Guest rael Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Birdbrain - 2020-05-06 7:26 AM rael - 2020-05-05 9:12 PM Birdbrain - 2020-05-05 9:30 PM rael - 2020-05-05 8:28 PM Birdbrain - 2020-05-05 9:18 PM rael - 2020-05-05 8:13 PM Anyway getting back to the main point of the OP. I anticipated what the 'conversation' might be like on the forum when I saw the news ref. number of dead, and I anticipated correctly. These are fellow human beings we are talking about (you know, the dead people) not statistics. I think some of us should just step back and read whats being written. Honestly, we could be discussing how many dogs/cats/gerbils have died not humans! Political point scoring over this issue is pretty tasteless. The whole Covid-19 thing is a monumental f**k up that has devastated and taken countless (at this stage) lives. It doesn't help that we were not prepared for this, but we are in it now. There have been some monumental cock ups that have cost lives and no doubt the blame game will go on for years, but lets alt least treat the victims and their families with a little more respect? Oh and for the record, I'm as left as they come, if that's important to some of you? "the whole Covid-19 thing is a monumental f**k up" ... "lets treat the victims and their families with a little more respect" ... Anyone ??? Absolutely nothing wrong with that mate. You may not like the phrasing but thats the way I speak, so tough. I'm talking about treating people as fellow humans and not statistics. But you know that, but you like a little dig. Im not your "mate" and I aint on about how you "speak" ... You contradict yaself ... Dummy blimey, you are a bitter one. If showing your comments for what they are makes me bitter then so be it princess Hmm, I thought I'd trod a fairly reasonable line, a few errors maybe, but do you have to get all hateful, mate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rael Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Bulletguy - 2020-05-05 9:27 PM rael - 2020-05-05 8:13 PM The whole Covid-19 thing is a monumental f**k up that has devastated and taken countless (at this stage) lives. It doesn't help that we were not prepared for this, but we are in it now. There have been some monumental cock ups that have cost lives and no doubt the blame game will go on for years.... I agree with your sentiments Rael but how can mentioning which government minister said what etc etc be avoided when they are the ones calling the shots over the stats etc, not to mention supplies which you know first hand about? It's a bit difficult really. Fair point bullet, I'm probably just getting a bit sick of the way folk are able to talk about human lives simply as numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 rael - 2020-05-06 12:36 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-05 9:27 PM rael - 2020-05-05 8:13 PM The whole Covid-19 thing is a monumental f**k up that has devastated and taken countless (at this stage) lives. It doesn't help that we were not prepared for this, but we are in it now. There have been some monumental cock ups that have cost lives and no doubt the blame game will go on for years.... I agree with your sentiments Rael but how can mentioning which government minister said what etc etc be avoided when they are the ones calling the shots over the stats etc, not to mention supplies which you know first hand about? It's a bit difficult really. Fair point bullet, I'm probably just getting a bit sick of the way folk are able to talk about human lives simply as numbers. I think much got lost due to the quick rise in daily statistics and i remember my shock at the outbreak thinking, 'blimey at this rate it won't be long before we are into five figures'.....and within days we were as it has climbed so rapidly. Personally, as yet, i only know of one person (albeit indirectly) who has died from Covid-19, the mother of my neighbours chap who passed away two weeks ago. Only her son whom i know very well, could attend the funeral....my neighbour couldn't go as she is not family. I've read reports of many individual cases, all tragic.....one poor chap who lost his entire family in the space of a month....both parents, sister and brother-in-law. I fully understand the point you made and it reminded me of the term "collateral damage" used for innocent civilian victims in a war zone. I never particularly cared for that term as all are someones mother, father, son, daughter needlessly killed. We are fighting a war with Covid, but 'the enemy' is invisible. The FT article i linked further upthread is interesting which is running a worldwide tracker and as Sage member Prof David Spiegelhalter, said, "there’s no denying that these are really serious numbers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 rael - 2020-05-06 12:36 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-05 9:27 PM rael - 2020-05-05 8:13 PM The whole Covid-19 thing is a monumental f**k up that has devastated and taken countless (at this stage) lives. It doesn't help that we were not prepared for this, but we are in it now. There have been some monumental cock ups that have cost lives and no doubt the blame game will go on for years.... I agree with your sentiments Rael but how can mentioning which government minister said what etc etc be avoided when they are the ones calling the shots over the stats etc, not to mention supplies which you know first hand about? It's a bit difficult really. Fair point bullet, I'm probably just getting a bit sick of the way folk are able to talk about human lives simply as numbers. One number that we don't hear about ( or maybe it's just hidden in the torrent of numbers we get ) is the number of people who have died, or are likely to die, because their treatment / operations were cancelled by the NHS, while they concentrated on Covid-19. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Just compare the death figures for the same month last year to now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-06 2:18 PM rael - 2020-05-06 12:36 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-05 9:27 PM rael - 2020-05-05 8:13 PM The whole Covid-19 thing is a monumental f**k up that has devastated and taken countless (at this stage) lives. It doesn't help that we were not prepared for this, but we are in it now. There have been some monumental cock ups that have cost lives and no doubt the blame game will go on for years.... I agree with your sentiments Rael but how can mentioning which government minister said what etc etc be avoided when they are the ones calling the shots over the stats etc, not to mention supplies which you know first hand about? It's a bit difficult really. Fair point bullet, I'm probably just getting a bit sick of the way folk are able to talk about human lives simply as numbers. One number that we don't hear about ( or maybe it's just hidden in the torrent of numbers we get ) is the number of people who have died, or are likely to die, because their treatment / operations were cancelled by the NHS, while they concentrated on Covid-19. :-( I suspect every country in the EU will be having similar problems :-| .......... At least we can rely on Bullet & Co to blame Boris......instead of the true culprits ...China *-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 6, 2020 Author Share Posted May 6, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-06 2:18 PM rael - 2020-05-06 12:36 PM Bulletguy - 2020-05-05 9:27 PM rael - 2020-05-05 8:13 PM The whole Covid-19 thing is a monumental f**k up that has devastated and taken countless (at this stage) lives. It doesn't help that we were not prepared for this, but we are in it now. There have been some monumental cock ups that have cost lives and no doubt the blame game will go on for years.... I agree with your sentiments Rael but how can mentioning which government minister said what etc etc be avoided when they are the ones calling the shots over the stats etc, not to mention supplies which you know first hand about? It's a bit difficult really. Fair point bullet, I'm probably just getting a bit sick of the way folk are able to talk about human lives simply as numbers. One number that we don't hear about ( or maybe it's just hidden in the torrent of numbers we get ) is the number of people who have died, or are likely to die, because their treatment / operations were cancelled by the NHS, while they concentrated on Covid-19. :-( Very true though i expect those would only become known to direct family and not published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-05-06 2:38 PM Just compare the death figures for the same month last year to now. That would just give us an estimate - we've got more than enough of those already - I prefer facts. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 There won’t be any figures for those who “might “ have died , any more than figures for those who didn’t die as there’s less traffic on the roads. An estimate is all that’s necessary. Though the NHS would like us to stop clapping as the rate of admissions to A&E has increased dramatically during clapping periods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soarer Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Every country have different ways of attributing the virus to the deaths I think people should be concentrating on the number of new infections in other words more testing When that number starts to reduce we may see some light.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Who are they testing? If it’s only NHS, then we are not really moving forward. If most people are in lockdown then presumably not passing it on or don’t have it or they are immune then it must be within hospitals that the virus is being transferred . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 jumpstart - 2020-05-06 3:36 PM There won’t be any figures for those who “might “ have died , any more than figures for those who didn’t die as there’s less traffic on the roads. An estimate is all that’s necessary. All hospitals will have records of cancelled treatment / operations - so that much could be published. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-06 3:03 PM At least we can rely on Bullet & Co to blame Boris......instead of the true culprits ...China *-) ....... When we started out in the strongest position being an island surrounded by water, and having plenty of notice to test and quarantine at the borders BoJo has 'taken back control' of, By what mad hatter logic is China responsible for the highest number of deaths being in Britain *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-06 5:14 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-06 3:03 PM At least we can rely on Bullet & Co to blame Boris......instead of the true culprits ...China *-) ....... By what mad hatter logic is China responsible for the highest number of deaths being in Britain *-) If Dave wants to believe that the Chinese government are running the British campaign against the virus - he is quite entitled to believe it. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 malc d - 2020-05-06 5:41 PM John52 - 2020-05-06 5:14 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-06 3:03 PM At least we can rely on Bullet & Co to blame Boris......instead of the true culprits ...China *-) ....... By what mad hatter logic is China responsible for the highest number of deaths being in Britain *-) If Dave wants to believe that the Chinese government are running the British campaign against the virus - he is quite entitled to believe it. :-| Reading some of the posts on here.....You'd think they were working for China's propaganda bureau *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Tracker - 2020-05-05 7:05 PM What I find obscene is the creation of sensationalist headlines and manipulation of such figures purely to try to make a political point. But then again, why would I expect any better behaviour from politically motivated miscreants? True The Financial Times compared the total number of deaths so far this year with previous years - to get an idea of the true number of deaths - including those told to go home and die, and including the extra Non Covid19related deaths caused by those not getting medical care because of Covid19. They found it about double the Government's figures - which were already the highest in Europe Kier Starmers asked BoJo 'How did we get here' But of course he didn't answer the question - just like his supporters on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-06 6:15 AM Barryd999 - 2020-05-05 11:06 PM It might seem like its political point scoring and maybe there is an element of that on here because of the old rivalry but is it not important that we question the governments actions in real time rather than waiting for a postmortem when its all too late where of course they will try and brush it all under the carpet? This is why many including myself have been banging on for ages for the science and data the government are using to be accessible across all parties. Not enough honesty and transparency and way too much lying and arse covering. I think a few mistakes and bad decisions can be tolerated as long as they are open about them but they cant help themselves. Lying, covering up and arse covering is the priority and it has to stop. The Government can't really deny their lying - their argument seems to be its necessary for the public to retain confidence in them and obey their lockdown instructions - even when they contradict each other, and the PM and Duke of Cornwall are ignoring them *-) Ignoring them - As indeed are you - Hypocrite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-06 9:47 PM Tracker - 2020-05-05 7:05 PM What I find obscene is the creation of sensationalist headlines and manipulation of such figures purely to try to make a political point. But then again, why would I expect any better behaviour from politically motivated miscreants? True The Financial Times compared the total number of deaths so far this year with previous years - to get an idea of the true number of deaths - including those told to go home and die, and including the extra Non Covid19related deaths caused by those not getting medical care because of Covid19. They found it about double the Government's figures - which were already the highest in Europe Kier Starmers asked BoJo 'How did we get here' But of course he didn't answer the question - just like his supporters on here. So Starmer is ignoring where the pandemic came from too 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-06 10:06 PM John52 - 2020-05-06 9:47 PM Tracker - 2020-05-05 7:05 PM What I find obscene is the creation of sensationalist headlines and manipulation of such figures purely to try to make a political point. But then again, why would I expect any better behaviour from politically motivated miscreants? True The Financial Times compared the total number of deaths so far this year with previous years - to get an idea of the true number of deaths - including those told to go home and die, and including the extra Non Covid19related deaths caused by those not getting medical care because of Covid19. They found it about double the Government's figures - which were already the highest in Europe Kier Starmers asked BoJo 'How did we get here' But of course he didn't answer the question - just like his supporters on here. So Starmer is ignoring where the pandemic came from too 8-) ......... We all know the pandemic did not come from BoJo - he probably spread it around by shaking hands, after failing to keep it out by test and quarantine at the borders he had taken back control of, failing to order PPE before other countries snapped all the proper kit up, failing to lockdown before the virus was established etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-07 8:35 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-06 10:06 PM John52 - 2020-05-06 9:47 PM Tracker - 2020-05-05 7:05 PM What I find obscene is the creation of sensationalist headlines and manipulation of such figures purely to try to make a political point. But then again, why would I expect any better behaviour from politically motivated miscreants? True The Financial Times compared the total number of deaths so far this year with previous years - to get an idea of the true number of deaths - including those told to go home and die, and including the extra Non Covid19related deaths caused by those not getting medical care because of Covid19. They found it about double the Government's figures - which were already the highest in Europe Kier Starmers asked BoJo 'How did we get here' But of course he didn't answer the question - just like his supporters on here. So Starmer is ignoring where the pandemic came from too 8-) ......... We all know the pandemic did not come from BoJo - he just spread it be going round shaking hands, failing to test and quarantine at the borders he had taken back control of, failing to order PPE before other countries snapped all the proper kit up, failing to lockdown before the virus was established etc etc So Boris gave everyone Chinky Flu? 8-) .......... Any proof that other countries snapped up all the proper PPE? ;-) ......... I know Germany banned export of theirs >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-07 8:39 AM So Boris gave everyone Chinky Flu? 8-) .......... What is Chinky Flu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-07 8:45 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-07 8:39 AM So Boris gave everyone Chinky Flu? 8-) .......... What is Chinky Flu? Its a virus that started in China and has killed 252,420 people so far :-| ......... But for folk like you its an opportunity to bash Boris *-) .......... Kinda shows just how unsavory you Losers are 8-) ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-07 8:49 AM Its a virus that started in China and has killed 252,420 people so far :-| ........ . That is not flu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-06 9:47 PM Tracker - 2020-05-05 7:05 PM What I find obscene is the creation of sensationalist headlines and manipulation of such figures purely to try to make a political point. But then again, why would I expect any better behaviour from politically motivated miscreants? True The Financial Times compared the total number of deaths so far this year with previous years - to get an idea of the true number of deaths - including those told to go home and die, and including the extra Non Covid19related deaths caused by those not getting medical care because of Covid19. They found it about double the Government's figures - which were already the highest in Europe Kier Starmers asked BoJo 'How did we get here' But of course he didn't answer the question - just like his supporters on here. As if that isn't enough - now more proof of deaths the Government is not counting - https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/08/more-people-dying-at-home-during-covid-19-pandemic-uk-analysis Those told not to call 111 (let alone 999) if they have coronovirus symptoms - just go home and die so you don't trouble the nhs and your death won't be counted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 9, 2020 Share Posted May 9, 2020 John52 - 2020-05-07 8:58 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-07 8:49 AM Its a virus that started in China and has killed 252,420 people so far :-| ........ . That is not flu Still refusing to condem your Commie chums *-) .......... I reckon I've sussed out why you live alone in a white van.......in Cornwall ;-) ......... Your Pissindoon neighbours have had enough of you (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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