Bulletguy Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 Oh for Gods sake i'm beginning to think it's about time the green van and men in white coats moved in on Downing street! British born Kyle Herbert, a 22 year old who has lived in Shrewsbury his entire life, never held a passport and never set foot outside the UK, was sent a letter in 2015 stating he had 'no lawful basis' to be in the UK and would be deported to Uganda! *-) He was ordered to leave the country or risk a £5,000 fine, imprisonment and removal by force. His employer had to suspend him. The HO claim they wrote and said it was an error and apologised but Mr Herbert says' he's only had a verbal confirmation. This was under Mad May's tenure as Home Secretary. *-) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/exclusive-briton-who-has-never-left-the-uk-is-ordered-to-move-to-uganda-by-bungling-home-office-bosses-despite-being-born-in-shrewsbury/ar-AAwA0sm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 1, 2018 Author Share Posted May 1, 2018 Meantime the sheer insane madness, crass stupidity and brutality just carries on.......business as usual. :-( Yvonne Smith a 64 year old grandmother, banged up in a detention centre for the past nine months pending deportation...suddenly told "you're released" yesterday. A reporter from Channel 4 news met her outside and drove her back to her home in Birmingham......but....her ordeal was far from over. The new Home Sec has a LOT of very serious work to address....immediately. And it's now time May was held to account. Send her to Yarl's Wood, strip her of UK citizenship and deport her. https://www.channel4.com/news/grandmother-child-of-the-windrush-told-she-cant-stay-in-uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Labour calls Commons vote to force ministers to release secret government documents on Windrush scandal The party will force a House of Commons vote on Wednesday in a bid to compel ministers to hand over internal correspondence revealing what they knew about the problems being faced by Windrush immigrants, and how they responded. The same technique was used by Labour to successfully force the government to give parliament access to 58 Brexit economic assessments that ministers had previously fought to keep private. It also asks for papers relating to Downing Street’s refusal to meet with Caribbean heads of state to discuss the issue – a decision that ignited the row that has engulfed the government in recent weeks – and all documents concerning the government’s Immigration Implementation Taskforce. This is excellent news and not before time too. A step closer to Mays head on a plate. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-windrush-vote-documents-secret-theresa-may-david-lammy-diane-abbott-a8331361.html 200 MPs tell Theresa May to enshrine promises in law More than 200 MPs have written to Theresa May urging her to enshrine promises made to Windrush generation migrants in law, keeping the pressure on the prime minister as she fights to contain the crisis. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/29/windrush-crisis-mps-theresa-may-enshrine-promises-law From the Home Office to No 10, Theresa May has entrenched racial inequality he departure of Amber Rudd over the Windrush scandal should also mean the end of the government’s “hostile environment”, a baton the former home secretary picked up from her predecessor – and the architect of the policy – Theresa May. But this is something that is not just confined to the Home Office. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/01/windrush-injustice-minorities-basic-tory-instinct-may-hostile-environment Poll: Britons blame May more than Rudd for Windrush scandal An opinion poll shows 34% of those polled hold May more responsible for Windrush than Rudd, who polled just 4%. I agree. https://news.sky.com/story/poll-britons-blame-may-more-than-rudd-for-windrush-scandal-11354001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Paul, Your penultimate link has a further link to the debate on the second reading of the Immigration Bill in October 2013. It makes very interesting reading if you have not read it. Although in the article reference is made to the opposition to the Bill expressed by Diane Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell (which if checked takes you to the debate in parliament) by far the best contributions to the debate come from Sarah Teather (Lib Dem) and Fiona Mactaggart (now ex-Lab member for Slough) and they are worth a read. Takes a bit of scrolling down to get to them. Certainly has given me more food for thought on the wisdom, or lack of it, in relation to some of the measures introduced that go beyond the effects on the Windrush generation. I had thought that the landlord checks were daft because that just gave rogue landlords to charge more for substandard accommodation. I'm ashamed to say it never occured to me that when faced with the choice between a black or a white tenant and some doubt as to the entitlement of each to remain in the UK what the obvious decision was likely to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-05-02 9:36 AM......................I'm ashamed to say it never occured to me that when faced with the choice between a black or a white tenant and some doubt as to the entitlement of each to remain in the UK what the obvious decision was likely to be. Dogs, blacks, and Irish? Plus ça change? Blessed are the bigoted, they will always be with us. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-05-02 9:36 AM Paul, Your penultimate link has a further link to the debate on the second reading of the Immigration Bill in October 2013. It makes very interesting reading if you have not read it. Although in the article reference is made to the opposition to the Bill expressed by Diane Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell (which if checked takes you to the debate in parliament) by far the best contributions to the debate come from Sarah Teather (Lib Dem) and Fiona Mactaggart (now ex-Lab member for Slough) and they are worth a read. Takes a bit of scrolling down to get to them. Certainly has given me more food for thought on the wisdom, or lack of it, in relation to some of the measures introduced that go beyond the effects on the Windrush generation. .................... Thanks for drawing attention to those further links, Veronica. I've now had a chance to read more of that "theyworkforyou" transcript of (I assume) Hansard on that 2013 debate. Good, logical, sensible, arguments put forward in parliament against certain provisions of the bill. Ignored. The whole bill seems to have passed into law largely, or totally, unamended. One has to ask what MP's are for, if all they do is bow before the party whips and line up like sheep to rubber stamp government policy, however poorly thought out. With all due respect to our resident opposing party political keyboard warriors, this is exactly what brings parliament into disrepute. Blind and unthinking adherence to the "party line" with brains parked in the entrance lobby. The intention of debates on bills is that they give government a chance to improve their ideas, by making amendments to meet reasonable objections. Instead, what we get appears to be the supposition that any opposition objections are pure political posturing (which, regrettably, in some cases they are) and can merely be brushed aside on that ground. This "win at all costs mentality" merely dumps the cost of correcting avoidable errors onto the rest of us, who end up paying substantially more to rectify the avoidable than we would have if the objections been reasonably met when first pointed out. Too many parliamentary debates seem quickly to degenerate into points scoring "yah boo sucks" tribal politics, as so capably exemplified on here - at interminable and unenlightening length - by the aforementioned party political keyboard warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-05-02 9:36 AM Paul, Your penultimate link has a further link to the debate on the second reading of the Immigration Bill in October 2013. It makes very interesting reading if you have not read it. Although in the article reference is made to the opposition to the Bill expressed by Diane Abbott, Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell (which if checked takes you to the debate in parliament) by far the best contributions to the debate come from Sarah Teather (Lib Dem) and Fiona Mactaggart (now ex-Lab member for Slough) and they are worth a read. Takes a bit of scrolling down to get to them. Certainly has given me more food for thought on the wisdom, or lack of it, in relation to some of the measures introduced that go beyond the effects on the Windrush generation. I had thought that the landlord checks were daft because that just gave rogue landlords to charge more for substandard accommodation. I'm ashamed to say it never occured to me that when faced with the choice between a black or a white tenant and some doubt as to the entitlement of each to remain in the UK what the obvious decision was likely to be. I looked on the link you refer to but can't see which link on the page you specifically mean as the only ones showing are six links under heading "More from Amber Rudd". So which one is it? :-S What were your thoughts on the C4 clip with the reporter who met 64 year old Yvonne Smith, banged up in Yarl's Wood for nine months, threatened with deportation. The reporter raised what to me was a very important point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Full Hansard report from 30th April debate in Hoc brought about after this petition; https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/216539 Hansard Report; https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2018-04-30/debates/CEC6AAFF-E02D-41DA-B681-AF9713BE6F82/MinorsEnteringTheUK1948To1971 I also have a link to a Research Briefings summary but can't 'get' to it....the site seems overloaded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Brian your observations are most pertinent. In that debate in the link it seemed to me that Fiona MacT and Ms Teather were the least guilty of political point scoring . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Currently debating Windrush now in HoC http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-43951972 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Not Windrush specific but yet another hash up being excused as 'a mistake'. *-) The government may have mistakenly deported more than 7,000 foreign students after falsely accusing them of cheating in English language tests. Most of the students were not allowed to appeal the Home Office decision; nor were they able to obtain evidence against them, or given the opportunity to prove their proficiency in English Some were detained by immigration officials, lost their jobs, and left homeless as a result, despite being in the UK legally, the Financial Times reported. The students’ treatment has been blamed on the “hostile environment” policy introduced by Theresa May during her time as home secretary. The approach, which aims to push illegal immigrants to leave Britain by making their lives difficult, led to the Windrush scandal. Disgusting. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/home-office-mistakenly-deported-thousands-foreign-students-cheating-language-tests-theresa-may-a8331906.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Sorry Paul the link to which I was referring can be reached by clicking on the highlighted reference to Diane Abbott, John McDonell and Jeremy Corbyn in the article in your penultimate link. Their contributions to the debate were mentioned but in my view they were not the best. Diane Abbott was however on reasonable form. A form which sadly seems to have declined somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 With the perception people had / have that illegal immigration has got out of hand over many years it's not really surprising that politicians felt the need to create a ' hostile ' environment for illegal immigrants. The trouble is that, as is so often the case, we end up with a disaster because of the way a policy was implemented. The aim should have been to reduce illegal immigration but without adding target numbers. ' Targets ' are o.k. if you are selling cars - but shouldn't be applied to people. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Have just viewed the video Paul. I don't understand why she was detained at all or how her detention for 9 months could be viewed as lawful. Quite apart from how distressing her situation and that of her father is/was and it clearly is most dreadful, from my reading of the law relating to immigration detention there would have to be a risk that she would fail to report to Immigration otherwise she would have to be released pending consideration of any claim she had made to have a right to British citizenship or any other claim she had to right to remain on different grounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 malc d - 2018-05-02 4:09 PM With the perception people had / have that illegal immigration has got out of hand over many years it's not really surprising that politicians felt the need to create a ' hostile ' environment for illegal immigrants. The trouble is that, as is so often the case, we end up with a disaster because of the way a policy was implemented. The aim should have been to reduce illegal immigration but without adding target numbers. ' Targets ' are o.k. if you are selling cars - but shouldn't be applied to people. :-| In one sense I am inclined to agree with you Malc but in another I perceive that it is not imposition of targets for removal of illegal migrants that has led to the enormous injustice now exposed by the “Windrush” type cases but the limits to the exercise of discretion of decision makers, the over-prescriptive criteria that they were obliged to apply and delays in the consideration of individual cases that is most responsible for the debacle. In sum, as usual, it all comes down to £’s shillings and pence. A robust and fair system can’t be had on the cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 malc d - 2018-05-02 4:09 PM With the perception people had / have that illegal immigration has got out of hand over many years it's not really surprising that politicians felt the need to create a ' hostile ' environment for illegal immigrants. The trouble is that, as is so often the case, we end up with a disaster because of the way a policy was implemented. The aim should have been to reduce illegal immigration but without adding target numbers. 'Targets' are o.k. if you are selling cars - but shouldn't be applied to people. :-| I couldn't agree more Malc. It was destined to fail from Mays mad obsession and creation of her 'hostile environment' and the warnings were there even back then. Corbyn warned about it, the Law Society warned....but it went unheeded so now we are seeing the result of ignorance. You know there is something seriously wrong with 'a system' that sends letters out to British citizens informing they have no legal right to be here and will be carted off to detention centres and deported......even a British lad who had never held a passport, never been out of the UK, and told by the HO he was going to be deported to Uganda fgs! The woman is crazed sociopath. Violet1956 - 2018-05-02 4:14 PM Have just viewed the video Paul. I don't understand why she was detained at all or how her detention for 9 months could be viewed as lawful. Quite apart from how distressing her situation and that of her father is/was and it clearly is most dreadful, from my reading of the law relating to immigration detention there would have to be a risk that she would fail to report to Immigration otherwise she would have to be released pending consideration of any claim she had made to have a right to British citizenship or any other claim she had to right to remain on different grounds. As with many other Windrush cases it wasn't ever lawful and this is where May is going to have to be held to account. Imprisonment of citizens without due process is as far as i'm aware an illegal act. This Government has behaved in the most despicable and appalling manner and i never believed i would see this in UK. It's unforgivable. Damages will eventually be paid though sadly by the time settlements are reached it will be too late for some as they will be dead. But the money for compensations, which is going to be massive, will come from the tax payer.......which means all those wrongfully and illegally detained/deported will contribute to their own compensation. The ultimate insult. I'm not happy about that. May is worth a few million so we can make that a start point by stripping her of her finances first. There's also quite a few million sloshing around in that rotten Cabinet of hers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 2, 2018 Author Share Posted May 2, 2018 Tories have blocked the bid to release all documents over Windrush in the HoC this afternoon proving they are hiding the facts and don't want the truth to come out. That pretty much confirms May's complicity and this will come back to haunt them. It won't go away. The Tories mounted a three line whip to keep May's nasty secrets hidden. I'm hardly surprised the Tories were desperate to hide their own mess but they've just made themselves look as guilty as hell. Utterly shameful. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/westminster-live-updates-labour-windrush-brexit-theresa-may-customes-union-tory-party-a8332041.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-05-01 9:56 PM Oh for Gods sake i'm beginning to think it's about time the green van and men in white coats moved in on Downing street! British born Kyle Herbert, a 22 year old who has lived in Shrewsbury his entire life, never held a passport and never set foot outside the UK, was sent a letter in 2015 stating he had 'no lawful basis' to be in the UK and would be deported to Uganda! *-) He was ordered to leave the country or risk a £5,000 fine, imprisonment and removal by force. His employer had to suspend him. The HO claim they wrote and said it was an error and apologised but Mr Herbert says' he's only had a verbal confirmation. This was under Mad May's tenure as Home Secretary. *-) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/exclusive-briton-who-has-never-left-the-uk-is-ordered-to-move-to-uganda-by-bungling-home-office-bosses-despite-being-born-in-shrewsbury/ar-AAwA0sm So that's Mrs May's fault and not some brain dead civil servant numpty? *-) .......... Or maybe the civil servant is a Labour supporter trying to cause maximum damage to the Tories? >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-03 9:34 AM Bulletguy - 2018-05-01 9:56 PM Oh for Gods sake i'm beginning to think it's about time the green van and men in white coats moved in on Downing street! British born Kyle Herbert, a 22 year old who has lived in Shrewsbury his entire life, never held a passport and never set foot outside the UK, was sent a letter in 2015 stating he had 'no lawful basis' to be in the UK and would be deported to Uganda! *-) He was ordered to leave the country or risk a £5,000 fine, imprisonment and removal by force. His employer had to suspend him. The HO claim they wrote and said it was an error and apologised but Mr Herbert says' he's only had a verbal confirmation. This was under Mad May's tenure as Home Secretary. *-) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/exclusive-briton-who-has-never-left-the-uk-is-ordered-to-move-to-uganda-by-bungling-home-office-bosses-despite-being-born-in-shrewsbury/ar-AAwA0sm So that's Mrs May's fault and not some brain dead civil servant numpty? *-) .......... Yes. His letter of deportation was sent out by the HO in 2015 under May's tenure as Home Sec and her "hostile environment". When in opposition she was very vocal about "ministers who don't know what's going on in their own departments..... "departments who deny the truth and have to have it dragged out of them.... and "finds it extraordinary that a minister couldn't step up to the plate and take responsibility". That's what May said back in 2004. Fourteen years on and she refuses to practice what she preached which shows the hypocrisy of the woman who yesterday fought to keep the history of her evil deeds hidden. Shame on Javid for falling at the first hurdle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-05-03 3:00 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-03 9:34 AM Bulletguy - 2018-05-01 9:56 PM Oh for Gods sake i'm beginning to think it's about time the green van and men in white coats moved in on Downing street! British born Kyle Herbert, a 22 year old who has lived in Shrewsbury his entire life, never held a passport and never set foot outside the UK, was sent a letter in 2015 stating he had 'no lawful basis' to be in the UK and would be deported to Uganda! *-) He was ordered to leave the country or risk a £5,000 fine, imprisonment and removal by force. His employer had to suspend him. The HO claim they wrote and said it was an error and apologised but Mr Herbert says' he's only had a verbal confirmation. This was under Mad May's tenure as Home Secretary. *-) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/exclusive-briton-who-has-never-left-the-uk-is-ordered-to-move-to-uganda-by-bungling-home-office-bosses-despite-being-born-in-shrewsbury/ar-AAwA0sm So that's Mrs May's fault and not some brain dead civil servant numpty? *-) .......... Yes. His letter of deportation was sent out by the HO in 2015 under May's tenure as Home Sec and her "hostile environment". When in opposition she was very vocal about "ministers who don't know what's going on in their own departments..... "departments who deny the truth and have to have it dragged out of them.... and "finds it extraordinary that a minister couldn't step up to the plate and take responsibility". That's what May said back in 2004. Fourteen years on and she refuses to practice what she preached which shows the hypocrisy of the woman who yesterday fought to keep the history of her evil deeds hidden. Shame on Javid for falling at the first hurdle. So Labour ministers fell on their sword every time they cocked up did they??? *-) ......... Yeah like hell they did (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-03 3:26 PM Bulletguy - 2018-05-03 3:00 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-03 9:34 AM Bulletguy - 2018-05-01 9:56 PM Oh for Gods sake i'm beginning to think it's about time the green van and men in white coats moved in on Downing street! British born Kyle Herbert, a 22 year old who has lived in Shrewsbury his entire life, never held a passport and never set foot outside the UK, was sent a letter in 2015 stating he had 'no lawful basis' to be in the UK and would be deported to Uganda! *-) He was ordered to leave the country or risk a £5,000 fine, imprisonment and removal by force. His employer had to suspend him. The HO claim they wrote and said it was an error and apologised but Mr Herbert says' he's only had a verbal confirmation. This was under Mad May's tenure as Home Secretary. *-) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/exclusive-briton-who-has-never-left-the-uk-is-ordered-to-move-to-uganda-by-bungling-home-office-bosses-despite-being-born-in-shrewsbury/ar-AAwA0sm So that's Mrs May's fault and not some brain dead civil servant numpty? *-) .......... Yes. His letter of deportation was sent out by the HO in 2015 under May's tenure as Home Sec and her "hostile environment". When in opposition she was very vocal about "ministers who don't know what's going on in their own departments..... "departments who deny the truth and have to have it dragged out of them.... and "finds it extraordinary that a minister couldn't step up to the plate and take responsibility". That's what May said back in 2004. Fourteen years on and she refuses to practice what she preached which shows the hypocrisy of the woman who yesterday fought to keep the history of her evil deeds hidden. Shame on Javid for falling at the first hurdle. So Labour ministers fell on their sword every time they cocked up did they??? *-) ......... Yeah like hell they did (lol) (lol) (lol) ........ Yes had you actually bothered to research a little you'd have found Beverley Hughes did resign. Now it's May's turn to fall on her sword. https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/theresa-may-branded-hypocrite-after-old-footage-of-pm-demanding-labour-ministers-resignation-emerges_uk_5ad8a401e4b0e4d0715defe8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Afghan interpreters who worked with UK Armed Forces under threat of deportation Utterly disgraceful. More than 150 interpreters who served on the front line in Helmand Province were granted sanctuary in the UK in 2012 under a five-year visa set to expire next year. They have now been told they need to pay £2,389 if they wish to be granted the indefinite right to remain in the UK. Defence Secretary has said the HO should waive the fees. Damn right they should. Your call Mr Javid....and let's hear it loud and clear. May heads a despicable nasty government ceaseless in it's ethnic cleansing of Little England. Time she went. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-army-afghan-interpreters-uk-stay-defence-secretary-gavin-williamson-a8335081.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 The Home Office’s dirty secret: a whole new generation of Windrushers Young people born or raised in the UK are being ensnared by Kafkaesque bureaucracy – and paying an extortionate price for it. Sajid Javid, has wasted no time in disowning the phrase “hostile environment”. But the real test he faces isn’t one of superficial terminology. First, there is the question of whether he will do anything to dismantle the day-to-day reality of prejudice that ensnared the Windrush generation with such appalling consequences; whether he will concede that obliging landlords to check people’s papers under the threat of fines or imprisonment drags us backwards to a world where people with dark skin routinely face discrimination. But there’s another dirty secret buried in the Home Office. The government’s futile, arbitrary target to reduce net immigration to the tens of thousands means it is not just imposing further restrictions on who can come to the UK from abroad (no matter that the NHS is desperate for doctors). It is making it harder for people here legally, including those who’ve grown up here, to become permanently settled. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/may/02/home-office-new-generation-windrushers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 3, 2018 Author Share Posted May 3, 2018 Here is a proper politician telling it how it really is and doesn't mess around. Start clip at 15:09:30 https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/bca2680f-8ba9-4ae5-aecd-abfe1cc5cdc8?in=15%3A08%3A18&out=15%3A28%3A12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-05-03 10:25 PM Here is a proper politician telling it how it really is and doesn't mess around. Start clip at 15:09:30 https://parliamentlive.tv/event/index/bca2680f-8ba9-4ae5-aecd-abfe1cc5cdc8?in=15%3A08%3A18&out=15%3A28%3A12 I should give up Bullet ;-) ............It appears the electorate accept it was a cock up :D.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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