Maybe its not a myth?...............

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2014-07-14 7:02 PM

 

 

CO is carbon MONOXIDE. It is colourless, tasteless, odourless and non-irritant. It works by destroying the ability of the blood to transport oxygen around the body. Death results from multiple organ failure. At any level some degree of treatment is essential to prevent later complications.

 

CO2 is carbon DIOXIDE. In the context of gas attacks, it is completely irrelevant.

 

Dave, your detector is a carbon monoxide detector, not a carbon dioxide detector. You chose to place this string in Motorhome Matters, presumably as you thought it may be of some use and warn others of the reported risk. As you are now conducting it, it is barely suitable for inclusion in Chatterbox.

 

Since you seem not to know the difference between CO and CO2, there really seems little chance that you know any more about the relative dangers of, or ways to safely administer, a narcotic gas, than a first year anaesthetics student.

 

!

 

You may of missed it Brian...............but I did earlier confess to getting my monoxides and dioxides in a twist ;-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Brian Kirby - 2014-07-14 7:02 PM

 

pelmetman - 2014-07-14 11:27 AM

 

Further to my initial scenario..........and folllowing rudimentary research into using vehicle exhaust fumes as a method to incapacitate the occupants ;-)...............

 

1) Why do I think exhaust gas was used?............

 

As the common denominator with all these reports seems to be..........."We also both had a thick head and a sore throat in the morning and just felt ill."..............symptoms similar to mild carbon monoxide poisoning...........................

Just a few facts.

 

Re 1 above, the symptoms reported may well be similar to those of mild CO poisioning, but mild CO poisioning does not render the victim unconcious. What followed therefore was irrelevant.

 

CO2 merely sufficates the victim, but again, it is not a narcotic. The symptoms of CO2 "poisioning" are not those described in the Mail article.

 

In the case of either gas, unconsiousness is the result of prolonged exposure, and is quickly followed by death.

 

In no recorded case of gassing to faciltiate robbery has there been a report of the victim requiring extensive medical treatment following their experience, as would be necessary following CO poisioning.

 

CO is carbon MONOXIDE. It is colourless, tasteless, odourless and non-irritant. It works by destroying the ability of the blood to transport oxygen around the body. Death results from multiple organ failure. At any level some degree of treatment is essential to prevent later complications.

 

You need to Google more Brian :D.................symptoms of mild carbon monoxide poisoning are according to my mate Google ;-)..........................headache, nausea, dizziness, *********drowsiness************so if your already asleep what chances of waking up eh? :-S.............

 

PS.........It's stopped raining :-D.................but now it's blowing a gale 8-)................

[colin]

Dave, what have I told you about posting Daily Fail stories *-)

 

Remember this one about that poor pensioner? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266170/Disabled-caravanner-prosecuted-keeping-penknife-car-use-picnics.html

 

I've just recently found out a bit more info, here's what the Daily Fail missed out

 

Supt Meakin said in his statement: "At 11.45pm on February 23, police received a report that while Mr Knowles was in the Highweek Inn he had made an alleged threat that he was going to use a knife to harm someone.

"The police were advised that Mr Knowles had left the address in a vehicle.

"The vehicle was stopped a short while later by my police officers, where Mr Knowles was arrested for supplying a positive breath test. A further test at the police station proved he was under the legal drink drive limit."

"The vehicle was searched for a weapon and a Buck Whittaker lock knife was found. The knife is illegal and has a serrated edge."

Supt Meakin maintained it was not a Swiss Army-style knife, as stated in Knowles's court case by prosecutor Philip Sewell.

Supt Meakin said: "Mr Knowles was interviewed the following morning about the alleged threats and the Crown Prosecution Service made a decision, based on all the circumstances, to charge Mr Knowles with the knife offence.

"I was really pleased that the police responded immediately to concerns raised by members of the public and local business community. The intervention stopped what could have been a very serious incident.

[Guest pelmetman]

colin - 2014-07-14 10:18 PM

 

Dave, what have I told you about posting Daily Fail stories *-)

 

Remember this one about that poor pensioner? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266170/Disabled-caravanner-prosecuted-keeping-penknife-car-use-picnics.html

 

I've just recently found out a bit more info, here's what the Daily Fail missed out

 

Supt Meakin said in his statement: "At 11.45pm on February 23, police received a report that while Mr Knowles was in the Highweek Inn he had made an alleged threat that he was going to use a knife to harm someone.

"The police were advised that Mr Knowles had left the address in a vehicle.

"The vehicle was stopped a short while later by my police officers, where Mr Knowles was arrested for supplying a positive breath test. A further test at the police station proved he was under the legal drink drive limit."

"The vehicle was searched for a weapon and a Buck Whittaker lock knife was found. The knife is illegal and has a serrated edge."

Supt Meakin maintained it was not a Swiss Army-style knife, as stated in Knowles's court case by prosecutor Philip Sewell.

Supt Meakin said: "Mr Knowles was interviewed the following morning about the alleged threats and the Crown Prosecution Service made a decision, based on all the circumstances, to charge Mr Knowles with the knife offence.

"I was really pleased that the police responded immediately to concerns raised by members of the public and local business community. The intervention stopped what could have been a very serious incident.

 

Confused of Jockland here Colin :-S...............I was unaware this thread was about the press? :-|.............have these robberies not been going on for a decade or more? *-).................maybe its not PC to mention them anymore ;-)...........

 

I fear it time I was banned :D..............as speaking ones mind is clearly not socially acceptable unless you've been banned a few times >:-)

 

PS..........I have been banged up because of the weather with a 3 litre box of wine, so I" Will" wake up tomorrow feeling like "sh*te" and er in doors is likely to suffer numerous gas attacks :$...............but will we be robbed?.......................

 

I'll report back tomorrow :D.............

[candapack]

pelmetman - 2014-07-14 10:47 PM

 

Confused of Jockland here Colin :-S...............I was unaware this thread was about the press?

 

.

 

Confused living in Jockland here Dave - what exactly IS this thread about?

And why the **** am I still following it?

No smileys, I think they get you overexcited.

[Guest pelmetman]

candapack - 2014-07-14 10:59 PM

 

pelmetman - 2014-07-14 10:47 PM

 

Confused of Jockland here Colin :-S...............I was unaware this thread was about the press?

 

.

 

Confused living in Jockland here Dave - what exactly IS this thread about?

And why the **** am I still following it?

No smileys, I think they get you overexcited.

 

I apologise I'm just a visitor ;-)..................but unfortunately I am not prepared to swallow the myth that gassing does not happen...........probably because the myth has happened to often over so many years :-|..........

 

Nice country though...........when I can see it :D..................although I can see why a quarter of my ancestor left.............if this is a typical July :-S....................

[capcloser]

Dave come on how dare you have an opinion that differs from the facts lol.There are gases that can make you sleepy i worked in the fibreglass trade for many years and the firm won a contract to make ice cream van bodies which are made upside down in a huge mould,a gas called styrene i think is released as it cures which affects us like being very drunk or high on drugs,we had a couple of guys pass out before they realised what was happening and installed fans which also allow the resin to cure quicker.Obviously I'm not suggesting they knock up a quick canoe under yer van just saying! I dont know if its possible or not to gas the occupants of a van but i reckon if it can be done some low life scrot will find a way they are very inventive,but sorry dave i think maybe too much beer could be a factor well it would be for me >:-)

[Guest pelmetman]

Dam repeats *-)

[Guest pelmetman]

capcloser - 2014-07-14 11:23 PM

 

,but sorry dave i think maybe too much beer could be a factor well it would be for me >:-)

 

Fair comment Cap ;-)...............but if your prepared to dig a bit deeper, then you'll find tea'total folk who appear to have woken up p*ssed :-S..........not that it'll alter my moho habits ;-)...................

 

I just think folk should be given the info of a potential problem, and those who believe they have suffered such attacks not treated with contempt :-|...........................

 

PS heating's still on 8-).............

 

 

[capcloser]

Fair comment to you,your right if it is possible and some people obviously believe it has happened to them then it should be investigated and people should be made aware,had a bad scare ourselves the first year we installed the woodburner,actually felt a bit headachy and throat felt slightly sore long before alarm went off,feels like the start of a cold,had to open all windows and doors and shovel fire out into a bucket which then filled the van with smoke! Turns out a lump of soot had detached a blocked the chimney.Back to gassing,it shouldn't be that hard to do some tests to see if it could be done surely,then you bury the myth or sell s**tloads of gas alarms! :$

[Guest pelmetman]

I'm a convert to gas alarms ;-)............not the fancy ones but the bog standards ones :D............but something else peoples might not be aware of they need replacing every few years...........and I don't mean just the batteries as apparently the complicated stuff inside don't last ;-)...............

 

 

[docted]

If gassing is possible why have we not heard tales of HGV drivers being gasssed and their vehicle stolen. Their cabin is a lot smaller than than most motorhomes and the contents of their lorry would be worth a whole lot more than contents of a motorhome.

 

[nowtelse2do]

docted - 2014-07-15 2:26 PM

 

If gassing is possible why have we not heard tales of HGV drivers being gasssed and their vehicle stolen. Their cabin is a lot smaller than than most motorhomes and the contents of their lorry would be worth a whole lot more than contents of a motorhome.

 

There's just one that I know of but he was gassed because he left his Calor Gas cooker on in his cab either after cooking or trying to heat the cab. He was on the Italian side of the Mont Blanc Tunnel for about a week before being found. It happened a few year ago.

 

Truck cab heaters usually run off diesel.

 

If gas is pumped into a van, wouldn't the spark of the fridge igniter blow it up ?

 

Dave

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Not if the fridge is properly installed, because it would be sealed in.

 

If you look into the reports of these gassings, quite a few are repeats of the same report. There are a handful of cases reported each year, no one is ever (apparently) any the worse for the "experience", and no-one can explain how the gas is administered, or what gas may have been uesd.

 

Easy-start was a hot contender around the time I asked the Royal College of Anaesthetists for their view, because it contains ether. However, ether is a notoriously dangerous anaesthetic, and it was judged almost impossible to anaesthetise people in a volume is large and leaky as a motorhome without causing at least some deaths.

 

The reports persist, but so do reports of flying saucers and aliens. Anything is possible, but on balance, I think people who have been robbed have felt they needed an excuse for how someone was able to break into their van while they slept. A carelessly unlocked door or window seems a more probable explanation, but presumably wouldn't go down too well with an insurer. I'm also intrigued that the stories seem only to surface through the press/TV. One hears little of these stories via the insurers themselves, or on the internet, although one might think those would be the natural source.

 

Getting robbed, and then phoning the Daily Thingummy to tell them about it just seems a bit odd, to me. Don't know whether it is attention seeking, a desire to warn others, or just making sure it is widely publicised before the insurance claim goes in. Still, it seems an odd thing to do.

[Guest pelmetman]

From trucknet ;-)..............

 

 

Re: Gas Attacks

Postby oldbob » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:27 pm

 

Deepinvet wrote:

Funny this, I was only just talking to a friend of mine this morning who says he got gassed in Belgium.....The thing is he didn't realise untill the medical people at Dover told him...He did have 2 immigrants found in his trl when he was waiting for the boat.

There is alot more to this story but he might just come on here and tell you himself......Hope your feeling better Bob you old knacker.... :lol:

 

I am feeling better thx m8 had to get my daughter to type this out as still got blurred vision got me eyedrops tho not that they helping doc said to just relax n try and rest my eyes will give u a bell in the week

to all that dont belive think of the others out there that have children with them in campers they are getting gassed and robbed of their belongings WILL IT HAVE TO TAKE A DEATH BEFORE ACTION IS TAKEN!!!! :evil:

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Re: Gas Attacks

Postby Harry Monk » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:51 pm

 

oldbob wrote:

I am feeling better thx m8 had to get my daughter to type this out as still got blurred vision got me eyedrops tho not that they helping doc said to just relax n try and rest my eyes will give u a bell in the week

to all that dont belive think of the others out there that have children with them in campers they are getting gassed and robbed of their belongings WILL IT HAVE TO TAKE A DEATH BEFORE ACTION IS TAKEN!!!! :evil:

 

 

 

But you didn't even realise you had been gassed until the medical people at Dover told you? Who are these medical people anyway, I've never been given a medical at Dover?

 

What CM and Rikki want is *documented* evidence. If you have any I'm sure they would be interested in seeing it.

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Harry Monk

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Re: Gas Attacks

Postby oldbob » Tue Aug 10, 2010 8:18 pm

 

Harry Monk wrote:

oldbob wrote:

I am feeling better thx m8 had to get my daughter to type this out as still got blurred vision got me eyedrops tho not that they helping doc said to just relax n try and rest my eyes will give u a bell in the week

to all that dont belive think of the others out there that have children with them in campers they are getting gassed and robbed of their belongings WILL IT HAVE TO TAKE A DEATH BEFORE ACTION IS TAKEN!!!! :evil:

 

 

 

But you didn't even realise you had been gassed until the medical people at Dover told you? Who are these medical people anyway, I've never been given a medical at Dover?

 

What CM and Rikki want is *documented* evidence. If you have any I'm sure they would be interested in seeing it.

 

I DID NOT SAY IT WAS MEDICAL PEOPLE IN DOVER THAT TOLD ME ALSO PAPER WORK FROM THE SOUTH EAST AMBULANE SERVICE WAS FAXED TO THIS SITE SAYIN I WAS SUFFERING FROM POST GASSING WHAT ELSE DO U WANT I WAS TOLD IN CALAIS THAT I WAS THE SECOND DRIVER SUFFERING THE EFFECTS OF GASSING OLDBOB

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[Symbol Owner]

Bl**dy Hell Dave!, you really do believe in fairy tales don't you?

What a load of illiterate dross those truckers write -- even worse than some motorhomers!

 

Me, I'm with Brian ( and Frank -- both the 'banned' model and the 'Had enough' version!) -- and I've read all 9 pages of the 'old' thread - what a load of unscientific drivel some gullible people will believe!

 

Not a lot more to say -- except that, if I do ever take my 'van abroad, I'll make sure that I never park it overnight on an 'Aire de Service'!

 

Cheers,

 

Colin.

 

And............... P.S. :-

I always thought that the Mail was a ghastly paper, but I didn't realise that most of it is complete fiction -- utter twaddle!

 

C.

[candapack]

Brian Kirby - 2014-07-15 7:23 PM

 

 

The reports persist, but so do reports of flying saucers and aliens. Anything is possible, .

 

Brian, I think you may have stumbled on the answer.

These are indeed real gassings, carried out by aliens in flying saucers, using a gas that we poor earthlings have no knowledge of.

They take some trinkets and knick knacks to make it look like an Earth style robbery, but their real goal is some human DNA for an unknown but no doubt nefarious purpose.

For the right quality of DNA, they are targeting the motorhoming community. You have been warned.

[Guest pelmetman]

Maybe the terminology needs changing from gas to "Incapacitant" ;-)..................

 

23 September 2010

Sandbach M6 - Gas Attacks: Thursday - Sandbach Motorway Services, M6 junc.17 (near Crewe) Two truckers were subject to an incident where they were allegedly gassed in their cabs.

Despite some communications issues, the Czechoslovakian and Polish drivers related that they both awoke, choking, while still in their vehicles. They managed to exit their cabs - and discovered their trailer curtains had been slashed, but with nothing apparently stolen.

 

****Police, Paramedics and Haz Chem were all called to the scene and are of the view that an INCAPACITANT had been used.******

 

Truckpol urges drivers, despatchers and hauliers to take note of this method of attack and to report any incidents immediately.

General information about this particular incident can be reported to Cheshire Police: 0845 458 0000 or Truckpol

 

Possibly time for another letter from the RCoA?................but are they experts in incpacitants as well? :-|.........

 

 

[Guest Had Enough]

So are we now back to gassing using a spray-in narcotic gas, which anyone with an IQ over 80 now knows is impossible to administer without killing most of the people on which you try it?

 

Or did the gassers use Pelmetman's new method of pulling up to this lorry on a busy motorway services, attach a hose to their exhaust pipe and, without anyone noticing, run the other end of the hose into the truck's cab and give the sleeping driver just enough carbon monoxide to knock him out but not kill him?

 

Has this forum ever had a man so gullible, so utterly silly and so egotistically pig-headed as Professor Pelmetman? Everyone is wrong except him!

 

But here's a snippet from the Truckers' Forum that Professor P won't want to publish:

 

'Truckpol has stated that gas attacks on unsuspecting haulage and couriers in Europe are a myth, despite claims that the problem is worsening. DC Alan Soames, head of the Crime Intelligence Unit of Truckpol, claims that there is no evidence to suggest that sleeping drivers are being gassed so that thieves can make off with the goods they are delivering.

 

The statement comes amidst claims by a Europe Logistics subcontractor who claims that he still suffers side effects from a gas attack that allowed two illegal Iraqi immigrants to hide away in his lorry. He faces a fine of £2,000 per stowaway if found guilty of not carrying out the correct checks and safety precautions.

 

'DC Soames believes embarrassment has been the main factor in the claims, stating "There has been no medical proof so far. [European Law Enforcement Agency] Europol has done some research and were of the same opinion that they didn't believe it's actually happening."

 

Oh dear, he had two illegals hiding in his truck, which he claimed he didn't know about. I suppose that gassing is a pretty good excuse for his ignorance isn't it? Especially when he's facing a very heavy fine!

;-)

 

This debate reminds me of arguing with my daughter, when she was five! (lol)

[David Dwight]

This is a well known insurance scam, no evidence available to relate these incidents to any form of gas being used.

How many tankers of gas would be needed to fill an average size Motor home plus the carrier gas needed.

 

The article in question read it again and look at the picture the Female was quite large and the Male much smaller in stature, I also believe one was older than the other by several years. In this scenario one would have been dead.

Was there any residue of gas used ie smell. Walk into any Hospital and one of the first things you notice is the smell, this is the underlying smell of Anaesthetic gas.

As previously stated have there been any deaths, or do they only pick on those that are very healthy and fit all of an average size weight etc, no children or babies in the vehicle.

 

These stories come up every year in the Summer months it is know in the Media circles as the silly season (no news).

 

Some people need to get a life.

[Guest Had Enough]

David Dwight - 2014-07-15 10:17 PM

 

These stories come up every year in the Summer months it is know in the Media circles as the silly season (no news).

 

Some people need to get a life.

 

However, very silly people believe them and tell their silly friends who also believe them and so the myth is perpetuated amongst the unthinking classes.

 

This actually started thirty years ago. I first came across it when we used to use the overnight sleeper from Calais to Avignon. It was claimed that passengers were robbed in their cabins and that thieves must have fed in anaesthetic gas. God know how through a locked door?

 

Funnily enough no one ever spotted these thieves as they trundled their cylinders down the corridor!

 

Needless to say of course much later when some idiot was robbed in a caravan and didn't want to admit that they'd left a window unlocked they remembered these ludicrous gassing tales!

 

 

 

[Muswell]

"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens" Schiller

[pepe63xnotuse]

Muswell - 2014-07-16 8:14 AM

 

"Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens" Schiller

 

;-)

 

..or, as we used to say at work, "You can't educate pork!"...

[Guest pelmetman]

Had Enough - 2014-07-15 10:04 PM

 

So are we now back to gassing using a spray-in narcotic gas, which anyone with an IQ over 80 now knows is impossible to administer without killing most of the people on which you try it?

 

Or did the gassers use Pelmetman's new method of pulling up to this lorry on a busy motorway services, attach a hose to their exhaust pipe and, without anyone noticing, run the other end of the hose into the truck's cab and give the sleeping driver just enough carbon monoxide to knock him out but not kill him?

 

Has this forum ever had a man so gullible, so utterly silly and so egotistically pig-headed as Professor Pelmetman? Everyone is wrong except him!

 

But here's a snippet from the Truckers' Forum that Professor P won't want to publish:

 

'Truckpol has stated that gas attacks on unsuspecting haulage and couriers in Europe are a myth, despite claims that the problem is worsening. DC Alan Soames, head of the Crime Intelligence Unit of Truckpol, claims that there is no evidence to suggest that sleeping drivers are being gassed so that thieves can make off with the goods they are delivering.

 

The statement comes amidst claims by a Europe Logistics subcontractor who claims that he still suffers side effects from a gas attack that allowed two illegal Iraqi immigrants to hide away in his lorry. He faces a fine of £2,000 per stowaway if found guilty of not carrying out the correct checks and safety precautions.

 

'DC Soames believes embarrassment has been the main factor in the claims, stating "There has been no medical proof so far. [European Law Enforcement Agency] Europol has done some research and were of the same opinion that they didn't believe it's actually happening."

 

Oh dear, he had two illegals hiding in his truck, which he claimed he didn't know about. I suppose that gassing is a pretty good excuse for his ignorance isn't it? Especially when he's facing a very heavy fine!

;-)

 

 

Its raining again >:-)...................

 

So lets examine these assertions in the light of the gas attack skeptics re the original article ;-).................well I think we can disassociate any possible people smuggling accusations ;-)....................So according to the skeptics sniggering behind their G&T's that the couple where p*ssed :-|.....................which explains why they both felt "ill" the next morning................well based on my own extensive research into the effects of alcohol :D...............I can report that if I've had a skin full the night before then next day I do feel rough :-S................and there has been the odd occasion when I felt "ill".............but only after getting completely trolley'd the night before and mixing my drinks :$ .....................so according to the skeptics this couple after a days touring or driving pulled on to a "service area" so we can assume they intended moving on the next day ;-)............

 

They BOTH get completely smashed? ................Really?...........I maybe a fool but even I'm not that stupid *-)

 

Now for the skeptics next assertion..............They claimed to be gassed because they were embarrassed at being robbed :-S......................Naturally I can only speak from my perspective but if I'd been robbed I wouldn't be embarrassed.................I'd be feckin fuming >:-(...............

 

But clearly any robbed camper who is embarrassed into claiming they were gassed................can now expect to be ridiculed as well *-)..............

 

Seeing as you've been doing some reading on trucknet Frank, you will no doubt have noticed that many other truckers claimed to being gassed without any illegals involved ;-)..................At least you'll be safe Frank, as I suspect your campers so full of hot air any would be gasser would need a powerful compressor to pump it in :D...................

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

David Dwight - 2014-07-15 10:17 PM

 

The article in question read it again and look at the picture the Female was quite large and the Male much smaller in stature, I also believe one was older than the other by several years. In this scenario one would have been dead..

 

I should have another look ;-)...................the chap is clearly taller than the lady :D...................