Brian Kirby Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 This totally vacuous! Of course the virus originated in China. Has anyone denied that? Quite how it originated is unclear, but it seems either to have been at the Wuhan market, or at the Wuhan public health laboratories. So Wuhan. That has been common knowledge for months. People then spread the virus around China, and soon afterwards, out side China. The first three Covid cases in Europe was recorded on 17 January, in France. The first death, also in France, on 15 February. By 21 February nine countries had reported cases (Figure): Belgium (1), Finland (1), France (12), Germany (16), Italy (3), Russia (2), Spain (2), Sweden (1) and the UK (9), 47 in all. Of these, the place of probable infection was recorded in 35 cases, with 14 infected in China, and the remaining 21 within Europe. More detail here: https://tinyurl.com/ya68aw2s As at 21 February, Italy had just 3 cases, to Britain's 9. That much is reliable fact. In one small (pop 3,000) Italian Town, Vo Euganeo, in the Veneto, a small cluster had developed, resulting in the death of one inhabitant on 21 February. See here: https://tinyurl.com/ujsjkaw The town was immediately locked down (properly!) and subjected to mass testing, with any testing positive being compulsorily quarantined, under supervision, and the remainder of the population restricted from leaving their homes except to buy food and for medical reasons. The testing revealed that 3% of the population was infected. After two weeks of quarantine and lock down, that number had been reduced to 0.25%, and those cases were then isolated. As of 13 March, no new cases had been recorded. That is just one, small town, but is impressive in a country where, elsewhere, the virus ran amuck. It would be impossible, generally, to impose such measures across a western democracy with a population of several tens of millions but, what it illustrates is the desirability of swift, decisive, action by governments/health authorities. The experiences of this town were reported in the Guardian on 20 March, here: https://tinyurl.com/tmecryl so it is foolish to claim that the UK government had no indication of the need for swift action, and of what actions to seek to emulate. Condemning China will do nothing to change the facts of the evolution of the Coronavirus outbreak in the UK, and it is the facts on which we should concentrate, not this foolish babble from apologists seeking to draw a cloak over various government deficiencies. It's arrival in UK was inevitable, the "gold standard" was well documented, and sadly, we fell short on a number of counts. That is also a matter of record, and it has nothing to do with a search for perfection: I am not that naïve! I just expect the UK to be among the best, which is surely not anti-patriotic. There will be further pandemics, and to learn we must examine what went wrong. Otherwise, we risk merely repeating the same mistakes for the next one - which just may break out tomorrow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Wise words Brian. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Wise words Brian. Max Indeed, though it will prove too much reading for Pelmet who will come back with his usual babbling tweet like nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 2:20 PM mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Wise words Brian. Max Indeed, though it will prove too much reading for Pelmet who will come back with his usual babbling tweet like nonsense. I think you may be underestimating Dave. I'm expecting an intellectually thought provoking response from Dave. ( Which will include the words " Loony, lefty remoaner, loser ".) ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 1:22 PM Condemning China will do nothing to change the facts of the evolution of the Coronavirus outbreak in the UK, and it is the facts on which we should concentrate, not this foolish babble from apologists seeking to draw a cloak over various government deficiencies. It's arrival in UK was inevitable, the "gold standard" was well documented, and sadly, we fell short on a number of counts. That is also a matter of record, and it has nothing to do with a search for perfection: I am not that naïve! I just expect the UK to be among the best, which is surely not anti-patriotic. There will be further pandemics, and to learn we must examine what went wrong. Otherwise, we risk merely repeating the same mistakes for the next one - which just may break out tomorrow! It became perfectly clear from the bleatings of the Losers on here that your Boris Bashing has NOTHING to do with learning from mistakes *-) ......... The only Gold Standard you lot have gained is in "opportunism" by weaponising a pandemic 8-) ....... Judging by the polls the majority of the UK has sussed that out too >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-09 2:38 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 2:20 PM mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Wise words Brian. Max Indeed, though it will prove too much reading for Pelmet who will come back with his usual babbling tweet like nonsense. I think you may be underestimating Dave. I'm expecting an intellectually thought provoking response from Dave. ( Which will include the words " Loony, lefty remoaner, loser ".) ;-) Well that IS the side of the fence you chose? :D ........ I'm not biased.......I treat all Loony Lefty Remoaner Losers the same (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Remoaner Biased words Brian. Max Sorted your typo for you ;-) ........ There's no need to thank me :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-09 2:38 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 2:20 PM mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Wise words Brian. Max Indeed, though it will prove too much reading for Pelmet who will come back with his usual babbling tweet like nonsense. I think you may be underestimating Dave. I'm expecting an intellectually thought provoking response from Dave. ( Which will include the words " Loony, lefty remoaner, loser ".) ;-) You were right malc.....thats the limit of his 'vocabulary'. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 3:59 PM malc d - 2020-05-09 2:38 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 2:20 PM mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Wise words Brian. Max Indeed, though it will prove too much reading for Pelmet who will come back with his usual babbling tweet like nonsense. I think you may be underestimating Dave. I'm expecting an intellectually thought provoking response from Dave. ( Which will include the words " Loony, lefty remoaner, loser ".) ;-) You were right malc.....thats the limit of his 'vocabulary'. *-) I like to call a spade a spade ;-) ........ Which is why I call COVID19 ......Chinky Flu >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-09 2:54 PM mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Remoaner Biased words Brian. Max Sorted your typo for you ;-) ........ There's no need to thank me :D ....... You are the living demonstration of how low effrontery and unpleasantness of mankind can go down. In a serious forum, quoted texts should not be editable. And if there was a moderation, a COWARDLY ACTION like yours would be enough to ban you definitively from the user community. But I have some doubts that there is one here. Save the emoticons that in your case are only an indication of a humor of those who suffer from inability to converse. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 mtravel - 2020-05-09 4:15 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 2:54 PM mtravel - 2020-05-09 1:51 PM Remoaner Biased words Brian. Max Sorted your typo for you ;-) ........ There's no need to thank me :D ....... You are the living demonstration of how low effrontery and unpleasantness of mankind can go down. In a serious forum, quoted texts should not be editable. And if there was a moderation, a COWARDLY ACTION like yours would be enough to ban you definitively from the user community. But I have some doubts that there is one here. Save the emoticons that in your case are only an indication of a humor of those who suffer from inability to converse. Max It's reassurring to see being pompus is a not just restricted to Remoaner Brits :D ......... I'm sure our resident Remoaners Bullet and Barry will be shocked to know they have used a COWARDLY ACTION when they have edited my posts in the past (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-09 2:49 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 1:22 PM Condemning China will do nothing to change the facts of the evolution of the Coronavirus outbreak in the UK, and it is the facts on which we should concentrate, not this foolish babble from apologists seeking to draw a cloak over various government deficiencies. It's arrival in UK was inevitable, the "gold standard" was well documented, and sadly, we fell short on a number of counts. That is also a matter of record, and it has nothing to do with a search for perfection: I am not that naïve! I just expect the UK to be among the best, which is surely not anti-patriotic. There will be further pandemics, and to learn we must examine what went wrong. Otherwise, we risk merely repeating the same mistakes for the next one - which just may break out tomorrow! It became perfectly clear from the bleatings of the Losers on here that your Boris Bashing has NOTHING to do with learning from mistakes *-) ......... The only Gold Standard you lot have gained is in "opportunism" by weaponising a pandemic 8-) ....... Judging by the polls the majority of the UK has sussed that out too >:-) ........ What utter, utter, nonsense. Boris bashing? You do make I larf! :-D If the government were performing as well you seem to think, no-one would be able to raise the slightest criticism of them, would they? Yet criticism is omnipresent, even from within his own party's favourite newspaper, the Telegraph. For example: "Namely that, faced with the protestations of the London bubble, the PM has jettisoned the only sensible strategy for dealing with the biggest global crisis since the Second World War. To put lockdown in the most cynical terms, the Government has decided to trash the economy rather than expose itself to political criticism. Unless Mr Johnson U-turns, the fallout could be cataclysmic...." That wouldn't be my choice of ground for criticism, but at least it isn't your blind, supine, hero-worship! One could at least grapple with that as an argument for good governance! By contrast, your argument is...……………..what, exactly? I've never seen it. Is there one? Weaponising a pandemic? Where? We all get that you want Brexit above anything else in the world, measure everything against that yardstick, and are in fear that the government's handling of the pandemic so undermines its status as to threaten that objective. But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? Boris? Polls? Popularity rating? 36%? 100-36 = ? Oh yes, 64% - who think otherwise. :-) But then, that wasn't ever my point, was it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 5:06 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 2:49 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 1:22 PM Condemning China will do nothing to change the facts of the evolution of the Coronavirus outbreak in the UK, and it is the facts on which we should concentrate, not this foolish babble from apologists seeking to draw a cloak over various government deficiencies. It's arrival in UK was inevitable, the "gold standard" was well documented, and sadly, we fell short on a number of counts. That is also a matter of record, and it has nothing to do with a search for perfection: I am not that naïve! I just expect the UK to be among the best, which is surely not anti-patriotic. There will be further pandemics, and to learn we must examine what went wrong. Otherwise, we risk merely repeating the same mistakes for the next one - which just may break out tomorrow! It became perfectly clear from the bleatings of the Losers on here that your Boris Bashing has NOTHING to do with learning from mistakes *-) ......... The only Gold Standard you lot have gained is in "opportunism" by weaponising a pandemic 8-) ....... Judging by the polls the majority of the UK has sussed that out too >:-) ........ What utter, utter, nonsense. Boris bashing? You do make I larf! :-D If the government were performing as well you seem to think, no-one would be able to raise the slightest criticism of them, would they? Yet criticism is omnipresent, even from within his own party's favourite newspaper, the Telegraph. For example: "Namely that, faced with the protestations of the London bubble, the PM has jettisoned the only sensible strategy for dealing with the biggest global crisis since the Second World War. To put lockdown in the most cynical terms, the Government has decided to trash the economy rather than expose itself to political criticism. Unless Mr Johnson U-turns, the fallout could be cataclysmic...." That wouldn't be my choice of ground for criticism, but at least it isn't your blind, supine, hero-worship! One could at least grapple with that as an argument for good governance! By contrast, your argument is...……………..what, exactly? I've never seen it. Is there one? Weaponising a pandemic? Where? We all get that you want Brexit above anything else in the world, measure everything against that yardstick, and are in fear that the government's handling of the pandemic so undermines its status as to threaten that objective. But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? Boris? Polls? Popularity rating? 36%? 100-36 = ? Oh yes, 64% - who think otherwise. :-) But then, that wasn't ever my point, was it? Wasn't it Brian who claimed he'd vote for anyone other than a Tory ... Cant say hes best placed to come up with this diamond "if the Government were performing as well as you seem to think , no-one would be able to raise the slightest criticism of them" ... Yes you would princess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 5:06 PM But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? You are aware of the title of this thread? ;-) ......... "UK now the HIGHEST death rate in Europe" AND WHO STARTED IT? >:-) .......... But I agree using dodgy figures to point score is tasteless :-| ........ Perhaps you should have a word with Bullet? *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 5:06 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 2:49 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 1:22 PM Condemning China will do nothing to change the facts of the evolution of the Coronavirus outbreak in the UK, and it is the facts on which we should concentrate, not this foolish babble from apologists seeking to draw a cloak over various government deficiencies. It's arrival in UK was inevitable, the "gold standard" was well documented, and sadly, we fell short on a number of counts. That is also a matter of record, and it has nothing to do with a search for perfection: I am not that naïve! I just expect the UK to be among the best, which is surely not anti-patriotic. There will be further pandemics, and to learn we must examine what went wrong. Otherwise, we risk merely repeating the same mistakes for the next one - which just may break out tomorrow! It became perfectly clear from the bleatings of the Losers on here that your Boris Bashing has NOTHING to do with learning from mistakes *-) ......... The only Gold Standard you lot have gained is in "opportunism" by weaponising a pandemic 8-) ....... Judging by the polls the majority of the UK has sussed that out too >:-) ........ What utter, utter, nonsense. Boris bashing? You do make I larf! :-D If the government were performing as well you seem to think, no-one would be able to raise the slightest criticism of them, would they? Yet criticism is omnipresent, even from within his own party's favourite newspaper, the Telegraph. For example: "Namely that, faced with the protestations of the London bubble, the PM has jettisoned the only sensible strategy for dealing with the biggest global crisis since the Second World War. To put lockdown in the most cynical terms, the Government has decided to trash the economy rather than expose itself to political criticism. Unless Mr Johnson U-turns, the fallout could be cataclysmic...." That wouldn't be my choice of ground for criticism, but at least it isn't your blind, supine, hero-worship! One could at least grapple with that as an argument for good governance! By contrast, your argument is...……………..what, exactly? I've never seen it. Is there one? Weaponising a pandemic? Where? We all get that you want Brexit above anything else in the world, measure everything against that yardstick, and are in fear that the government's handling of the pandemic so undermines its status as to threaten that objective. But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? Boris? Polls? Popularity rating? 36%? 100-36 = ? Oh yes, 64% - who think otherwise. :-) But then, that wasn't ever my point, was it? Absolutely spot on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 5:59 PM and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? Absolutely spot on! Correct >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-09 5:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 5:06 PM But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? You are aware of the title of this thread? ;-) ......... "UK now the HIGHEST death rate in Europe" AND WHO STARTED IT? >:-) .......... You even quote the part of Brians post which refers to your 'fatuous claims' and 'weaponising' thereby confirming your mad obsession! Own goal scored yet again!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-09 6:05 PM Absolutely spot on! Correct >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 6:06 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 5:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 5:06 PM But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? You are aware of the title of this thread? ;-) ......... "UK now the HIGHEST death rate in Europe" AND WHO STARTED IT? >:-) .......... You even quote the part of Brians post which refers to your 'fatuous claims' and 'weaponising' thereby confirming your mad obsession! Own goal scored yet again!! Actually you and Brian are just proving my point ;-) ........ Did you not use unreliable statistics to start this Boris bashing thread? >:-) ......... Tastless or what *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-05-09 5:51 PM...…………….. Wasn't it Brian who claimed he'd vote for anyone other than a Tory ... Cant say hes best placed to come up with this diamond "if the Government were performing as well as you seem to think , no-one would be able to raise the slightest criticism of them" ... Yes you would princess Guff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 9, 2020 Author Share Posted May 9, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-09 6:21 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 6:06 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 5:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 5:06 PM But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? You are aware of the title of this thread? ;-) ......... "UK now the HIGHEST death rate in Europe" AND WHO STARTED IT? >:-) .......... You even quote the part of Brians post which refers to your 'fatuous claims' and 'weaponising' thereby confirming your mad obsession! Own goal scored yet again!! Actually you and Brian are just proving my point ;-) ........ Did you not use unreliable statistics to start this Boris bashing thread? >:-) ......... Pelmet, it's your constant references to China and looking for ways of excusing of our governments inept handling that don't help your case at all. As for statistics we currently have what we have via our own media and there is no denying it has not been well managed, that much has been crystal clear. China don't govern UK....we have our own government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-09 6:21 PM...………... Did you not use unreliable statistics to start this Boris bashing thread? >:-) .............. No, I did not, I initially pointed out that the number of dead did not correspond to a death rate. What Paul quoted was from Metro (in turn from the ONS), which, of the UK mortality, said "That is higher than Italy’s current count of 29,079, although its toll does not include suspected cases." (My italics.) That last sentence acknowledges differences in counting, which is the main reason that the figures should be treated (and read!) with care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 6:51 PM Birdbrain - 2020-05-09 5:51 PM...…………….. Wasn't it Brian who claimed he'd vote for anyone other than a Tory ... Cant say hes best placed to come up with this diamond "if the Government were performing as well as you seem to think , no-one would be able to raise the slightest criticism of them" ... Yes you would princess Guff. Chuckle ... You got me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 7:02 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 6:21 PM...………... Did you not use unreliable statistics to start this Boris bashing thread? >:-) .............. No, I did not, I initially pointed out that the number of dead did not correspond to a death rate. What Paul quoted was from Metro (in turn from the ONS), which, of the UK mortality, said "That is higher than Italy’s current count of 29,079, although its toll does not include suspected cases." (My italics.) That last sentence acknowledges differences in counting, which is the main reason that the figures should be treated (and read!) with care. So perhaps you should advise your Tastless Muppet mate ;-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 10, 2020 Share Posted May 10, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 6:53 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 6:21 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-09 6:06 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-09 5:57 PM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-09 5:06 PM But if anyone has "weaponised" the pandemic it is surely you, with your fatuous claims that because it started in China it is the fault of the Chinese that the UK government isn't on the ball, and then dredging up dodgy mortality figures to "prove" its success - in terms of the number of our dead! Tasteless, or what? You are aware of the title of this thread? ;-) ......... "UK now the HIGHEST death rate in Europe" AND WHO STARTED IT? >:-) .......... You even quote the part of Brians post which refers to your 'fatuous claims' and 'weaponising' thereby confirming your mad obsession! Own goal scored yet again!! Actually you and Brian are just proving my point ;-) ........ Did you not use unreliable statistics to start this Boris bashing thread? >:-) ......... Pelmet, it's your constant references to China and looking for ways of excusing of our governments inept handling that don't help your case at all. As for statistics we currently have what we have via our own media and there is no denying it has not been well managed, that much has been crystal clear. China don't govern UK....we have our own government. Whilst you prefer to ignore the FACT China was not only the source of the virus :-| ......... BUT also that they delibrately tried to cover it up and delay the rest of the WORLD finding out about it >:-( .......... "According to the BND: 'On January 21, China's leader Xi Jinping asked WHO chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus to hold back information about a human-to-human transmission and to delay a pandemic warning'. " "'The BND estimates that China's information policy lost four to six weeks to fight the virus worldwide'." https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8304471/Chinas-president-Xi-Jinping-personally-requested-delay-COVID-19-pandemic-warning.html If the Germans are saying it ;-) .........It must be true eh? >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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