The Windrush Generation

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 8:22 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-04-25 12:13 AM

 

 

Channel 4 news screened a very good debate on Windrush last night. Well worth a listen.

 

 

Thanks for this Paul. I missed this last night and have watched the youtube video. I think it was a very unsatisfactory debate for a number of reasons.

 

I was hoping to learn something about the legal issues but Channel 4 didn’t get any of the lawyers who contributed to state what the issues were. There are noted experts in the UK such as a QC Laurie Fransman who is the author of a textbook almost 2” thick on Nationality law who could have been invited and asked to explain what the root of the problem is. What Mr Goodhart was trying to say made sense to me. The changes in the law had unintended consequences and terrible mistakes were made in some cases.

 

Whilst criticism of the government’s handling of this is due, the idea that was allowed to prevail in the debate was that the government adopted the new laws in 2014 to target black people which I think is nonsense. As Rees-Mogg said he was alerted to one case of an Australian in his constituency hence he knew nothing about the scale of it. There are potential problems for all Commonwealth citizens not only those from the Caribbean or former African/Asian countries.

 

One man said that an impact assessment about the introduction of the 2014 legislation was done and not signed off? If that is true that says a lot to me. What did it say, was it recognised that the people from the Windrush generation or other former Commonwealth citizens who were entitled to British citizenship but wouldn't have the documents to prove it would be adversely affected? If not why not? The scandal is that nothing was done about the cases as they emerged.

 

As the one of the speakers affected said, he’s baffled and lost with all of this and doesn’t feel reassured. It is a pity that Channel 4 didn’t get someone to explain the legal issues so he would not be baffled.

 

I’ve gone off Lammy big time. His emotive language, the whipping up fears that this has to do with racism in order to increase his popularity among his constituents is in my view using their pain for his gain. What was he doing for the constituents that came to him with these problems? Did he raise them in parliament if it was so obviously affecting a great number of people?

 

Veronica

It was on a pretty tight schedule and 'sandwiched' between the news so what was shown during C4 news which is 1hr long was edited down to include other national news. As you probably noticed the clip run time is 1hr 10mins so i assume is the full unedited version.

 

Regards the legal issues over the 2014/16 Immigration Act, which along with May's "hostile environment", was intended and aimed at EU/non EU migration.....not Windrush who at that time were unknown to most people here in UK. But there were certain aspects and clauses within the Act which raised alarm bells by those in the legal profession and even the Law Society expressed concern. There's an article here albeit by the Scottish Law Society but i've seen and read one from the Law Society online;

 

http://www.journalonline.co.uk/Magazine/61-7/1021987.aspx

 

May pretty much got the Immigration Act rushed through Parliament and just 17 MP's voted against it. Jeremy Corbyn was one MP who voted against the Act and tweeted this at the time warning about it "allowing to create stateless people". Prophetic words.

 

Yes i don't believe the Act was specifically designed with the intention of 'targeting black people'....as i said previously it's prime aim was EU/non-EU migrants.....it just happens that the majority of people from British Commonwealth countries who are British citizens, happen to be black. The detentions, loss of employment, stripped of all rights as British citizens should never have happened. It's brought disgrace and shame on the country which will forever be marked in history. Remember some of those people had fought for this country in the war. Others have given a lifetimes work and paid taxes. They only became 'unwanted' after May's Immigration Act. Prior to that they were 'useful' but many now are of pension age and that means money.

 

David Lammy's emotive language to me is understandable as the anger burns deep and not without good cause either. His voice is needed for those not being heard, those who have been ignored and told to 'go home'. Incidentally Lammy is a qualified Barrister and practised law before going into politics.

 

There are cases emerging daily and here is another about a 21-year-old man who was born and raised in Britain who has been told to leave the UK by the Home Office because he is not a British citizen.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/aug/29/joiner-shane-ridge-born-and-raised-in-britain-told-to-leave-home-office

 

A 32 year old British man born in London to German parents but cannot get a passport unless he takes a UK citizenship test because he cannot prove his mother was legally in the country when she gave birth. He's been told his birth certificate isn't enough.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/05/man-told-to-take-citizenship-test-despite-living-entire-life-in-uk

 

A 53 year old disabled British man held in immigration removal centre for the past four months.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/04/disabled-briton-held-immigration-removal-centre-four-months

 

The whole business is an utter shambles and now descended into chaos with Johnson calling for an amnesty for illegal immigrants. So rather than addressing the issue of legal citizens and questioning why they were ever slung into detention centres and deprived of their rights as British citizens....goes off on a tangent. No doubt expecting an illegal to prove they are actually illegal which should be interesting! But i suspect Johnson has an ulterior motive at work in his head here! After all it's estimated it could generate almost £4bn a year in tax.

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2018-04-25 3:08 PM

 

Yes i don't believe the Act was specifically designed with the intention of 'targeting black people'....as i said previously it's prime aim was EU/non-EU migrants.....

 

So basically a Cock Up ;-) .........

 

Unlike "LABOUR's" Blair who lied to Parliament to start a war *-) ........

 

A war that started the migrant crisis and the bonfire of Middle East states under the guise of democracy 8-) .........

 

Which kinda puts Mrs May cock up........ into perspective does it not? >:-) .......

 

 

[Violet1956]

I'll read your links when I have a moment Paul thanks for posting.

 

I know Lammy is/was a barrister that is why I expected him to be rather more reasoned in his contribution to the discussion on the programme Paul.

 

His constant interruptions of David Goodhart, the theatrical shaking of his head whenever Goodhart spoke and recourse to hyperbole seemed to me to be just showboating. As I mentioned earlier I wonder what he did for his constituents who were suffering as a result of this debacle and if it's been going on so long whether he has at any time raised the issue in parliament so that all politicians were aware of it?

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 5:25 PM

 

I know Lammy is/was a barrister that is why I expected him to be rather more reasoned in his contribution to the discussion on the programme Paul.

 

 

You mean like these two? ;-) ............

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5656137/Secret-porn-past-British-lawyer-twins-facing-three-years-Dubai-jail-insulting-Arabs.html

 

:D .......

 

 

[Violet1956]

First of all, I apologise for the length of the following. It is in reply to Paul’s post and I do not expect that anyone else would be interested in reading it.

 

The article in your first link Paul is a little out of date on the “deport first appeal later” issue as the Supreme Court subsequently ruled there was nothing wrong with that in principle but as the Home Office hadn’t set up any provision e.g. for appeals to be conducted by video link, so as to enable a deportee to be effectively “present” at any appeal, the process was unlawful.

 

The article also raises the intrusion into the lives of all people by the collection of data that would result from various measures in the legislation introduced in 2016. The government can collect as much data on me as it likes if it goes some way to solve the problem of illegal migration.

 

Jeremy Corbyn’s tweet was misleading as I believe I have said before. The government cannot make people stateless.

I have sympathy for the young man whose parents appear to have assumed he was a British citizen but the law is the law and the mistake his parents made can be rectified if he just makes the necessary application. So many people seem to think that just because you are born in the UK you acquire citizenship yet that hasn’t been the case for many years. The obvious problem being that had that continued we would have had even greater problems with illegal migration than we have now.

 

I have read the article in the Guardian about the detained disabled man, who has served a term of imprisonment (for GBH I notice, nice man eh?) and who is now awaiting deportation. I ask how come a person who was born in Bangor has been in detention for 4 months pending deportation and yet still can’t prove that he is a British citizen? He has lawyers working for him I presume they can help him with the obvious enquiries. They should be able to check the registers for births marriages and deaths showing who his parents were and where they were born. Did he go to school? Did he ever work? Has he lived in splendid isolation all of his life to the extent that he has no friends or relatives to turn to? He is disabled so where are his hospital or GP records including his NHS number? My GP records go back donkey’s years I and probably record the polio injection I had when I was 6.

 

I fear the Windrush debacle is going to result in the government backtracking on perfectly proper measures that they utterly failed to ensure did not disadvantage genuine people with a right to citizenship or a right of abode. On tonight’s news it has emerged that they were alerted to the problems that were likely to arise/ had arisen for some former citizens of the Commonwealth two years ago. That they did not take any appropriate measures to mitigate the effect of the new measures on these citizens is a disgrace. On that point that I might agree with Lammy, if only he had articulated that properly. Maybe, it is because these people were not deemed important enough to be deserving of special treatment. The suffering of those affected is clearly very grave. Let’s see them compensated and restored to the position they ought to have had from the outset. But beware, if ever there was a time to remember the old adage that hard cases make bad law this is it.

 

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 5:25 PM

 

I'll read your links when I have a moment Paul thanks for posting.

 

I know Lammy is/was a barrister that is why I expected him to be rather more reasoned in his contribution to the discussion on the programme Paul.

 

His constant interruptions of David Goodhart, the theatrical shaking of his head whenever Goodhart spoke and recourse to hyperbole seemed to me to be just showboating. As I mentioned earlier I wonder what he did for his constituents who were suffering as a result of this debacle and if it's been going on so long whether he has at any time raised the issue in parliament so that all politicians were aware of it?

In answer to your question i'd say undoubtedly a heck of a lot more than May or Rudd the latter of whom has even had her own brother publicly condemn her actions. Obviously no love lost there then!

 

In a Channel 4 news interview last week David Lammy said his office is receiving email from those already deported so he's obviously dealing with matters on a broader perspective rather than just his own constituents. After all as stateless citizens they haven't really got an MP. To add to this he's dealing with racist hate mail telling him to “be grateful we took you in as a black man” and to "go back to your country". Lammy was born in Britain but racists have never been the brightest bulbs in the box.

 

His speech in the HoC was blistering and for me said everything i felt.....possibly more. Look at it like this Veronica. As a schoolboy in my final school i had an excellent history master and learnt more through him than any other. We were taught about the Empire, Colonialism and Commonwealth countries etc. My uncle lived and worked in Ghana and the British West Indies for a number of years. His wife came from Trinidad which only gained independence from UK in the early 60s. So you can imagine when this broke in the news, i felt everything i'd learnt in history had been turned on it's head! Had my history master been lying to me in all those lessons i enjoyed? No he hadn't........i've been deceived by a conniving government.

 

Oh......i forgot to mention in that previous post. The latest news......the NHS is currently recruiting nursing staff from Jamaica!!!

 

Honestly you couldn't make it up if you tried!! Nothing like rubbing more salt in the wounds eh?

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/britain-leans-on-former-colonies-to-alleviate-nhs-crisis-amid-windrush-scandal

 

Nurses from Jamaica are to be targeted as potential recruits for the health service, the government has revealed, in its latest move to try and help mitigate the UK’s nursing recruitment crisis by looking overseas.

 

As reported by Nursing Times over the last 18 months, the UK has been hit by a severe nurse recruitment crisis, with trusts unable to find enough staff to fill vacant nursing posts.

 

https://www.nursingtimes.net/news/workforce/uk-government-does-deal-with-jamaica-to-recruit-nurses-for-nhs/7024177.article

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-to-establish-global-nursing-partnership-with-jamaica

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 6:48 PM

 

First of all, I apologise for the length of the following. It is in reply to Paul’s post and I do not expect that anyone else would be interested in reading it.

Will respond later as only just seen your post.....plus dinner and news beckons!

[Violet1956]

pelmetman - 2018-04-25 6:27 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 5:25 PM

 

I know Lammy is/was a barrister that is why I expected him to be rather more reasoned in his contribution to the discussion on the programme Paul.

 

 

You mean like these two? ;-) ............

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5656137/Secret-porn-past-British-lawyer-twins-facing-three-years-Dubai-jail-insulting-Arabs.html

 

:D .......

 

Good point Dave. A person's integrity/morality is never governed by their occupation or station in life. My point was that his arguments were not reasoned. Who knows whether he could have chosen a more lucrative occupation as a porn star (lol)

[Guest pelmetman]

Point of order ;-) ..........

 

How many people have been affected by this scandal? :-S .......10?.......10's of 10?.......a 100?......a 1000? :-S .......

 

Just curious......seeing how I cant find any numbers on the tinternet :-| ..........

 

 

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 6:48 PM

 

First of all, I apologise for the length of the following. It is in reply to Paul’s post and I do not expect that anyone else would be interested in reading it.

 

The article in your first link Paul is a little out of date on the “deport first appeal later” issue as the Supreme Court subsequently ruled there was nothing wrong with that in principle but as the Home Office hadn’t set up any provision e.g. for appeals to be conducted by video link, so as to enable a deportee to be effectively “present” at any appeal, the process was unlawful.

 

The article also raises the intrusion into the lives of all people by the collection of data that would result from various measures in the legislation introduced in 2016. The government can collect as much data on me as it likes if it goes some way to solve the problem of illegal migration.

 

Jeremy Corbyn’s tweet was misleading as I believe I have said before. The government cannot make people stateless.

I have sympathy for the young man whose parents appear to have assumed he was a British citizen but the law is the law and the mistake his parents made can be rectified if he just makes the necessary application. So many people seem to think that just because you are born in the UK you acquire citizenship yet that hasn’t been the case for many years. The obvious problem being that had that continued we would have had even greater problems with illegal migration than we have now.

 

I have read the article in the Guardian about the detained disabled man, who has served a term of imprisonment (for GBH I notice, nice man eh?) and who is now awaiting deportation. I ask how come a person who was born in Bangor has been in detention for 4 months pending deportation and yet still can’t prove that he is a British citizen? He has lawyers working for him I presume they can help him with the obvious enquiries. They should be able to check the registers for births marriages and deaths showing who his parents were and where they were born. Did he go to school? Did he ever work? Has he lived in splendid isolation all of his life to the extent that he has no friends or relatives to turn to? He is disabled so where are his hospital or GP records including his NHS number? My GP records go back donkey’s years I and probably record the polio injection I had when I was 6.

 

I fear the Windrush debacle is going to result in the government backtracking on perfectly proper measures that they utterly failed to ensure did not disadvantage genuine people with a right to citizenship or a right of abode. On tonight’s news it has emerged that they were alerted to the problems that were likely to arise/ had arisen for some former citizens of the Commonwealth two years ago. That they did not take any appropriate measures to mitigate the effect of the new measures on these citizens is a disgrace. On that point that I might agree with Lammy, if only he had articulated that properly. Maybe, it is because these people were not deemed important enough to be deserving of special treatment. The suffering of those affected is clearly very grave. Let’s see them compensated and restored to the position they ought to have had from the outset. But beware, if ever there was a time to remember the old adage that hard cases make bad law this is it.

Rather long reply but these cases are growing by the hour. Sorry Veronica but apart from the absolute mess May's Coalition of Chaos has plunged the country into, lets not lose sight of the fact we are talking about British citizens in all of these cases which i fear is all too easy to overlook in the mire and murk swirling around.

 

Effectively government have made them stateless in that whilst those affected had always been of the understanding they had British citizenship with the same entitlements as every other British citizen, government eroded that which put them where they are today.....a stateless limbo.

 

Corbyn was right in what he said as this was what it referenced to; https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/16/immigration-law-key-clause-protecting-windrush-immigrants-removed-in-2014

 

You previously asked about David Lammy dealing with any of his own constituents. His Twitter feed shows a number of cases he's been involved with. Here is one going back seven years;

 

and this is the case.....the HO said "not our fault....migrants should have sorted their status earlier". Maybe Green was too busy on the porn sites that day.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/25/damian-green-dismissed-windrush-citizenship-pleas

 

and another;

 

and still more;

 

Regards the letter from the HO telling them they are going to be kicked out, i picked up on a post on another forum where this entire debacle has been under much debate. I've copied the post for you to read;

 

At least he got the letter - my wife did not even get that - they just detained her when she went to sign at the Home Office. It took 14 months for us to get the Medical Tests, English tests and all the paperwork in order and then wait for the Home Office to make their decision. We also got the infamous emails saying the application was non-standard, the emails saying it was taking longer than expected before we got her visa. Thankfully she is now back in the UK.

 

I have had dealings in the past with Immigration so know how inept they can be. In short the left doesn't know what the right is doing.

 

I have no issue with deportation of a foreign citizen (not British) who has committed a crime and been duly tried and sentenced through due process as that is how our legal system works. However before deportation the majority of that sentence is expected to served in the country where the crime was committed, just as is applied to UK citizens committing crime overseas. If the person is British then he/she obviously serves their entire sentence here.

 

You asked about "registers for births marriages and deaths...school records....employment records...NI numbers etc" for ways of proof. Maybe you've missed some of the news reports but none of this has mattered one jot to either the HO or Immigration.....even when they have had that documentation. In many cases schools they attended ceased to exist long ago. I mentioned in my case two of the three schools i attended were demolished donkeys years ago and the third school only remains standing today due to it being a listed building......but that ceased to function as a school over 40 years ago so how on earth can anyone reasonably expect any of the Windrush people to dig out their documents??!!

 

Here is yet another case. A 58 year old grandmother, working for almost 40 years, paid taxes, now dismissed from her job after her employer asked for papers showing her right to remain.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/windrush-scandal-jessica-eugene-grandma-sacked-immigration-amber-rudd-a8322006.html

 

Back to what i mentioned earlier about 'stateless', May's madness knows no bounds and here is a case to prove it.......involving a former British high commissioner no less. *-)

 

A former British high commissioner whose baby son was initially denied a British passport after being born abroad, said it demonstrated a Home Office that defaults to refusal wherever possible.

 

Arthur Snell, who served as high commissioner to Trinidad and Tobago for four years, was left feeling “powerless and nervous in spite of my privileged position” after his newborn was refused citizenship in 2011.

 

He said he was forced to reapply, and for two months his son was in effect stateless as he was ineligible for Trinidadian citizenship.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/25/arthur-snell-high-commissioner-baby-denied-uk-passport-2011

 

Rudd appeared before the Home Affairs Select Committee today. She doesn't seem to know much about what her own department has been doing. When asked by the Chair of the committee if she (Rudd) had four papers to prove what she was doing in 1989 she deflected and skirted around that. She denied any problems had been caused by 'removal targets', 'hostile environment', or 'a culture of disbelief', yet her own damn staff contradict that as that's exactly what they were tasked with!! Glynn Williams, Director of Border Immigration doesn't think any removal targets exist. Doesn't think???

 

So either Rudd and Williams haven't a clue what goes on in their own departments, being economical with the truth, or simply lying to the committee.

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/labour-demands-government-changes-cruel-immigration-policy

 

Channel 4 news interviewed a man this evening who came to UK from Jamaica in 1968 and had served in the UK Armed Forces. His experience just defies belief. They also spoke with a lady from a charitable organisation.

https://www.channel4.com/news/vince-mcbean-on-windrush-politicians-look-at-immigration-as-way-of-getting-votes

 

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2018-04-25 7:07 PM

 

Point of order ;-) ..........

 

How many people have been affected by this scandal? :-S .......10?.......10's of 10?.......a 100?......a 1000? :-S Just curious......seeing how I cant find any numbers on the tinternet :-| ..........

Ask Rudd or May. They should know.......but they don't.

[Violet1956]

You will have to forgive me for it is too late for me to absorb everything you have said in your last post. I believe you and I are almost on the same page Paul. In no way do I seek to diminish the severe hardship and injustice that some people have experienced. I take some comfort from the fact that we are fortunate to live in a mature democracy in which the failings of any government are made public. That enables us to make informed and free choices about who should get our vote the next time around.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2018-04-25 10:52 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-04-25 7:07 PM

 

Point of order ;-) ..........

 

How many people have been affected by this scandal? :-S .......10?.......10's of 10?.......a 100?......a 1000? :-S Just curious......seeing how I cant find any numbers on the tinternet :-| ..........

Ask Rudd or May. They should know.......but they don't.

 

So as I thought ;-) ..........

 

It's just the usual Momentum molehill into mountain hysteria *-) .......

 

 

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

pelmetman - 2018-04-26 9:20 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-04-25 10:52 PM

 

pelmetman - 2018-04-25 7:07 PM

 

Point of order ;-) ..........

 

How many people have been affected by this scandal? :-S .......10?.......10's of 10?.......a 100?......a 1000? :-S Just curious......seeing how I cant find any numbers on the tinternet :-| ..........

Ask Rudd or May. They should know.......but they don't.

 

So as I thought ;-) ..........

 

It's just the usual Momentum molehill into mountain hysteria *-) .......

But, absence of evidence, is not evidence of absence. Stick around a bit! :-D

[malc d]

pelmetman - 2018-04-25 7:07 PM

 

Point of order ;-) ..........

 

How many people have been affected by this scandal? :-S .......10?.......10's of 10?.......a 100?......a 1000? :-S .......

 

Just curious......seeing how I cant find any numbers on the tinternet :-| ..........

 

 

 

 

 

Well about 500 arrived on the Windrush in 1948 but I doubt if any records have been kept on how many children they've had since.

 

:-|

[Violet1956]

I read in the paper today that 1300 “Windrush” type cases have been identified in the last week. It remains to be seen if all are genuine and hopefully the demands made for evidence by the Home Office will now be more reasonable. The culture of disbelief that has been allowed to reign in the Home Office has to change. It clearly resulted from the high number of people making false claims to be entitled to stay in the UK on a wide spectrum of bases. That said, the sins of the disingenuous shouldn’t be visited on the innocent. Let’s hope this debacle does not result in so large a “U” turn that the government weakens its resolve to tackle illegal migration. They are between a rock and a hard place at the moment and I fear that political expediency may triumph over the need to be consistent and fair in exercise of immigration controls due to the amount of press coverage this has had. I have my doubts that Amber Rudd has the necessary competence and/or integrity to deliver this. It’s a big bug bear of mine that the person best up to the job of Home Secretary is Dominic Grieve and he was kicked out of the cabinet in 2014- most probably because he could be guaranteed to tell Theresa May and the rest of the cabinet where they were going wrong when he was the Attorney General and Theresa May was Home Secretary.

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 11:02 PM

 

You will have to forgive me for it is too late for me to absorb everything you have said in your last post. I believe you and I are almost on the same page Paul. In no way do I seek to diminish the severe hardship and injustice that some people have experienced. I take some comfort from the fact that we are fortunate to live in a mature democracy in which the failings of any government are made public. That enables us to make informed and free choices about who should get our vote the next time around.

A democracy which has badly failed British citizens on an unprecedented scale.

 

 

Violet1956 - 2018-04-26 12:01 PM

 

I read in the paper today that 1300 “Windrush” type cases have been identified in the last week. It remains to be seen if all are genuine and hopefully the demands made for evidence by the Home Office will now be more reasonable. The culture of disbelief that has been allowed to reign in the Home Office has to change. It clearly resulted from the high number of people making false claims to be entitled to stay in the UK on a wide spectrum of bases. That said, the sins of the disingenuous shouldn’t be visited on the innocent. Let’s hope this debacle does not result in so large a “U” turn that the government weakens its resolve to tackle illegal migration. They are between a rock and a hard place at the moment and I fear that political expediency may triumph over the need to be consistent and fair in exercise of immigration controls due to the amount of press coverage this has had. I have my doubts that Amber Rudd has the necessary competence and/or integrity to deliver this. It’s a big bug bear of mine that the person best up to the job of Home Secretary is Dominic Grieve and he was kicked out of the cabinet in 2014- most probably because he could be guaranteed to tell Theresa May and the rest of the cabinet where they were going wrong when he was the Attorney General and Theresa May was Home Secretary.

Rudd is stubbornly refusing to resign and May won't sack her because she's her main ally. Rudd is shielding May from the flak

 

Despite Rudd's denial yesterday to the Select Committee over 'targets' this proves she was lying....or at best simply had no clue was was going on in her own department.

 

The Home Office did set targets for the voluntary removal of illegal immigrants, it has emerged.

 

A 2015 report shows the department set a target of 12,000 voluntary departures in 2015/16, up from 7,200 in 2014/15.

https://news.sky.com/story/home-office-did-set-targets-for-voluntary-removal-of-illegal-immigrants-11346834

 

Questions need asking as to how and why legal British citizen immigrants got snared up with illegal immigrants. But to deny there had been no 'targets' set was simply untrue.

 

The 'guesstimated' numbers of 'Windrush' (using that in a broad context) is said to be around 50,000. So when government make an almighty screw up over that amount......how the hell can they be trusted to process three million EU citizens living in UK?

http://uk.businessinsider.com/fears-of-discrimination-and-chaos-grow-over-the-uks-plan-to-register-3-million-eu-citizens-ahead-of-brexit-2018-2

 

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/james-chapman-give-vote-uk-eu-nationals/

 

https://www.the3million.org.uk/open-letter

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-26 12:01 PM

 

I read in the paper today that 1300 “Windrush” type cases have been identified in the last week. It remains to be seen if all are genuine and hopefully the demands made for evidence by the Home Office will now be more reasonable. The culture of disbelief that has been allowed to reign in the Home Office has to change. It clearly resulted from the high number of people making false claims to be entitled to stay in the UK on a wide spectrum of bases. That said, the sins of the disingenuous shouldn’t be visited on the innocent. Let’s hope this debacle does not result in so large a “U” turn that the government weakens its resolve to tackle illegal migration. They are between a rock and a hard place at the moment and I fear that political expediency may triumph over the need to be consistent and fair in exercise of immigration controls due to the amount of press coverage this has had. I have my doubts that Amber Rudd has the necessary competence and/or integrity to deliver this. It’s a big bug bear of mine that the person best up to the job of Home Secretary is Dominic Grieve and he was kicked out of the cabinet in 2014- most probably because he could be guaranteed to tell Theresa May and the rest of the cabinet where they were going wrong when he was the Attorney General and Theresa May was Home Secretary.

 

You forgot this bit ;-) ...........

 

"A dedicated helpline set up last week has received more than 1,300 calls about potential Windrush cases, with 91 appointments booked and 23 cases resolved so far."

 

So the molehill currently stands at 23 does it not? :-| ...........

 

 

[Bulletguy]

pelmetman - 2018-04-26 3:33 PM

 

Violet1956 - 2018-04-26 12:01 PM

 

I read in the paper today that 1300 “Windrush” type cases have been identified in the last week. It remains to be seen if all are genuine and hopefully the demands made for evidence by the Home Office will now be more reasonable. The culture of disbelief that has been allowed to reign in the Home Office has to change. It clearly resulted from the high number of people making false claims to be entitled to stay in the UK on a wide spectrum of bases. That said, the sins of the disingenuous shouldn’t be visited on the innocent. Let’s hope this debacle does not result in so large a “U” turn that the government weakens its resolve to tackle illegal migration. They are between a rock and a hard place at the moment and I fear that political expediency may triumph over the need to be consistent and fair in exercise of immigration controls due to the amount of press coverage this has had. I have my doubts that Amber Rudd has the necessary competence and/or integrity to deliver this. It’s a big bug bear of mine that the person best up to the job of Home Secretary is Dominic Grieve and he was kicked out of the cabinet in 2014- most probably because he could be guaranteed to tell Theresa May and the rest of the cabinet where they were going wrong when he was the Attorney General and Theresa May was Home Secretary.

 

You forgot this bit ;-) ...........

 

"A dedicated helpline set up last week has received more than 1,300 calls about potential Windrush cases, with 91 appointments booked and 23 cases resolved so far."

 

So the molehill currently stands at 23 does it not? :-| ...........

That's still 23 too many and 23 who should never have had to go through the indignity of having their cases 'resolved'. Just as there should never have been any need for 'appointments'. You seem to have lost sight of the fact we are talking about British citizens.....not 'illegals' and dismissing the matter as 'mountain, molehill, hysteria' is crass and absurd.

[antony1969]

23 ??? ... Lordy my

[Bulletguy]

 

Finally after 44 years of working and paying his taxes, Albert Thompson will now get the cancer treatment wrongly denied to him and being asked to pay £54,000.

 

May and her cohorts should hang their heads in shame.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/apr/24/windrush-scandal-albert-thompson-gets-cancer-treatment-date

[antony1969]

Imagine how our 260.000 UK Jews are feeling at the moment , many of them high earning tax payers ... Corbyns Labour Government in waiting ready to inflict pain and misery on them ... Thats real discrimination ... Vile racists ... Its how it started in Germany

[Brian Kirby]

Violet1956 - 2018-04-25 8:56 AM

 

https://fullfact.org/immigration/windrush-generation/

 

I found this which throws some light on some of the issues. There are over half a million Commonwealth-born people living in the UK who arrived before 1971. All we hear about a number much much smaller than that who have had problems proving their status/right of abode. Interestingly Mr Goodhart said on the channel 4 programme that the issue about the destruction of landing cards being an impediment to the people who arrived on the Windrush is a red-herring because as they were British they wouldn't have had to fill them out.

Thanks for the link, Veronica. It started a hare running which led to this Wiki entry: http://tinyurl.com/y7kukwwz I think I now begin to understand why the Windrush Generation may have got into the predicaments in which they now find themselves, and to some extent why Home Office ministers and staff may have failed to properly interpret their legal status!

 

It seems to me to need a team of specialist lawyers to be on tap to establish the timelines and sequences of events, and which Acts were in force at the relevant times, to determine who is entitled to which form of British Citizenship.

 

Until I read this, I had thought it must be reasonably clear - now I'm convinced that clarity is almost the only thing lacking! I don't blame the author of the Wiki piece, it is just an appalling legal maze with pitfalls for the unwary scattered all across it.

 

I don't think any normal mortal should be expected to negotiate its twists and turns without specialist legal guidance.

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2018-04-26 6:19 PM

 

Imagine how our 260.000 UK Jews are feeling at the moment , many of them high earning tax payers ... Corbyns Labour Government in waiting ready to inflict pain and misery on them ... Thats real discrimination ... Vile racists ... Its how it started in Germany

Has May stripped them of their rightful citizenship, dragged them out of work and thrown them into detention centres for deportation?

 

That's how it started in Nazi Germany, They've just infiltrated UK, re-branded themselves as the Conservative party and chose another race of people to detain and deport.

 

Vile racists indeed.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2018-04-26 6:54 PM

 

antony1969 - 2018-04-26 6:19 PM

 

Imagine how our 260.000 UK Jews are feeling at the moment , many of them high earning tax payers ... Corbyns Labour Government in waiting ready to inflict pain and misery on them ... Thats real discrimination ... Vile racists ... Its how it started in Germany

Has May stripped them of their rightful citizenship, dragged them out of work and thrown them into detention centres for deportation?

 

That's how it started in Nazi Germany, They've just infiltrated UK, re-branded themselves as the Conservative party and chose another race of people to detain and deport.

 

Vile racists indeed.

 

Thought I mentioned Corbyns Government in waiting ... Quarter of a million Jews terrified for their future compared to how many Windrush victims ... Its Germany all over again ... I for one wont sit back and let vile racists in the Labour Party scare our decent jewish community out of the country