 anyway, personally I cannot see how it can be any great problem, perhaps Rich can explain in detail what he means. We had the same talk about euro 4 and it past largely unnoticed.

[Brian Kirby]

rupert123 - 2011-04-27 10:51 AM Sorry double post, why can these not be deleted?

Oddly, it seems they can.  I did so by accident yesterday, when the server was having one of its geriatric moments!

I posted, the server glitched and, knowing that it tells lies about what it has done, I opened the forum in a second window (so two windows simultaneously showing forum - hey, full stereo vision here! :-)), and clicked "New threads" to check whether my post was showing.  It was.  So, back to the first window, still containing the server error message, went back to the edit screen ("back" button, top left), which still contained the text of the post, hit the back button again to empty the edit box, returned to the string, posted a reply to another post, got the server error again, again refreshed the New threads on the second screen, and there was my second post.  Switched to first screen, used the back button again on the server error to get to the edit screen, then again the dump the contents of the edit screen (to prevent a double post), and closed the first forum window leaving only the second open.  Refreshed "New posts" to finally check content of both posts for errors, and both had disappeared!  After that, I went to the pub!  :-D

So, I think just repeatedly using the back button after posting, even after the server has recorded the post, in effect, "unposts" it.

Mind, it would be far easier if we could get an error free server, a simple delete button operable by the OP, and a longer time window than 30 mins for editing posts.  Maybe about 4 hours for both?  Anyone?

[Guest Tracker]

Brian Kirby - 2011-05-01 12:00 PM

Mind, it would be far easier if we could get an error free server, a simple delete button operable by the OP, and a longer time window than 30 mins for editing posts.  Maybe about 4 hours for both?  Anyone?

 

Wouldn't it be luverly!

[jhorsf]

Brian Kirby - 2011-05-01 12:00 PM

rupert123 - 2011-04-27 10:51 AM Sorry double post, why can these not be deleted?

Oddly, it seems they can.  I did so by accident yesterday, when the server was having one of its geriatric moments!

I posted, the server glitched and, knowing that it tells lies about what it has done, I opened the forum in a second window (so two windows simultaneously showing forum - hey, full stereo vision here! :-)), and clicked "New threads" to check whether my post was showing.  It was.  So, back to the first window, still containing the server error message, went back to the edit screen ("back" button, top left), which still contained the text of the post, hit the back button again to empty the edit box, returned to the string, posted a reply to another post, got the server error again, again refreshed the New threads on the second screen, and there was my second post.  Switched to first screen, used the back button again on the server error to get to the edit screen, then again the dump the contents of the edit screen (to prevent a double post), and closed the first forum window leaving only the second open.  Refreshed "New posts" to finally check content of both posts for errors, and both had disappeared!  After that, I went to the pub!  :-D

So, I think just repeatedly using the back button after posting, even after the server has recorded the post, in effect, "unposts" it.

Mind, it would be far easier if we could get an error free server, a simple delete button operable by the OP, and a longer time window than 30 mins for editing posts.  Maybe about 4 hours for both?  Anyone?

so this should not be here acording to Brian?

[jhorsf]

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