veletron Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Hi There is alot of conflicting information re the correct gearbox oil for the ducato so wondered what others had put in. I bought Tutela Geartech SAE 75-85W GL4 as it was the recommended oil on two separate sites: https://www.fiatworkshop.co.uk/parts/Ducato_2014_-_2018_Gearbox_Oil.shtml and shop4parts After draining, I added 2.9L via the gearbox breather (long pipe and funnel required) Now wondering whether I have used the correct oil as seen Tutela Matryx and Experya also mentioned! I read various comments about not using a GL4+ or GL5 oil as it messes with the synchros. Any advice from others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 Looking at my maintenance record, I used Matryx 75W85 GL4 when I changed the gearbox oil back in 2020. I found a noticeable improvement in gear changes as a result. I saved the following from a post on this forum several years ago, which I admit influenced my decision. I can't find the original post now, maybe Derek might be able to? "The recommended oil is Tutela Experya SAE 75W-85 GL-4. The GL4 rating is important, other grades can compromise the syncro rings. On the 6 speed gearbox the listed quantity is 2.7 l, however the last new boxes I have fitted are engraved fill 2.9 l. There is an alternative fully synthetic oil, Tutela Matryx SAE 75W-85 GL-4 that I have used in this box with good results." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 The manuals for that approximate year are a bit more revealing (though 2014/15 crossover can be a bit of a pain) if you look at the page with the filling volumes. The MLGU gearbox (fitted AFAIK to most manual models below the 180 up to 2015) specifies 2.7 litres of TUTELA TRANSMISSION EXPERYA. At just after that time, the Euro6 150 also gained (for torque reasons, not power) the M38/40 gearbox used in the 180 (and, I think, Comfortmatic). That is specified as 2.9 litres of TUTELA TRANSMISSION GEARTECH. I can't remember which engine you have, and am certainly not sure what difference the different specs will make, but that appears to be the (FIAT) documented position. The Petronas site, however, appears to recommend Experya across the board (engines and years). You pays your money...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 The manual for my 2018 150 (M40 box) states Transmission Experya 75W. I changed to Tutela Matryx 75w85 at 15k miles as we had a very slight but annoying 6th gear meshing whine in a very limited speed range (55-62ish) when very hot and only noticeable on smooth European roads. I couldn't even demonstrate the noise to Fiat Pro in the UK as it was never warm enough and it would have been inaudible over UK road rumble anyway. The higher viscosity at higher temps. of the Matryx has sorted it out nicely with no ill effects. Plus it's a nice bright red colour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 (edited) Hi Veletron I see in the past (April 13, 2017) you had a similar issue with your oil grade for your engine .Why not also contact Fiat Technical Information Services with your Gearbox data (M40?) and get a definitive answer from them and any other data you may think you may need It may help to put your mind at ease if your are unsure Re:- the conflicting information you have of the oil spec' for your specific gearbox of that year Regards Edited March 24 by onecal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted March 24 Share Posted March 24 41 minutes ago, Steve928 said: The manual for my 2018 150 (M40 box) states Transmission Experya 75W. Mine's the same, but the manual definitely says Geartech (and Experya for the MLGU box). Confusing, isn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Looking at the data sheets for Matryx and Geartech they are well nigh indistinguishable in viscosity terms. Experya, if Fiat's first/factory fill oil, would appear to be at the thinner end of those in discussion. But if an MLGU6 leaves the factory in a PSA-badged vehicle then it would seem that its first fill would be Totale Traxium Gear 8, which sits somewhere between Experya and Matryx/Geartech. I used Traxium when I changed my Boxer's MLGU6 oil a few years back. I recall using Tutela ZC Synth 75w-85 in a previous van's MLGU - perhaps that was on offer at the time.. My own view is that's it's really not that critical (unlike engine oils) and any of the above do the job as long as they perform OK (gear shifting etc.) in the conditions in which you use the vehicle. And then of course there is the oft-discussed topic of whether the refill quantity should be 2.7 litres because 200ml doesn't drain from the box - I'm not sure that has ever been resolved, or ever will be. I opt for putting back the same quantity that I get out, in the belief (perhaps over-optimistic) that Sevel will have filled it correctly in the first instance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Hi Hopefully Fiat Technical Information Services will put "veletron" mind at ease Regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) 3 hours ago, onecal said: Hi Hopefully Fiat Technical Information Services will put "veletron" mind at ease Regards Out of interest "onecal", how does one contact Fiat Technical Information Services? Google doesn't seem to recognize the name and the closest match I can find (Stellantis/Mopar's Technical Help Desk) is a subscription service, amongst other usage restrictions. TIA. Edited March 25 by Steve928 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Hi Contact Fiat themselves. I am sure they will help as any good organisation that are selling their products would? Regards 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve928 Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Wow, thanks. Duly filed in File 13. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 (edited) Hi Again , any good organisation should do ? It should indeed put the OP mind at ease and cut out all the guesswork , on coming from the manufacturer of the product Sorry am am not at home at the moment so no access to workshop data Regards Edited March 25 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 On 24/03/2024 at 13:51, Deneb said: Looking at my maintenance record, I used Matryx 75W85 GL4 when I changed the gearbox oil back in 2020. I found a noticeable improvement in gear changes as a result. I saved the following from a post on this forum several years ago, which I admit influenced my decision. I can't find the original post now, maybe Derek might be able to? "The recommended oil is Tutela Experya SAE 75W-85 GL-4. The GL4 rating is important, other grades can compromise the syncro rings. On the 6 speed gearbox the listed quantity is 2.7 l, however the last new boxes I have fitted are engraved fill 2.9 l. There is an alternative fully synthetic oil, Tutela Matryx SAE 75W-85 GL-4 that I have used in this box with good results." The forum thread (2016) you quoted from would have been this one: https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/39359-x250-gearbox-oil/ and the April 13, 2017 thread mentioned by onecal above was this one. https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/41062-engine-oil-x290-2015-euro-5-ducato/ This 2015 forum thread https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/topic/35820-fiat-ducato-x290-wheel-bolt-torque/ describes my own experience of obtaining information from Fiat Customer Service. Although I eventually obtained an answer, I was never confident it was correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veletron Posted March 25 Author Share Posted March 25 Thanks all. Having tried to contact fiat technical and get a sensible answer to questions in the past, its simply not worth the time or effort. I guess what I have put in is fine, but I did also see the comments re Matryx. Maybe i'll replace with Matryx when I return from latest trip. I'll also measure how much came out as I put 2.9L back in. As for the engine I have been using Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO C-2 5W30 for sometime now without issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 25 Share Posted March 25 Hi I find it a little bizarre you are looking for such important information on forums and as you say, and you do not find it worth your time or effort to contact the manufactures of the product because of the way they have dealt with you in the past. That in itself does not say a lot for the aftersales service of indeed of any company. As you say you were unable to get a satisfactory answer to your question to very important service data. I find that unacceptable. I really don't think I would be purchasing that product again indeed if I was treated in that manner. Kind regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 16 hours ago, Steve928 said: Out of interest "onecal", how does one contact Fiat Technical Information Services? Google doesn't seem to recognize the name and the closest match I can find (Stellantis/Mopar's Technical Help Desk) is a subscription service, amongst other usage restrictions. TIA. Fair question An answer would be helpful onecal Better still, why don't you try it yourself and let us know how you get on? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 10 hours ago, veletron said: As for the engine I have been using Fuchs TITAN GT1 PRO C-2 5W30 for sometime now without issues. Me also. I had a "light service" at a Fiat Pro dealer at 2 years, as the van had a third year warranty, so I submitted it to get the book stamped. The FP dealer used Iveco oil. I have been using Fuchs ever since, changed annually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Veletron's motorhome is based on a Fiat Ducato X290 panel-van with the 130PS 2.3litre Multijet motor and manual transmission. It was purchased in June 2015 and is a Campereve Magellan 643 (equivalent to Rapido's V55 model). On the ELUM website, a Ducato Manual with a publication-date of May 2015 provides the following information about transmission lubricants. This matches what Robinhood said earlier and implies that the 'correct' oil for Veletron's gearbox would be the EXPERYA variant. In principle then, the GEARTECH oil would be 'wrong' for the 130 Multijet's gearbox, but whether using it instead of EXPERYA (or - as Veletron did - putting in 2.9 litres instead of 2.7 litres) would be harmful is anybody's guess. As the contemporary Ducato manual seems clear enough about which oil is advised for the gearbox of Veletron's campervan, I can see little point contacting Fiat about this. Veletron's original enquiry is the type of complex question that is best discussed on a forum that has members with technical experience and expertise who are prepared to spend time focussing on the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 Hi again I find it a little bizarre you are looking for such important information on forums and as you say, and you do not find it worth your time or effort to contact the manufactures of the product because of the way they have dealt with you in the past. That in itself does not say a lot for the aftersales service of indeed of any company. As you say you were unable to get a satisfactory answer to your question to very important service data. I find that unacceptable. I really don't think I would be purchasing that product again indeed if I was treated in that manner. Kind regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 onecal What is the point in repeating exactly the same post you made 13 hours ago? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 (edited) Hi It looks it may have been misread, I think it is quite alarming that if the manufacture of a product is portrayed as unable or indeed unwilling to give an answer to such a serious question as some posters post on this form, give the impression they may be actually uncontactable.??? What does that say about after service of the product, especially as portrayed on the forum here they are unable to answer those questions and may be actually uncontactable?. Why would anyone buy such a product with no back up ? The purchasers of such products are then just left to just answers alone on forums, be the information be correct or incorrect Edited March 26 by onecal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 3 hours ago, onecal said: It looks it may have been misread... No, @veletron has not been back since her posting two hours before yours so give her time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 A recent Trustpilot review... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onecal Posted March 26 Share Posted March 26 So Derek What are we to take from your posts , that they are that bad and not worth contacting ? The actual manufacture of the product? This is why I posted the following I think it is quite alarming that if the manufacture of a product is portrayed as unable or indeed unwilling to give an answer to such a serious question as some posters post on this form, give the impression they may be actually uncontactable.??? What does that say about after service of the product, especially as portrayed on the forum here they are unable to answer those questions and may be actually uncontactable?. Why would anyone buy such a product with no back up ? The purchasers of such products are then just left to just answers alone on forums, be the information be correct or incorrect Regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 27 Share Posted March 27 11 hours ago, onecal said: So Derek What are we to take from your posts , that they are that bad and not worth contacting ? I could equally ask "Why do you keep repeating exactly the same thing, when once is plenty adequate?" It's not known what Ducato-related technical specification question David Young asked Fiat and that led to the 1-star Trustpilot review I referenced, but my own view (and clearly that of other technically-literate forum members) is that - with so much information available on-line - contacting 'customer services' for technical advice/information will be a last-resort action and rarely worth the effort. What do you suggest Veletron should say to Fiat? "I've put 2.9 litres of oil my Ducato's gearbox when the Owner Handbook says 2.7 litres and used a different TUTELA oil to the original. Is that going to be OK?" Do you seriously believe that would be productive or would Fiat just say RTFM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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